Italy. President trump is arguing the only reason the number is so high compared to the rest of the world is because other countries are so far behind us in terms of testing. That does not explain the deaths, of course. He is talking specifically about the cases, obviously. Now dr. Anthony fauci of the covid19 Task Force Says he is being told that everyone who needs a test should be able to get one by late may or early june. This is predominantly admiral, who is telling us who have an increased production. By the time we get to those months, we should have what we need. Im always the skeptic in the group, and i always say, okay, i hear you, i believe you, but lets see what happens. Harris this is outnumbered. Im harris faulkner. Here today, melissa francis. Fox news contributor, lisa boothe. Fox news contributor, jessica tarlov. Joining us today, fox news medical attribute or, physician, and professor of Public Health at Johns Hopkins university, dry makary. He is outnumbered. Dr. Makary, im going to come to you first on this, because we have been hearing the promise of more testing for widths just call it months now. At least a couple of them. So, we wait for that. But these numbers are growing. May be part of it in terms of the confirmed cases is testing, but the death toll is rising. Why . Dr. Makary first of all, thank you for calling the 1 million cases confirmed cases. I think we need more clarification like that. These are simply people who have been tested. We know about 21 of new yorkers have been exposed, based on Antibody Tests. So i dont want people to be alarmed when they say the cases surge. Its a number of testing units, and we will see that. Cvs is launching a thousand different sites where people can get tested get tested nationwide. We heard that from the white house. You know, im just of the opinion, harris, that testing is not the silver bullet. I know its a minority opinion and Public Health, but the notion that somehow if you test every american five times a week we are going to somehow conquer this, i just dont think that is one of the tools in the toolbox. Harris before i open this up to the rest of the panel, that is just an important point to make. I could test negative on monday and then become infected somehow between now and thursday, and the test, of course, its not clairvoyant. So it is a rolling thing, and i guess thats why there should be or is, i dont know. I shouldnt say should, are not in your shoes. Im not a doctor. More on Antibody Testing. Dr. Makary the value of testing is greatest in the earliest stages of the pandemic, because its used for contact tracing. Quite honestly, if you test positive, it doesnt change our recommendation or medical advice most of the time. If youre not changing our advice, why are we testing so frequently . Its useful for contact tracing. Ceos tell me, hey, i want to test all my employees. I tell them, what are you going to do the information . What are you going to do in 3 of your place has positive, than what . Harris lisa boothe, good to see you on the program today. Im curious, just your overall reaction to where we are right now, watching this on a daily basis as we all do together. Lisa i 100 agree with what the doctor says. Theres been a lot of quibbling over the numbers. For instance, surpassing 1 million cases. Thats not reflective of what percentage of the population here in the United States actually has the coronavirus. As the daughter pointed the doctor pointed out, whenyou, almost 25 of the population has tested positive for the antibodies. So we are quibbling over numbers that really arent real. Were also missing with a true mortality rate is. Remember, a lot of the Public Policy decisions that have been made here in the United States were based off of when we thought the mortality rate was about 2030 times higher than what weve found it to be. When you look at newark testing, the serological testing, when you look at the study done out of the university of southern california, or stanford, or even in miamidade county, weve found out the mortality rate is actually a lot less than we originally thought. I think as a country and as the media, also among Public Health officials, we need to rethink and reexamine some of the decisions that have been made in light of this new data and information. Harris you know, one number that is constant, and its constantly going up, are all of the people who are perishing, lisa. I just want to followup with you. That number is real. It has now surpassed the amount of death and destruction, human destruction, that we saw our men and women who were killed in the war in vietnam. That is very real. Lisa can i respond to that real quick . I think my bringing up these data points is not saying that what we are seeing going on in the country is not real. Thats not saying that every life does not have value in the United States. That is something that makes america unique from other countries, because we care about human life. What it does mean, the information that we are first relying upon, when its been wrong to this degree, potentially by 2030 times, or even in the instance, the case is missing by 80 times, the amount of real cases that are in the United States, the actual people infected, that does mean we need to take a step back and reexamine things, making sure were making the right decision. So i dont want my words to be taken out of context or people to get the wrong idea about what im saying. Harris well, thank you for that. You and i know each other so well, so i know that. But i just wanted people to hear when we hear the reference points of wars, of course. When you and i cried together about the loss, that is just so raw and so real. Its easy to become a little bit detached when youre looking at percentages. But having the right information is the key. Thats what were talking about. Now maybe we can catch up on that. China certainly didnt help us. Jessica, what are your overall thoughts today . Jessica well, im glad youre having a conversation about the fact that every life matters and all of this. I think its why so many people were incensed when they heard the Lieutenant Governor of texas, for instance, saying that since seniors might be willing to give up their lives they are. Theyre on their way out anyway, and that we need to focus on keeping the young Population Healthy and the economy going. If we sacrifice some older folks, thats just fine. As someone who has some very valued older folks in their lives, i dont agree there. The testing issue is critical, as you lead the segment with. Weve been talking about this for months. I think it is problematic that there is such a high level of disinformation coming from the most powerful man in the country and in the world, the president , about the testing situation. He said just yesterday that well have 5 million tests available a day. His own testing chief has contradicted that. Jared kushner, who is in charge of coronavirus and settling peace in the middle east at the same time was on fox friends this morning saying he believes we have enough testing to start reopening the country. I have not heard any medical professionals say that. I know we have a doctor on the panel, maybe he can pipe in about that. But there is harris if you were listening to dr. Makary im going to step in here, because i hear a question and i want dr. Makary to be able to answer. Dr. Makary, it is important to emphasize, as you did, that its not all about the testing, real quickly. Dr. Makary yeah, its one tool in the toolbox. We need to do it selectively in places that are most highrisk. We know from the wall street journal analysis that as many as 22 of all deaths in early april were in Nursing Homes and longterm care facilities. Thats where we need to put a lot of resources. So we know that the drivers of the spread our travel, mass gatherings, Nursing Homes. But those individuals are the ones we need to put a lot of our energy on and get rid of some of these distracting arguments. Testing is important. I dont deny that. It just has a diminishing role, as you proceed in an epidemic. Harris i love when i hear you talk about that. Responsibility, and so much more we can do. Melissa . Melissa yeah. I mean, if i could just say, i disagree with jessica and the sense that, at least in new york, testing is now officially readily available. They have been sending out emails like crazy from the urgent cares, from city md, from cure, saying jessica im going tomorrow. Melissa i went down myself yesterday, and they are giving out Antibody Tests. The woman in front of me was there with eight of her employees. She wanted to reopen her business, because she said she is going out of business and her family is going to lose their home. She brought her employees in herself to get the Antibody Test so that she could be sure that they wouldnt be infecting her customers and that they werent sick themselves, and that they were well enough to come back. She was getting all of her employees tested. They were happy to give all of those folks tests, as well as myself and everybody else that was in line. So i would say that i saw firsthand, yes, its anecdotal, but its happening all over the city. I saw for myself firsthand how people were taking their lives and their income into their own hands, because, as she said, she was in very grave danger with her business and her family, and she had those folks there that she was paying to have her employees tested. Paying their copay to get things back up and running. I dont know. Jessica im thrilled about that. Melissa i would venture that its getting a lot better. Harris melissa, thats what i had brought with the doctor the Antibody Testing alongside all of this. Because the value of knowing where you are with that today versus an ebb and flow situation, okay, i tested negative for covid19 on monday, as he said. But then youre positive on thursday, nobody knows. Hes going to get tested twice or three times a week . The Antibody Test and gives us a little different perspective. Jessica, real quick . Jessica i just want to say im thrilled that there is readily available testing in new york city. Im going tomorrow. We know this has been the top of Andrew Cuomos priority list. He has managed this outbreak across the state. Weve been particularly hard hit. Its problematic to hear that, across the nation, testing is readily available. We have governors all over saying thats absolute not the case. Harris i think youre talking about two different things. I do. I think we have you guys are talking past yourselves. Melissa is making a great point about the fact that you can find out whether or not youve already had it. Jessica in new york city. Harris how else would you get them . Theres no other way you cant go out and purchase them. That is much more readily available, and maybe of equal value right now, just in terms of where we are in the journey. Your doctor may heard dr. Makarysaying the wn closing, but maybe the emphasisw it really helps us contain the situation might be changing in a significant way. So i think you guys melissa brought up a beautiful point. Jessica, youre talking pastor. Were talking about two different tests. I hear you both. Im going to scoot. They say dont blame us. New yorks governor and new york citys mayor pushing back against critics who say they should have responded to the pandemic sooner. How they are now fighting back, and whether this is the time to play the blame game. I dont personally put a lot of time into dwelling on the past when i have people to serve right now. Its a new day for veterans all across america. Home values are up, and Mortgage Rates are at record lows. Thats good news for veterans with va loans. Thats me. By using your va streamline refi benefit, one call to newday usa can save you 2,000 a year. Thats me. Theres no Income Verification, no appraisal, and no out of pocket costs. Thats me. Put your va home loan benefits to good use. Call my team at newday usa. Melissa new yorks leaders pushing back against criticism that they should have acted sooner, responding that a coronavirus pandemic and stepper briefings. Both mayor de blasio and Governor Andrew Cuomo deflecting blame with the governor asking why various other entities did not sound the alarm sooner. Where was the whole International Health community . Where was the National Host of experts . The w. H. O. , the nih, the cdc, the whole alphabet soup of agencies. Where was everyone . Where was the Intelligence Community with the briefings . Saying, this isnt china. Governors dont do global pandemics. Melissa lisa, while those may be valid points, i look at specific examples. For example, in los angeles and california, the mayors and governors have partnered with fema to get fema money to move their homeless population, who is infected, at risk of infecting other people, to move them inside to vacant hotels. In new york, the new York City Council has been talking about doing this, but they say the governor and the mayor havent done anything, and theyve had more time to just copy this very simple thing. Get fema involved. Its femas money, its there for the using. Instead, you have mayor de blasio doing things like making videos about why you shouldnt drink bleach instead of picking up the phone and calling fema. Do you think its fair to criticize, at least mayor de blasio if not Governor Cuomo . Lisa i think its fair to criticize everyone come in the sense that we really have made some of the wrong Public Policy decisions as a country. Both on the local, state, and her level. Particularly as we get new information from the data points i brought up earlier on the show. Or you look at someone like professor israel, an israeli professor from tel aviv. Sorry, i wanted to make sure i had his right name, from tel aviv university, who has studied the coronavirus across the world and has found that regardless of the measures being put in place, the various pate dog peaks at six weeks. Perhaps we should have made different decisions, making social distancing a priority and protecting the vulnerable. Period maybe letting other people go back to work. I really think it is so imperative, as we get Additional Data points, we start changing the way we are looking at this. Whats happening in the country, which is dangerous, anyone who brings up data points that arent what the groupthink, basically what everyone else is saying, anything that is outside of what is deemed the doctrine of the media, you get criticized. Or those individuals get criticized. We see that in the instance of stanford protect don my professor and others who become different data points and question some of the decisions that have been made. Melissa dr. Makary, what are your thoughts on what she said . Dr. Makary i agree, and theres a lot of warning signs that many people should have noticed. In fact, there was a community, a small group of us, who were trying to sound the alarm for a few months. If i could have things back, i would say that i wish two things would have been different. Number one, the fda regulator that required the testing lab in Washington State to send a cd rom of their application after the electronically submitted, with the files burned on it, that is the kind of ridiculousness that cost us a valuable two months. Its all written up in the dispatch. The other thing i wish we would have had is dr. Anthony fauci saying something from januar january 15th to march 15th. For two months, he never once said, we need to expand hospitals, get ready to stop nonessential travel, stock up on ppe, develop contingency plans. Maybe get ready to stop schools. Switch to deliveries for restaurants. All of these things were important, and many of us in Public Health were running around begging mardi gras to not take place, begging the mayor of boston to cancel sxsw, asking the ncaa to cancel. I think we should have heard a larger which meant larger western Anthony Fauci those two months. After all, he does advise every policymaker in d. C. Melissa wow. Jessica, what do you think about that . Jessica i wouldve loved to have heard that. Im a big fan of Governor Cuomo. We talked offline about how comforting those press conferences have been, certainly when all this was starting. This plenty of blame to put at the feet of certainly new york citys mayor, de blasio, who was encouraging people to go out and keep patronizing local businesses just days before we had the shelterinplace order. Or stay at home, whatever they called it. And Governor Cuomo, theres been a few big articles saying, for instance, Washington State listened to the scientists whereas new york didnt. Im glad he shouted out officials in california like san franciscos mayor and governor gavin newsom, who have done an incredible job ensuring that they population of 40 Million People in that state and i think right now they have about 45,000 cases. I know there are hundreds of thousands more, people who have been infected and didnt get a test. When you look at those numbers and look at the harrowing numbers from new york state and specifically new york city, you do start to think, if they knew on the west coast they shut down weaker than we did, as we heard in san francisco, the people dropped the ball. And we would have complied. Thats the one thing ive been heartened to see, how many people are Walking Around new york city with masks on. That we have been sheltering in place and not violating the rules. I do think there is some blame to put on mayor de blasio, who last weekend even commuted to brooklyn to go for a walk in the park. Something they are telling us absolutel