Lawmakers in both parties pursue reform bills in the wake of George Floyds death at the hands of police in minneapolis and following the shooting death of Rayshard Brooks at an atlanta fast food drivethrough last weekend. Those events and others sparking nation wide protests and calls by some to defund the police. Ray kelly joins me now. Welcome, commissioner kelly. Good to be with you, paul. Paul you have seen these now attempts to bring some reform as they say from washington but policing is a local function. What do you make of these National Reforms . Well, obviously they feel like they have to do something and the senate and the house agree on a few things, which i think theyll go forward on, but they disagree on a lot of areas. They agree on body cameras, although they approach it differently. They agree on eliminating a chokehold, they agree on having a 19 Member Commission on the status of black boys and men. But after that, they disagree quite a bit. Obviously, the biggest area of concern or contention is the elimination of qualified immunity which the democrats are pushing for and as tim scott has said, that is a nonstarter as far as hes concerned in the senate. They also are arguing over noknock warrants. Democrats want to eliminate them totally. The republicans want to keep them in some shape or form. Also were talking about databases, the democrats want very significant database, basically disciplinary records ofof all Police Officers in the country, the use of force database. That is not something in the cards as far as the republicans are concerned. And the democrats are pushing for sort of a certification process in each state that is based on president obamas 21st Century Policing reform package. Paul now, so thats kind of where we are. Paul so well see how all those go ahead. Heres a concern that i would have and if i were a police commissioner, look, this is a local job. The federal government, how do they know what new york needs as opposed to whator atlanta needs, as opposed to what a local Police Department in indiana needs. Do you really want the federal government coming in and saying heres the checklist of all the things you must do in order to get any federal money . No. You dont want that. Youre right. Its a local issue. Although i can tell you right now in new york city, we have i think huge concerns with mayor de blasio who has talked openly nlabout defunding police, talked about defunding as much as 1 billion from the police budget. Youre right, it is a local issue. And the federal government can only do so much. They g do it through trying to leveraging the grants, the money they hand out to localities. Each locality is different. People want their own Police Departments. You look herehe in new jersey, theres almost 300 Police Departments in the state of new jersey. Why . Because people want n that local control. Paul right. So i guess my question is, is there a danger that these federal rules become too prescriptive and they misunderstand what are the local requirements in any given city . Yes, there is a danger. Theyre trying to bigfoot it now. Obviously, theyre using the horrific murder of george floyd as the event thats going to open the door to a lot of these things. But the federal government doesnt have that power as we know, that doesnt mean theyre not going to try, theyre not going to use the bully pulpit to changes on local governments. Paul how big a problem from your experience was the issue of collective bargaining . That is, the police Union Negotiates a contract with the city. It includes a lot of appellate processes and due process protections for officers who are accused of excessive use of force. Does it make does that process make it much harder to actually dismiss problem officers . Oh, no question about it. Very difficult to dismiss problem officers. As a matter of fact, the Police Department is often left out of the negotiations. Police management is left out. Theres a lot of political concerns that are involved in negotiating a police contract. But, yeah, definitely excludes protecting the rights of people, maybe 5 , people that shouldnt be in the Police Department. The union spent 90 of their efforts to protect those people. So it is a real challenge for Police Manager all over the country. Paul is that the single biggest problem in your view in terms of actually creating a culture of proper behavior in the police . Well, i think theres several issues. Id like to see Higher Standards as far as how you bring people onboard. Id like to see a major change in the psychological testing thats done. And also, you need authority to get rid of those problem people which can be changed in the state legislature. Its something that can be addressed. But the unions have a great deal of power in state legislature, certainly here in new york, in albany. Paul commissioner kelly, appreciate you coming in and well be watching as this moves ahead. Thanks for coming. When we come back, senate whrepublicans unveil their own Police Reformm bill setting up a show ofdown with democrats on capitol hill. Panel takes a closer look at the dualing plan, dual ing plan, next. Our democratic friends if they want to make a lot, not just try to make a point, i hope theyll join us. Theyll joinnnne open road and telling people that Liberty Mutual customizes your insurance, so you only pay for what you need [squawks] only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. And its mission is to make sleep. Feel. Cool. So, no more night sweats. No more nocturnal baking, or polar ice cap airconditioner mode. Because the tempurpedic breeze delivers superior cooling from cover to core. Helping you sleep cool, all night long. During the tempurpedic summer of sleep, save 500 on all tempurbreeze mattresses. And experience your coolest sleep this summer, on our best breeze savings of the year. Too often were having a discussion in this nation about are you supporting the Law Enforcement community or are you supporting communities of color. This is a false binary choice. If the answer to the question of which side do you support, its i support america. Paul republican senator tim scott of South Carolina unveiling legislation this week to improve policing practices in the United States. Scott framing his plan as a bridge between Law Enforcement and communities of color and urging bipartisan cooperation to make itn law. Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell says the senate will take up the bill next week, setting up a showdown with democrats over just how to tackle Police Reform. Lets bring in our panel, wall street journal journalist, kim strassel, Editorial Board member, Kyle Peterson and senior fellow jason riley. Jason, what do you make of the scott proposal and the competing proposal from the house . Well, the republican proposal is a little milder. They want more data gathering and collection and sharing of this information with other departments. They want more Police Training and so forth. The democrats go a lot further. They want to make it easier to fire Police Officers who misbehave, prosecute those officers as well. And i think thats a little worrisome because it could result in Police Pulling back, becoming less proactive in their dealings with civilians and in some of these minority high crime communities, that could mean that the criminals get the upper hand. Paul and kyle, i guess the thing that the way you do this is federal money, right . All policing is local, run by state and local governments. So you end up with the federal government saying if you want federal money, you must do a, b, c, d and e. Right. Police power is almost went alml power. It shows the limits of the federal role here. Some of the data points show how that could be useful. If you have a problem of an officer in one state or city getting an Excessive Force complaint and getting a job at another department, that might be a real federal role where they could be of use. Paul and kim, Chuck Schumer has already democratic leader, has already said he doesnt think the republican bill he says is adequate for the moment. That suggests that they could atactually try to filibuster the scott proposal and not even allow it to come up for debate and the vote. Do you think that that is likely . I do, un230r unfortunately. The attitude from the beginning of the debate has been that Nancy PelosisHouse Democrats should be able to write the bill, send it to the senate and the senate should rubber stamp it. That seems to remain to be the democrats attitude. Mitch mcconnell has worked hard along with tim scott to push back on that so say were going to have our own bill and we should let the process work here. Dont filibuster it. You pass your product. Democrats in the senate, why dont you try amending what we worked on. Lets see if we can get to something. Pass them both out, go to committee. Thats how the process is supposed to work in washington. I think the pressure for democrats to say that any republican product is problematic is just huge and that seems to be where they are at the moment. Paul how does that play politically, jason . Because schumer probably wouldnt do that unless he felt there was a political advantage to do it. The house is going to pass its bill overwhelmingly with votes. Is this a political winner for the democrats . Im not sure that it is. I think both sides in washington want to look like theyre doing something. I really think that the discussion is focused on policing, its very much wide of the mark, paul. You know, police use of force has been declining rapidly in recent decades. Its down Something Like 90 in some big cities like new york. Police are using their weapons less often, using deadly force less often. The problem in these communities simply is not police behavior. Its criminal behavior. In chicago last year, close to 500 homicides. Three involved Law Enforcement. The idea that we need a National Discussion around policing instead of a National Discussion around the crimes being committed in these neighborhoods and how we can lower the crime rates and therefore lower the number of encounters between low income minority communities and police is baffling to me. Police are involved in 2, 3 of black homicides this year in this country which number around 7,000. Yes, get rid of bad cops and share more data and so forth. That is not really the nub of the problem here. This focus on police is just really a side issue i think. Paul well, the other thing that you wont see in these bills, kim, is anything about collective bargaining which is of course the way Police Unions negotiate with their local governments and theres extensive protections, appeals process for cops who of are disciplined. Many are reaso reinstated even y have long track records of altercations with the public. But thats not going to be in these. Well, look, i mean, we were talking earlier about some of the limits of federalism and limits of what the federal government can do and whether or not some of this shouldnt be left to state and local Police Departments anyway or state and local officials and this is a category where it may not be in the federal bill but there should be pressure continued on state and local officials to address these issues. Some of them are being honest, saying this is the elephant in the room. Because its i hard for democrac politicians to go against their Union Members but a few more honest peoplee have said look, were going to have to address this issue and that when the public is looking about response and responses to this, that ought to be where the first responsibility lays is with these localities and whether or not theyre addressing big issues like that. Paul all right. Thank you all. When we come back, as States Reopen for business, a spike in new coronavirus cases has some calling for aom return to lockdowns. A closer look at whats behind those numbers and how governors should respond. Hey, can i. Hold on one second. Sure. Okay. Okay safe drivers save 40 guys guys check it out. Safe drivers save 40 safe drivers save 40 safe drivers save 40 thats safe drivers save 40 . It is, thats safe drivers save 40 . Hes right there. Its him hes here. Hes right here. Hi hi. Hey thats totally him. Its him thats totally the guy. Safe drivers do save 40 . Click or call for a quote today. Si but what i do count on. Ts anis boost high protein. Rs, and now, theres boost mobility. With key nutrients to help support. Joints, muscles, and bones. Try boost mobility, with added collagen. Yeah. This moving thing never gets any easier. Well, xfinity makes moving super easy. I can transfer my internet and tv service in about a minute. Wow, that is easy. Almost as easy as having those guys help you move. We are those guys. Thats you . The truck adds 10 pounds. In the arms. Okay. Transfer your Service Online in a few easy steps. Now thats simple, easy, awesome. Transfer your service in minutes, making moving with xfinity a breeze. Visit xfinity. Com moving today. Paul at least five states breaking daily records for new coronavirus cases this week, leaving some to call for more lock ofdowns to stop the surge. President trump hosting a round table thursday with governors Business Owners as some states push back against the claim that new infections are thehe result of reopening their economies. So what should we make of the numbers and how should governors respond . Were back with kim strassel and jason riley. So kim, take a state like florida, apples closing some stores here again temporarily. Surging cases. How concerned should we be . Kim well, listen, if you listen to the governors of those states, they make some really good points. Florida, texas, arizona, yes, you are seeing an increase in the number of cases but that has also in some of those states like florida and texas corresponded with a rise in testing. So were finding some cases out there that were harder to find before. And i think the bigger question and what some of these governors are pointing out is remember what the goal of this is. We wanted to kind of minimize and make sure we did not overrun our hospitals. On that metric, things are still looking pretty good. Hospitalization rateses have stayed level or in some places are even falling. Paul jason, one of the interesting things about the florida numbers is the age of the median person who tests positive has fallen in a couple months from 65 to 37. That is good news because it means that as younger people get the virus, theyre less likely to have a serious illness. On the other hand, there does seem to be not just an increase because of testing but also some community spread, particularly in congregated areas among Migrant Workers and elsewhere. What do youre think . Jason well, i agree with kim. We have to remember what the original goal, the objective of the lockdown was and that was to avoid having our Healthcare System over well med, overwhelmed, Emergency Rooms overwhelmed. Thats the metric im paying attention to. We knew when we started to reopen, infection rates would go up. Its not a a surprise. Its a concern. The question is whether the Healthcare System can handle it and so far the Healthcare Systems seem to be in a good position of handling it. The real problem that anyone calling for another lockdown is going to have, particularly in the media, among some of these politicians, is their credibility here. A lot of the models were off in terms of their projections and infections and mortality rates and so forth. And you cant fool all the people all the time. And the other problem theyre going to have is, paul, is their selective outrage at people who broke lockdown protocol. If you wanted to go out into the streets and bash the police, that was okay. But if you wanted to go to church or go bury a loved one or Something Like that or open a business, you were told too bad. So people who want another lockdown here i think are going to have some hurdles to clear. Paul well, but kim, so the i take jasons point. Day your part. Part of the issue here is business cominge back and its notco just politicians ordering the lockdown but if you get businesses that say, well, you know, were getting a flairup in flare up in questions, were not going to open ourselves or well open at 25 or shut down again, thats going to slow the recovery. So the big increase in tests could still have negative economic consequences even if theres no formal shutdown. Kim thats why it is so important to look at the data and be very clear about what we are seeing here again. You know, you mentioned that if you dig into some of the numbers and some of those states, those hot spots youre seeing them in very specific places. You know, like in meat packing plants that never really shut down, in care facilities. So youre having hot spots within the hot spots. The question is can you handle them and manage them. And i have to give a bad grade here to the press which is really sparking a lot of headlines that suggest that we should be panicking, that there is a problem and i think theres a certain cynicism in this because its wrapped up in politician. Some politicians on the left, some in the media, they would rat