russian weapon strikes a nato territory or nato soldier and kills them or destroys them, i mean, i can't see how it wouldn't trigger it. an article 5 to be clear is not an automatic declaration of war. there's still steps that have to be taken. it would be considered an attack on all and the risk of expanding into war is very great. >> neil: general, should we have a more unequivocal response if the russians you chemical weapons? they say, the russians, that it's a plant and a threat that the west is hoisting on the global community that they're not entertaining. if they did, would that respond necessarily lead to a war? that widens. >> neil, i have to tell you, i would argue vehemently however cold and dispassionate that they seem that we cannot, cannot use lethal means in a response.