Now behind him . I dont really know. He responded when i said get ahold of the secretary, he said i agree and i never knew whether he reached out to the secretary or not. That was sort of the end of that. At one point in your text you said lets get on the phone and you said you are an individual that doesnt like to walk through these issues on texts when you can talk about it on the telephone, correct . I say talk it on the telephone correct . I say that to everybody when something becomes more substantive and that then a few lines of text. The speaker did you talk with ambassador taylor . I dont recall whether we spoke after that or he called the secretary. Basically mr. Castor wanted to get the notion across that i had gone as far as i can go with this. You are the ambassador and you need to pick up the ball and run with it at this point. Okay. Just getting back to the regular channel, did anyone else expressed concerns to you about this socalled irregular
channel . Im not or how somebody could characterize something as an irregular channel when youre talking to the president of the United States, Secretary Of State, the National Security advisor, Chief Of Staff of the white house, the secretary of energy, i dont know how that is irregular if a bunch of folks that are not in the channel are a great for some reason for not being included i dont know how they could consider us to be the irregular channel and they need to be the regular channel when its the leadership the makes the decisions. So the concerns raised were never brought to a head . They were never raised. They were never raised. Nobody sat back off of ukraine, this is dangerous, you are doing something that is untoward, we have concerns, there was a bad phone call on july 25th. There is talk about a Drug Cocktail or something. Nobody ever said that to me. By phone, text, or email. I dont remember anybody sounding any alarm bell because of course had somebody mentioned it i would have sat up and taken notice. Everyones hair was unfired but nobody decided to talk to us. When you talk in your statement about in the absence of any credible explanation for the suspension of a dilator came to believe it was your guess that the presumption of security aid would not occur until there was a Public Statement from ukraine confirming the investigations into 2016. I believe at this point you said you believed everyone knew this, is that correct . I think once that political article broke it started making the rounds that if you
cant get a white house meeting without this statement what makes you think you are going to get 400 million check. That was my presumption. But you had no evidence to prove that, correct . That is correct. You stated that you havent been able to access your records, is that correct . Not all of them. There are lots of notes, records, readouts of calls and i cant get to them. Youve also stated that you dont take notes, right . I dont take notes but there are a lot of others out there. You freely admit that when asked in your deposition we have a list of all the times you said you dont recall, its like two pages long. On a lot of these questions
there is no wants, ambiguities, we dont have records, we dont have notes, we dont of court recollections, correct . It is situational things that trigger memory. Especially when i am dealing with the European Union, im dealing with the 28 member countries, im dealing with other countries that are not in the European Union that are part of my mandate, im dealing with a white house leadership, there is a lot of stuff to juggle. As i said in my Opening Statement, a phone call for me with the president of the United States or the president of fillin the blank country while people who get a call like that maybe once onceinalifetime, a call like that might be very memorable they might remember every thinking about it. Im doing that all day long and im not saying it in a way of being bragging or anything like that but it is part of my routine day. All of these calls and meetings with very important people tend to sort of blend together until
i have someone that can show me what we discussed, what the subject was, then all of a sudden it comes back. We are trying to get to the facts and find out what is actually reliable. Bill taylor kept notes, he brought a notebook in his pocket and he held it up and he said when im not at my desk and im on the phone i use this notebook. When i met my desk i use a notebook. George kent said he wrote innumerable memos to the file. Catherine mccraw she testified that she didnt believe george notes would be accurate. We have all of this back and forth but as we get to the end here you dont have records, you dont have your notes because you didnt take notes. You dont have a lot of recollections. This is the trifecta of unreliability, isnt that true . What i am trying to do today is to use the limited information that i have to be as
forthcoming as possible with you and the rest of the committee. As these recollections have been refreshed by a subsequent testimony, by some texts and emails i have now had access to, i feel i filled in a lot of blanks. A lot of it is speculation and your gas and we are talking but impeachment of the president of the United States of the evidence must be pretty good. I have been very clear as to when i was presuming and i was presuming on the aide. On the other things, mr. Castor, i did have some texts that i read from. When it comes to those i will rely on those texts because i dont have any reason to believe that those texts were falsely sent or that there is some subterfuge there. They are what they are and they say what they say. Thank you sir. Thank you. Now the gentleman is expired we will now go to a second snap round up 30 minutes. Mr. Volker, i have a few questions before i turn it back over to mr. Goldman. You testified in response to my colleagues in the minority something along the lines of a lot of people did not make the connection between burisma and biden. A lot of people have real difficulty understanding that. Morrison testified that i think it took him all of doing a Google Search to find out this is the significance of burisma, it involves the bidens. You are saying during all this time up until the call you never made the connection between burisma and the bidens, you just thought the president and Rudy Giuliani were interested in this one particular Ukrainian Company . Again, my role, mr. Chairman, was just to get the meeting. I understand that but my question is are you saying that for months and months and everything Rudy Giuliani was saying on tv and all the
discussions of Rudy Giuliani that you never put burisma together with the bidens . I didnt and i wasnt paying attention to what mr. Giuliani was singing tv, i was talking to them directly. Let me ask you this, volker testified yesterday to a similar epiphany for a lack of better word. This is what he said. In hindsight i now understand that others saw the idea of investigating possible corruption involving the Ukrainian Company, burisma, as equivalent to investigating former Vice President biden. I saw them as very different, the former being appropriated unremarkable, the latter being unacceptable. In retrospect i should have seen that connection differently and had i done so i wouldve raised my own objections. Does that sum up your views as well . It does. I think you are asked a
question with a bit of an incorrect premise by my colleagues in the minority, fiona hill, saying that referring to a drug deal between you and mr. Mulvaney. It was mr. Bolton that made the comment that he didnt want to be part of any drug deal that ambassador sondland and mulvaney were kicking up. No one thinks they are talking about a literal drug deal, or a Drug Cocktail. The import i think of investors comments are quite clear that he believed that this bargain come of this quid pro quo as you describe it over a meeting, the investigations to get the meeting was not something he wanted to be a part of. What i want to ask you about is he makes reference in that drug deal to a drug deal kicked up by you and mulvaney. Its the reference to mulvaney
that i want ask you about. Youve testified that mulvaney was aware of this quid pro quo in this condition that ukrainians had to meet that is announcing this investigation to get the white house meeting, is that correct . A lot of people were aware of it. Including mr. Mulvaney . Correct. And including the Secretary Of State . Correct. Have you seen the Chief Of Staffs Press Conference in which she acknowledged that the military aid was withheld in part because of a desire to get that 2016 investigation you talked about . I dont the guys hot live i saw it later. You saw him acknowledge publicly what you have confirmed as well that mr. Mulvaney understood that two plus two equals four. Is that right . Again, i didnt know that the
aide was conclusively tied. I was presuming he was in a position to say yes it was her know it wasnt. And he said yes it was, did he not . Yes he did. Mr. Goldman. Think you chairman and thank you again ambassador sondland. We appreciate your efforts to refresh your recollection to the documents and we understand, we share your frustration in not having the documents to help guide this investigation. We do appreciate those efforts. One of the documents that you provided to us goes back to the conversation you and the chairman were having about mr. Mr. Mulvaney. You had been trying for some time before the July 25th Call to set up that call is that correct . To set up the call between President Trump and president zelensky, yes. I want to show you an email
that you referenced in your Opening Statement that is a jul. Who is this from . It looks like, is it from me . I dont know. Its from me to the group. Who is the group . People mentioned on the email. Blair, cannot, mccormick, mulvaney, perry, pompeo. Who is robert blair . I believe he is a deputy Chief Of Staff or an advisor to the Chief Of Staff. Youve already told us that who is Brian Mccormick . He was the Chief Of Staff for Secretary Perry. And then we see mr. Mulvaney and Secretary Perry and secretary
pompeo. Can you read what he wrote on july 19th of this group please . He is prepared that he intends to run a fully transparent investigation and will turn over every stone. We would greatly appreciate prior to sunday so we can put out to me differ a friendly call no details prior to the ukraine election on sunday. So sunday the 21st was the date of the parliamentary election in ukraines come is that right . He intends to raw you will turn over every stone, what do you mean there . Im referring to the burisma and the 2016 dnc server investigations. Later that evening Secretary Perry response just to you and Brian Mccormick saying mick
just confirmed the cult being set up for tomorrow by nsc, rp. Then a little later mr. Mulvaney replies to all saying i asked nsc to set it up for tomorrow. Were these the only responses that you received this email . I dont know. If i have them i would show them. I dont know. No one wrote back to you and said what are you talking about in terms of these investigations and turning over every stone . There was a chain and i dont know if it was a part of this email or a subsequent email i believed ambassador bolton pushed back and said he did not want a call to president zelensky made by President Trump until after the parliamentary elections. That would explain why it was mute from the next day until the 25th, is that right . But a Master Bolton is not on this email is he . I dont think he is. You were asked by mr. Castor is there any other key witnesses who might be able to help with our investigation. You mentioned Brian Mccormick the Chief Of Staff for Secretary Perry. I did. You are aware that the committee subpoenaed him, are you not . And he refused to come testified. I was not. Where you also aware that mr. Mulvaney was subpoenaed by the committee and refused to come testify . I did read that in the newspaper. Are you also aware that robert blair was subpoenaed and refused to testify. I did read that. Secretary perry was subpoenaed and refused to testify. Would you include them as well as Secretary Pompeos key witnesses died would be able to provide some Additional Information on this inquiry . I think they would. This was not the first time, as you indicated, that
mr. Mulvaney heard about these investigations into burisma and the 2016 election, is that right . I dont know what mr. Mulvaney heard or didnt hear, i think there has been a huge amount of exaggeration over my contact with mr. Mulvaney. It was actually quite limited. He certainly didnt, it certainly indicated a familiarity with what you are talking about in this email. I think mr. Mulvaney was in the may 23rd briefing with President Trump. I dont remember because there were people thinking behind find us went coming and going when we were sitting in front of President Trumps desk. You said you dont have a recollection of saying Referencing Mulvaney in the julr boltons office, is that right . I dont recall. So when both of you on a hill and colonel van mint testified
that in response to a ukrainian official i in the July 10th Meeting about scheduling a white house visit that you said i spoke with mr. Mulvaney and it will be scheduled after they announced these investigations. Do you have any reason to dispute that characterization . I dont have any reason to agree or dispute, i just dont remember. They just remembered and they both went does speak to the nsc Legal Advisor about it you would trust that whatever they relate to the nsc Legal Advisor would likely be an accurate reflection . I trust that they related to the nsc Legal Advisor, i dont remember whether i set it and i dont know which conversation i can ive had very limited conversations with mr. Mulvaney. This email indicates that you spoke to president zelensky and were relaying what he said a very senior officials, is that
right . Which email again . The July 19th Email where you said the subject as i talked to zelensky just now. I got it. Was there is some sort of assurance that president zelensky needed to provide about what he would say to President Trump in order just to get the phone call . I think that part was for a bowl and were a lot of Communications Going around back and forth with the ukrainians and that is when someone, and i dont remember who, came up with the idea of a Draft Statement so there would be no misunderstanding about what in fact the ukrainians would say and would be willing to say that we could rely on and negotiate something on a piece of paper. The place you in time we are going to get to that Draft Statement which was in august. This was in july 19th before the July 25th Call. Do you remember whether there was a need from any of the white house officials or any other National Security officials for president zelensky to provide some assurance of what he would say to President Trump before a phone call, not the meeting but a phone call was scheduled . There was initially a apparently a condition, but that condition was obviously dropped because the phone call took place and there was no such statement made. The phone call took place as you set on the 25th of july. When you said there was no such statement that took place what do you mean . The ukrainians never made their Public Statement prior to the phone call on the 25th of july. We are not talking but a Public Statement. What i was asking is whether president zelensky needed to relate to you or the other
american officials that he would assure President Trump that he would do these investigations in a phone call. In my email, i obviously had just spoken with him and he, being zelensky, and he said that he was prepared to receive the call and he would make those assurances to President Trump on that call and then presumably that would then lead to the white house meeting. You had been discussing this phone call for several weeks now, is that right . Yes i think with volker, with perry, with giuliani through volker and perry. And then right after you send this email assuring the others that he will discuss the investigations and would turn over every stone, the burisma in 2016 election investigations, mr. Mulvaney responded that he asked the set up the call for
the next day, is that right . Thats what it says. Now lets go to the Press Statement you were discussing in august. Yo