Reaction tonight was swift, the mayor of atlanta who is said to be a possible running mate for joe biden, she has called the incident a murder, she said so right away. But attorney ted williams spoke out forcefully when this news broke today, saying that he believes its a rush to judgment and he fears that it is an overcharging in this case given the struggle that we saw on video. Here he is. We are not watching justice take place. These are human beings. I can tell you, this case is going to have a far reaching effect on the morale of officers and that Police Department, this is a rush to judgment, this is to satisfy a crowd. Martha so the d. A. Today said that the other officer who was on the scene and was charged is acting as a witness for his case but according to a report tonight in atlanta, his lawyer denies that, says that hes cooperated with the investigation but that he is not agreed to be state witness or to testify in any Court Hearing ostensibly against the other officer. Some more on that story of a former nypd commissioner joins me in a moment, also hud secretary ben carson all standing by at tonight to weigh in on this, we begin with the former police commissioner, good to have you with us tonight. Your thoughts on the charges as they came down this afternoon in this case . You know what, martha . I know a number of detectives down in atlanta, spoken to them including some people that work in howards office, the d. A. s office and i think ted williams must know them, too because two of the words he said, these guys have told me consistently, overcharging and a rush to judgment. There are also concerned that there was no grand jury indictment, they used grand jury subpoenas with no grand jury, there was no gbi report and there is one thing i want to bring up, martha, that i think is very important here. It was clear by the press Conference Today that howard insisted that the deadly force used against brooks was not justified because taser is not a Deadly Weapon. Two weeks ago, he charged Six Atlanta Police officers with aggravated assault with a Deadly Weapon, he charged them. And the Deadly Weapon was a taser. Martha you are referring to the case where the College Students are pulled out of a c car . Yeah, exactly. Martha thats interesting because we clearly heard him say today that he believes that is not a Deadly Weapon because you see in the video how mr. Brooks turned and pointed the taser which hed taken off of the officer and turned around and pointed at him. What do you say to the criticism that as mayor Keisha Bottoms says, this incident when you watch the whole thing, it begins very calmly, she says this couldve ended differently and she blames the officers for the fact that it didnt. She says they had opportunities to apprehend him peacefully and that a couldve ended with him still alive. You know what, martha . I dont think they could have attempted to arrest him anymore peacefully than they did. If you watch the video, the body cam from start to finish, they were collaborative, they were a professional, they were courteous, they were nice, everything under the sun until they went to put handcuffs on him and look, i personally believe, this guy was a violent felon, had a number of different charges over the years including aggravated assault and others and i think he may have been on probation and if thats the case he knew when they put handcuffs on him, hes going to go back to prison. So i think at that point he made a decision, hes going to fight. He resisted, he assaulted, he attacked, he took their weapon, basically took the weapon right out of the cops hand and took off. And at some point in time he attempted to shoot the cop with a taser and the cop returned fire. Martha what a bubble for the altercation begins and before he handcuffs . They had already ascertained that he didnt have a weapon on him and what he had done, according to the reports, he fell asleep in a car in the drivethrough area in wendys and was intoxicated based on their assessment. He said it, i will just lock up my car and walked to my sisters house. Why not just let him do that . I dont know what the policies are in atlanta for that but keep in mind, both of these cops have body cameras on, i dont know if they have an arrest policy, mandatory arrest for dui, i dont know but i would bet that thats probably the case and are not allowed to have them walk off after hes been driving, theyre not allowed to take their keys or whatever the case may be, i dont know but i would have somebody look at it. Martha one more thing i heard the d. A. Bring up today, he said that on the video you can see that one of the officers put his foot on mr. Brooks arm on the ground after hed been shot, he said officers have a duty to help and he questioned why that was the action taken, what are you up say about that . Honestly, martha, i watched the videos three or four times, i didnt see that but if it happened in the heat of the moment, trying to keep the guy on the ground, i cant explain it and heres the bottom line, there should have been a thorough investigation, there should have been a grand jury investigation. Martha the Georgia Bureau of investigation says they were surprised by this News Conference and that they havent finished their investigation into all of this so thats a good point as well. So are people in his office, they were surprised. Martha thank you very much, good to see you tonight. Joining me now, dr. Wendy osefo, assistant professor at Johns Hopkins university, good to see you here this evening, whats your response to what you just heard and also from ted williams who you heard earlier in the segment . I think its just a bunch of excuses, what we have here is an individual who was running away. You should not die when youre running away, he was shot twice in his back and he was killed, that is the fax. Yes, he took the taser, he turned around and pointed the taser but as has been said so many times, it is not necessarily considered a Deadly Weapons of the point of Police Officers are to deescalate situations, not to escalate them and to be quite honest with you i always say this, my brother is an nypd Police Officer, and the granddaughter of a retired police chief, the job is really quite easy, you have the mans car. If you ran away he could run his place and find out where he is, its not something he should die martha obviously this ended very tragically in the outcome of all of it is not what i think anybody who walked into that situation that night wouldve wanted but the argument is that he is the one who escalated the situation when he was intoxicated by the measure of the breathalyzer and i said okay, were going to have to put you in handcuffs and he sort of ends up punching the officer in the face, he takes the taser off this place Police Officer. As someone who has as you say a brother in the nypd, how would you feel if your brother was in the middle of an arrest and was made vulnerable like that in that situation . My brother has never killed anyone, the facts are black people are two times more likely to be killed by Police Officers. The facts are, this Police Officer after he shot this black man in his back kicked him and then he said i got him. My question to you is, this individual may have escalated the situation but we pay Police Officers to deescalate situations. One person is paid, another person is not. If you cannot do your job, if you cannot deescalate a situation then you need to quit because that is why we pay you to do your job. So that is my answer to that, yes this individual may have escalated that situation but he is not paid to protect and serve. The Police Officer is. Martha so when he runs away and points the taser at the officer there is a suggestion in the report that he sees a flash of light and that there is the possibility that he didnt know it was a taser, he mightve thought it was a gun at that point. Does that change your thinking at all as he watches video . No, because we know thats a lie because if we watch the video from the beginning they start to the individual, they knew he didnt have a gun, they knew he didnt have a weapon so all of a sudden you guys are running, you think thats a gun . What was the point of searching him to see if he has a weapon . Martha its all going to be investigated and there are 11 felony charges against this officer so thats a procedure that should play out and obviously its a tragic end to the situation and we go into the story excepting that from the getgo. Thank you very much. We will bring in dr. Ben carson, secretary of housing and urban development. Always good having on the show, thank you very much for being here tonight, this is a sad situation, we all watched Rayshard Brooks wife, we all wish it didnt end this way. As you listen to the story play out what are your thoughts . Well, my thoughts are that people on both sides are obviously extremely emotional about this. I was quite surprised to see those charges made this early in the process because as i said earlier, this is not nearly as clearcut as the case in minnesota was. And you know, there is definitely wrong on both sides hear about the one guy lost his life and i guess one of the things that should come out of this is when we are training Police Officers it should be automatic that if you take your gun out you have made the decision that whatever has happened is worth taking someones life. And i wonder if that process, that mental process had gone on if this wouldve turned out this way. But one of the things that to me is more disturbing, is very disturbing is the fact that this man was being chased and shot at in an area where there were civilians. And i thought that police were trained not to do that, not to endanger other citizens in the course of an apprehension and in one of the cases the bullet hit the rear fender of a car and of course thats near the gas tank, what if that car had exploded and the people inside had been killed . These are the kinds of judgments that have to be made, we have to admire the police. There are so many interactions that they engage in every single day and we dont have a lot of these kinds of incidents so it is a little bit unfair to judge the police when they make a mistake and i think probably this could have been handled better, i think theres no question it couldve been handled better but i think you really need a much more complete investigation of everything, i agree that a grand jury should have been impaneled and its too big a case just to rush to judgment. It could be that the same verdict would be had, i understand that but i think it would make much more sense to delve into it deeply given the amount of Emotional Trauma that it has caused on all sides. And we also have to look at, what are the consequences of continually highlighting the mistakes that police make . But not giving any balance in terms of the Amazing Things that police do every day. I think were hurting ourselves as a society, not making any excuses for police to make mistakes or who do bad things but we need to be a little more balanced in the way we evaluate these things ever going to survive as a society. Martha you heard dr. Wendy say that a black man is twice as likely to be killed in this situation as a white man. There are a lot of different statistics when you look at these numbers and other people, if you go by the Washington Post numbers, that number would not hold up however it all goes to the issue just the opposite, actually. Martha yes it would. He goes to the issue of whether or not there is racism involved in these moments or whether it is a Police Officer acting in a way that he shouldnt and the motive is ascribed to it. With regard to that, this is Kamala Harris, senator harris talking about this and id like to get your thoughts on it. We have a duty as United States senators to be fully aware of our countrys history of systemic racism. And a responsibility to take serious action. A great many of our colleagues use the phrase systemic racism. To suggest that the entire criminal Justice System is imbued with racism. Martha dr. Carson, what you say to that, sir . Well, again, we live in a period of time or if theres any incident that goes on that involves a black person and a white person you can be guaranteed that the term racism is going to be thrown into it, the fact of the matter is there are lots of interactions that occur between people that have nothing to do with race but if we say the system is systemically racist then it gives us the excuse that we need to try to completely change the system and you know, there are those who say we want to redo america, we want to remake america pay a wealth of course you have to first make the case that america is broken and the fact of the matter is, this is as ive said before, the destination place for millions of people around the world. Do we have defects . Absolutely, we are inhabited by imperfect people but why dont we look at situations like what is it just occurred in atlanta, dissect this and make sure that we put in place policies so that people dont continue to have these kinds of situations arise, that will be much smarter than getting into our respective corners, demonizing each other and getting angry all the time. Martha wise words. Dr. Carson, thank you, always good to have you with us, thank you. So exclusive revelations tonight from the upcoming memoirs of former National Security advisor john bolton who accuses the president of trying to collude with china to win back the election. We will break down that entry in the book. Trey gowdys thoughts on it when we come back. T now. And right now, is a time for action. So, for a second time were giving members a credit on their auto insurance. Because its the right thing to do. 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Trump said approvingly that there was great hostility to china among the democrats and then stunningly turned the conversation to the u. S. President ial election, pleading with xi to ensure that he would a win. I would print the exact words about the governments prepublication process decided otherwise. The quote is absolutely untrue, it never happened. As federal prosecutors reportedly involved criminal charges. Trey gowdy, good to have you here tonight. So obviously this process has been im sure are good for book sales but how are the quotes in the book that youve seen so far . John boltons argument now is that trump is unfit for office and should be removed, that hes committed high crimes and misdemeanors. Now he had a chance to go before the house, he didnt do it. He had a chance to go before the senate, he didnt do it. He had a chance to come on you or show or some other hosts show and answer tough questions but no, for 29. 95, hes going to save you from this threat to our republic. If you really think hes unfit to be the leader of the free world, why didnt you say anything . Keep one other thing in mind, martha. He aint being crossexamined, hes sitting in his pajamas pecking away on his ipad. The power of crossexamination is you actually have to withstand the cauldron, withstand the heat of being questioned on it, anybody can write a book and make assertio assertions. Can you answer questions under crossexamination from the house or the senate . Apparently he couldnt. Martha heres what adam schiff had to say about that, it appears john bolton has ticked off people on both sides of the aisle in this effort. Both ends of the staff were asked to testify and they did, they had a lot to lose and they showed real courage. When bolton was asked he refused and said he would sue. He may be an author but hes no patriot and this is from attorney general bill barr to reporters the other day when asked about whether or not this was a violation at the monday roundtable with the president , watch this. People who come to work in the government and have access to Sensitive Information generally sign an agreement, they have to go through a clearance process befo