Transcripts For KGO This Week With George Stephanopoulos 201

The more that a broken system tells you that youre wrong, the more certain you should be that you must keep pushing ahead. From abc news, its a special edition of this week. The firing of director comey. Here now, chief anchor george stephanopoulos. Good morning. And to all the moms out there happy mothers day. When this week began, the Trump White House was on something of a roll. Obamacare repeal had passed the house. Preparations for the president s first foreign trip including a meeting with the pope were proceeding a pace. That was the calm. Then came the storm. President trumps stunning decision to fire fbi director james comey has plunged his white house into chaos, shaken his supporters, galvanized his opponents, and raised the most serious questions yet about the president s competence, credibility, and judgment. It is true that before last week, comeys toughest critics were democrats. And president s do have the right to fire fbi directors. But its only been done once before for good reason. Preserving the idea that Law Enforcement is separate from politics is critical to our democracy. Never before has a president fired an fbi director conducting an investigation into that president s campaign. Never before has a president confessed that he was thinking about that investigation when he fired the person running it. Regardless of recommendation, i was going to fire comey. Knowing there was no good time to do it. And in fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know this russia thing with trump and russia is a madeup story. Its an excuse by the democrats for having lost an election that they should have won. That admission shattered the early white house spin, that the president s decision had nothing to do with the Russian Investigation. That he was acting solely on the Deputy Attorney generals recommendation that comey had to be fired for how he handled the Hillary Clinton investigation. It also brought back three words from the days of watergate. Obstruction of justice. To be fair, the president in that same interview, said he wanted the investigation to absolutely be done properly. But his actions have raised questions about those words. And after reports that james comey denied clearing the president from the investigation, that he refused to pledge loyalty to trump at a dinner meeting in january, the echoes of watergate embedded in this tweet from the president. James comey better hope that there are no tapes of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press. Comey will likely tell his story to congress. Heres what the president said about a loyalty pledge. Did you ask that question . No, no, i didnt. But i dont think it would be a bad question to ask. I think loyalty to the country, loyalty to the United States is important. You know, i mean, it depends on how you define loyalty. Thats number one. Number two i dont know how that got there because, i didnt ask that question. What about the idea that in a tweet you said that there might be tape recordings. Well, that, i cant talk about. I wont talk about that. So at the end of a tumultuous week, were left with a series of questions. Is President Trump the first president since nixon with a secret taping system in the white house . If tapes exist, will they now become evidence . Will the fbi and congressional investigations proceed without interference and what will they conclude . How can President Trump and his white house recover their credibility . Is a massive staff shakeup coming . And will that matter if the president himself does not change . And lets start with our reporters and analysts on the front lines. Our chief White House Correspondent jon karl. Senior justice correspondent pierre thomas. Our chief Global Affairs anchor Martha Raddatz. And republican strategist alex castellanos, also a contributor to abc news. Welcome to all of you. Jon karl, i have to give you credit. Most of the white house didnt know this was coming. You got the first inkling on tuesday morning. This may have been the closest held president ial decision we have seen of the trump presidency. Only a handful of aides knew about this. I asked sean spicer about it in the press briefing that day. It was clear the White House Press office had no idea what was coming. And george, this of all the craziness, of all the tension we have seen over the course of this presidency so far, this was the tensest week that i have seen at the white house. Because even before this, you had rumors of a big staff shakeup coming. Senior folks in the white house, not sure their jobs were secure. But the real frustration for especially republicans on capitol hill is there was a sense going into this week that the president may have turned the ship. Health care reform was passed, at least in the house. And they were preparing for a very ambitious and i believe well organized, well thought out well conceived foreign trip. The first foreign trip for the president. You get to the questions of credibility. The 36 to 48 hours where you had sean spicer, Sarah Huckabee sanders. Kellyanne conway, the Vice President all going out and saying this is about the Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein. The president said the same things to members of congress. He did. Clearly there was a major shift. I believe it was driven by the fact that there was fear that Rod Rosenstein could resign. He was clearly upset with the idea that it was being pinned on him. But george, im told there were talking pointed prepared in this very small group, im told, talking points from before rosenstein was asked to write the memo. Talking points about why comey should be fired, in the white house, prepared by the white house staff. The small group is don mcgahn, the white house counsel, reince priebus, jared kushner. Anyone else . And the Vice President. Pierre thomas, you cover justice day after day. We have heard a lot of reports from those close to comey denying so much about what the president has said about those meetings. Exactly. This was a week unlike any i have seen in years at the fbi. Theyre usually in a position of knowing secrets and things that will shock other people. They got shocked this week. Comey found out about this in los angeles. He thought it was a joke. He thought it was a joke. It was on television behind him. Literally, the people in the room were saying, do you see whats going on . He turned around. Then went to another room to find out from someone in washington that he had been fired. You have the president in the initial letter saying that comey told him on three separate occasions he was not a target of the investigation. And then, you saw this idea that he had dinner with comey on january 27th, which is the same week that the acting attorney general sally yates is telling the white house about michael flynn, general flynns problems. The same week general flynn is investigated by the fbi. Look, the people that are close to comey do not believe he would ever tell the president he was not the subject of an investigation. Hes too careful. He knows these investigations have twists and turns. You never know what will happen until its over. They also think that he would not pledge loyalty. He would tell the president , look, ill be honest with you. That there would be no never a situation where he would pledge loyalty. I think what im hearing from people inside the bureau more than anything is that they were stunned that the white house has been talking about the need to shut this investigation down so openly. Theyre also stunned at the notion of how comey was treated. They think he was treated shabbily. And thats the word im hearing. Whats so strange about this, this is the kind of thing you would expect to see on tape from a white house years after the fact. But the president s doing this all very transparently, saying listen, i was thinking about russia. In real time. Right. And the person who is in the most interesting position is the Deputy Attorney general, rosenstein. Im told he made a very principled argument in terms of when he was asked by the president. The impetus came from President Trump to fire comey. But when he was asked, his legitimate argument was comey is too much of a maverick. Hes too much of a person that likes the spotlight. He was taken aback by comeys, quote, in this persons words, performance last week, when he talked about how difficult the decision was in regards to the clinton investigation, and that comey was way too aggressive in making the case publicly about it. And the president s word, a showboat. On what he said in the interview about russia, i dont think President Trump was saying i fired him because of the russia investigation. I think what he was really saying is that on the idea that there would be massive blowback because he was firing the guy in charge to ever investigation, he wasnt worried about the blowback because he thinks the Russian Investigation is nothing. That it will come to nothing. One of the strange twists, the day after this is all announced, the president in the oval office with the Russian Foreign minister lavrov. An extraordinary picture from that encounter. Not released by the white house, of course but released by the russians. There they are, smiling and laughing. I was at a press conference later that day with sergey lavrov, the foreign minister. He was answering all the questions we wanted to Ask Donald Trump and that we wanted to ask the white house that day. Sergei lavrov said, look, i had nothing to do with this. But we have to remember that at the center of all of this is the hacking. Is what the russians did during our election process. Their absolute targeting our democracy. And theres President Trump, laughing with them. Lavrov said they did not talk about the charges against russia. And you still hear President Trump talking as if this may not be true. Others may have hacked as well. He makes a divide, as he should, that theres no evidence the russians actually hacked into any voting. But they certainly hacked into the dnc. Tried to raise questions about our democracy. We have new polling, alex, out this morning. From nbc and the wall street journal showing that 29 approve of the president s decision. Of those who know a lot about it, 53 disapprove. The overall Approval Rating still at 39 . You have supported the president. How do his voters view all this from outside of washington . Well, i think they see this is the washington that they hate. The phony outrage industry in full force. Democrats perhaps shouldnt have been making as effective a case for firing jim comey as they have for the past few months or admitted that Hillary Clinton would have fired jim comey if she had been elected, if theyre going to be outraged that hes fired now. A lot of trump voters look at washington as if these people are all over the map. They serve themselves, not us. This is the washington they hate. And who is their antiwashington hero . Donald trump. At what point do they say this is the gang that cant shoot straight, even if it is justified. Even if the president has the right to fire the fbi director, the way they did it. Yes, the way they did it is erratic. We were on the plane yesterday. With a trump voter. We were talking. He was scared to death. We didnt know he was a trump voter. He came up and said, when is the president going to settle down . Hes a wild man. Is he off the grid . Well, good luck waiting for that. But i asked him, would you vote for hillary or donald trump today again . Oh, no, we would vote for trump. Our poll still shows that, as well. Jonathan karl, on that point about the white house right now, there is all this talk about a shakeup. The question is, can it happen . Does the president want to it happen right now . A lot of white house aides are in the dark about this. They dont know what their last day will be. Absolutely. And a lot of them are worried their last day could be soon. This predates the comey firing. There has been, you know, that the president has been hearing from some of his closest advisers outside the white house that staff just the system is not working well in the west wing. He needs major changes. So its unclear when these changes will come. I doubt youll see anything before he goes on his foreign trip. They want the trip to come out well. Absolutely. This is a really ambitious trip. Hes starting in saudi arabia. Hell meet with the leaders of virtually every muslim majority country in the world except for iran and syria. Its a very bold, very ambitious trip. And pierre thomas, well hear from james comey in public. He said he didnt want to testify before the Senate Intelligence committee in private next week. But likely, at some point, to testify in front of congress, openly . At some point were told he will speak his piece. And another subject before we go. In the midst of all this, another north Korean Missile text. This one successful. There have been seven missile tests since donald trump took office. I think the administration was feeling good about the fact that there hadnt been a nuclear test. And we still that could happen at any time. But this shows the North Koreans will keep at it. Theres a new president in south korea. A real test for the new president in south korea, as well. What is your one big piece of advice for the Trump White House . Um when are they going to start taking advice . I dont know that i have anything to offer. I think its important to keep this in context, george. A lot of americans and Trump Supporters see washington as one of these airlines that drags passengers down the aisle and bloodies them. And the only person who stands up for them is donald trump. Hes the only thing between them and a washington establishment that would devour them and maul them. They need him. And before we go, i apologize, i wanted to get to this first. A lot of interviews for the future fbi director yesterday. We saw senator john cornyn. One of the people on the list. Former congressman mike rogers. Talk about the interviews. Two judges on the list. Two current fbi agents on the list, as well. A couple of judges, as well. I think that the bureau wants someone who is above reproach. And, they the Agents Association put out today theyre in favor of mike rogers. Hes a former fbi agent. And ill tell you, george, the president knows, he needs to have somebody who is politically bulletproof. I would not be surprised if it was someone not on that list. Maybe like a robert muller, the former fbi director who served under democratic, republican president s. Universally respected would pass with flying colors. Mike rogers has some big fans in the west wing. You could see, dont rule out Merrick Garland who was floated by senator mike lee. Who could be confirmed 1000 in the senate. President obamas nominee for the supreme court. Denied that. That would be amazing. We have seen a lot. Dont rule it out. Thank you all very much. Up next, well hear from u. N. Ambassador nikki haley and her response to how the tumult is affecting americas standing in the world. Americas standing in the world. Stay with me, mr. Parker. When a critical patient is far from the hospital, the hospital must come to the patient. Stay with me, mr. Parker. The at t network is helping First Responders connect with medical teams in near real time. Stay with me, mr. Parker. Saving time when it matters most. Stay with me, mrs. Parker. Thats the power of and. For all kinds of things. Like walking. Ewarded hey, honey. Dad, wheres the car . Thought wed walk. Hes counting steps. Walk, move and earn money. Goal dad. Hey, we wanna welcome everyone to the father daughter dance. Look at this dad, hes got some moves money you can use on outofpocket medical expenses. Hes ok, yeah unitedhealthcare what we do every night is like something out of a strange dream. Except that the next morning. It all makes sense. Fedex powers global ecommerce. With networks built over 40 years. That are massive. Farreaching. And, yes. Maybe a bit magical. Visit fedex. Com slash dream as we said, north korea conducted a successful missile test last night. Were going the talk about that and a lot more with u. N. Ambassador nikki haley. Thank you for coming in. Happy mothers day. Thank you. Serious stuff to begin with. The seventh missile test this year from the North Koreans. It appears to have been a success. Your administration has said this era of strategic patience is over. Is there anything you can do right now to stop the tests . You have to get into kim jonguns head. Hes in a state of paranoia. Hes incredibly concerned about anything and everything around him. I think this was a message to south korea, after the election. And so what were going to do is to continue to tighten the screws. He feels it. He absolutely feels it. Were going to continue whether its sanctions, press statements. It doesnt appear to be affecting his actions. I can tell you, were working better with china than we ever have. Were determined to take care of south korea which is why we have our mission there, working on that as well. Were going to continue to take care of japan. What we do know is that the International Community is concerned. Its not just us against them anymore. Youll see the entire International Community isolate north korea and let them know this is not acceptable. Just before the missile test, a senior official in the North Korean Foreign Ministry said theyre prepared for direct talks with the Trump White House<\/a> was on something of a roll. Obamacare repeal had passed the house. Preparations for the president s first foreign trip including a meeting with the pope were proceeding a pace. That was the calm. Then came the storm. President trumps stunning decision to fire fbi director james comey has plunged his white house into chaos, shaken his supporters, galvanized his opponents, and raised the most serious questions yet about the president s competence, credibility, and judgment. It is true that before last week, comeys toughest critics were democrats. And president s do have the right to fire fbi directors. But its only been done once before for good reason. Preserving the idea that Law Enforcement<\/a> is separate from politics is critical to our democracy. Never before has a president fired an fbi director conducting an investigation into that president s campaign. Never before has a president confessed that he was thinking about that investigation when he fired the person running it. Regardless of recommendation, i was going to fire comey. Knowing there was no good time to do it. And in fact, when i decided to just do it, i said to myself, i said, you know this russia thing with trump and russia is a madeup story. Its an excuse by the democrats for having lost an election that they should have won. That admission shattered the early white house spin, that the president s decision had nothing to do with the Russian Investigation<\/a>. That he was acting solely on the Deputy Attorney<\/a> generals recommendation that comey had to be fired for how he handled the Hillary Clinton<\/a> investigation. It also brought back three words from the days of watergate. Obstruction of justice. To be fair, the president in that same interview, said he wanted the investigation to absolutely be done properly. But his actions have raised questions about those words. And after reports that james comey denied clearing the president from the investigation, that he refused to pledge loyalty to trump at a dinner meeting in january, the echoes of watergate embedded in this tweet from the president. James comey better hope that there are no tapes of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press. Comey will likely tell his story to congress. Heres what the president said about a loyalty pledge. Did you ask that question . No, no, i didnt. But i dont think it would be a bad question to ask. I think loyalty to the country, loyalty to the United States<\/a> is important. You know, i mean, it depends on how you define loyalty. Thats number one. Number two i dont know how that got there because, i didnt ask that question. What about the idea that in a tweet you said that there might be tape recordings. Well, that, i cant talk about. I wont talk about that. So at the end of a tumultuous week, were left with a series of questions. Is President Trump<\/a> the first president since nixon with a secret taping system in the white house . If tapes exist, will they now become evidence . Will the fbi and congressional investigations proceed without interference and what will they conclude . How can President Trump<\/a> and his white house recover their credibility . Is a massive staff shakeup coming . And will that matter if the president himself does not change . And lets start with our reporters and analysts on the front lines. Our chief White House Correspondent<\/a> jon karl. Senior justice correspondent pierre thomas. Our chief Global Affairs<\/a> anchor Martha Raddatz<\/a>. And republican strategist alex castellanos, also a contributor to abc news. Welcome to all of you. Jon karl, i have to give you credit. Most of the white house didnt know this was coming. You got the first inkling on tuesday morning. This may have been the closest held president ial decision we have seen of the trump presidency. Only a handful of aides knew about this. I asked sean spicer about it in the press briefing that day. It was clear the White House Press<\/a> office had no idea what was coming. And george, this of all the craziness, of all the tension we have seen over the course of this presidency so far, this was the tensest week that i have seen at the white house. Because even before this, you had rumors of a big staff shakeup coming. Senior folks in the white house, not sure their jobs were secure. But the real frustration for especially republicans on capitol hill is there was a sense going into this week that the president may have turned the ship. Health care reform was passed, at least in the house. And they were preparing for a very ambitious and i believe well organized, well thought out well conceived foreign trip. The first foreign trip for the president. You get to the questions of credibility. The 36 to 48 hours where you had sean spicer, Sarah Huckabee<\/a> sanders. Kellyanne conway, the Vice President<\/a> all going out and saying this is about the Deputy Attorney<\/a> general Rod Rosenstein<\/a>. The president said the same things to members of congress. He did. Clearly there was a major shift. I believe it was driven by the fact that there was fear that Rod Rosenstein<\/a> could resign. He was clearly upset with the idea that it was being pinned on him. But george, im told there were talking pointed prepared in this very small group, im told, talking points from before rosenstein was asked to write the memo. Talking points about why comey should be fired, in the white house, prepared by the white house staff. The small group is don mcgahn, the white house counsel, reince priebus, jared kushner. Anyone else . And the Vice President<\/a>. Pierre thomas, you cover justice day after day. We have heard a lot of reports from those close to comey denying so much about what the president has said about those meetings. Exactly. This was a week unlike any i have seen in years at the fbi. Theyre usually in a position of knowing secrets and things that will shock other people. They got shocked this week. Comey found out about this in los angeles. He thought it was a joke. He thought it was a joke. It was on television behind him. Literally, the people in the room were saying, do you see whats going on . He turned around. Then went to another room to find out from someone in washington that he had been fired. You have the president in the initial letter saying that comey told him on three separate occasions he was not a target of the investigation. And then, you saw this idea that he had dinner with comey on january 27th, which is the same week that the acting attorney general sally yates is telling the white house about michael flynn, general flynns problems. The same week general flynn is investigated by the fbi. Look, the people that are close to comey do not believe he would ever tell the president he was not the subject of an investigation. Hes too careful. He knows these investigations have twists and turns. You never know what will happen until its over. They also think that he would not pledge loyalty. He would tell the president , look, ill be honest with you. That there would be no never a situation where he would pledge loyalty. I think what im hearing from people inside the bureau more than anything is that they were stunned that the white house has been talking about the need to shut this investigation down so openly. Theyre also stunned at the notion of how comey was treated. They think he was treated shabbily. And thats the word im hearing. Whats so strange about this, this is the kind of thing you would expect to see on tape from a white house years after the fact. But the president s doing this all very transparently, saying listen, i was thinking about russia. In real time. Right. And the person who is in the most interesting position is the Deputy Attorney<\/a> general, rosenstein. Im told he made a very principled argument in terms of when he was asked by the president. The impetus came from President Trump<\/a> to fire comey. But when he was asked, his legitimate argument was comey is too much of a maverick. Hes too much of a person that likes the spotlight. He was taken aback by comeys, quote, in this persons words, performance last week, when he talked about how difficult the decision was in regards to the clinton investigation, and that comey was way too aggressive in making the case publicly about it. And the president s word, a showboat. On what he said in the interview about russia, i dont think President Trump<\/a> was saying i fired him because of the russia investigation. I think what he was really saying is that on the idea that there would be massive blowback because he was firing the guy in charge to ever investigation, he wasnt worried about the blowback because he thinks the Russian Investigation<\/a> is nothing. That it will come to nothing. One of the strange twists, the day after this is all announced, the president in the oval office with the Russian Foreign<\/a> minister lavrov. An extraordinary picture from that encounter. Not released by the white house, of course but released by the russians. There they are, smiling and laughing. I was at a press conference later that day with sergey lavrov, the foreign minister. He was answering all the questions we wanted to Ask Donald Trump<\/a> and that we wanted to ask the white house that day. Sergei lavrov said, look, i had nothing to do with this. But we have to remember that at the center of all of this is the hacking. Is what the russians did during our election process. Their absolute targeting our democracy. And theres President Trump<\/a>, laughing with them. Lavrov said they did not talk about the charges against russia. And you still hear President Trump<\/a> talking as if this may not be true. Others may have hacked as well. He makes a divide, as he should, that theres no evidence the russians actually hacked into any voting. But they certainly hacked into the dnc. Tried to raise questions about our democracy. We have new polling, alex, out this morning. From nbc and the wall street journal showing that 29 approve of the president s decision. Of those who know a lot about it, 53 disapprove. The overall Approval Rating<\/a> still at 39 . You have supported the president. How do his voters view all this from outside of washington . Well, i think they see this is the washington that they hate. The phony outrage industry in full force. Democrats perhaps shouldnt have been making as effective a case for firing jim comey as they have for the past few months or admitted that Hillary Clinton<\/a> would have fired jim comey if she had been elected, if theyre going to be outraged that hes fired now. A lot of trump voters look at washington as if these people are all over the map. They serve themselves, not us. This is the washington they hate. And who is their antiwashington hero . Donald trump. At what point do they say this is the gang that cant shoot straight, even if it is justified. Even if the president has the right to fire the fbi director, the way they did it. Yes, the way they did it is erratic. We were on the plane yesterday. With a trump voter. We were talking. He was scared to death. We didnt know he was a trump voter. He came up and said, when is the president going to settle down . Hes a wild man. Is he off the grid . Well, good luck waiting for that. But i asked him, would you vote for hillary or donald trump today again . Oh, no, we would vote for trump. Our poll still shows that, as well. Jonathan karl, on that point about the white house right now, there is all this talk about a shakeup. The question is, can it happen . Does the president want to it happen right now . A lot of white house aides are in the dark about this. They dont know what their last day will be. Absolutely. And a lot of them are worried their last day could be soon. This predates the comey firing. There has been, you know, that the president has been hearing from some of his closest advisers outside the white house that staff just the system is not working well in the west wing. He needs major changes. So its unclear when these changes will come. I doubt youll see anything before he goes on his foreign trip. They want the trip to come out well. Absolutely. This is a really ambitious trip. Hes starting in saudi arabia. Hell meet with the leaders of virtually every muslim majority country in the world except for iran and syria. Its a very bold, very ambitious trip. And pierre thomas, well hear from james comey in public. He said he didnt want to testify before the Senate Intelligence<\/a> committee in private next week. But likely, at some point, to testify in front of congress, openly . At some point were told he will speak his piece. And another subject before we go. In the midst of all this, another north Korean Missile<\/a> text. This one successful. There have been seven missile tests since donald trump took office. I think the administration was feeling good about the fact that there hadnt been a nuclear test. And we still that could happen at any time. But this shows the North Koreans<\/a> will keep at it. Theres a new president in south korea. A real test for the new president in south korea, as well. What is your one big piece of advice for the Trump White House<\/a> . Um when are they going to start taking advice . I dont know that i have anything to offer. I think its important to keep this in context, george. A lot of americans and Trump Supporters<\/a> see washington as one of these airlines that drags passengers down the aisle and bloodies them. And the only person who stands up for them is donald trump. Hes the only thing between them and a washington establishment that would devour them and maul them. They need him. And before we go, i apologize, i wanted to get to this first. A lot of interviews for the future fbi director yesterday. We saw senator john cornyn. One of the people on the list. Former congressman mike rogers. Talk about the interviews. Two judges on the list. Two current fbi agents on the list, as well. A couple of judges, as well. I think that the bureau wants someone who is above reproach. And, they the Agents Association<\/a> put out today theyre in favor of mike rogers. Hes a former fbi agent. And ill tell you, george, the president knows, he needs to have somebody who is politically bulletproof. I would not be surprised if it was someone not on that list. Maybe like a robert muller, the former fbi director who served under democratic, republican president s. Universally respected would pass with flying colors. Mike rogers has some big fans in the west wing. You could see, dont rule out Merrick Garland<\/a> who was floated by senator mike lee. Who could be confirmed 1000 in the senate. President obamas nominee for the supreme court. Denied that. That would be amazing. We have seen a lot. Dont rule it out. Thank you all very much. Up next, well hear from u. N. Ambassador nikki haley and her response to how the tumult is affecting americas standing in the world. Americas standing in the world. Stay with me, mr. Parker. When a critical patient is far from the hospital, the hospital must come to the patient. Stay with me, mr. Parker. The at t network is helping First Responders<\/a> connect with medical teams in near real time. Stay with me, mr. Parker. Saving time when it matters most. Stay with me, mrs. Parker. Thats the power of and. For all kinds of things. Like walking. Ewarded hey, honey. Dad, wheres the car . Thought wed walk. Hes counting steps. Walk, move and earn money. Goal dad. Hey, we wanna welcome everyone to the father daughter dance. Look at this dad, hes got some moves money you can use on outofpocket medical expenses. Hes ok, yeah unitedhealthcare what we do every night is like something out of a strange dream. Except that the next morning. It all makes sense. Fedex powers global ecommerce. With networks built over 40 years. That are massive. Farreaching. And, yes. Maybe a bit magical. Visit fedex. Com slash dream as we said, north korea conducted a successful missile test last night. Were going the talk about that and a lot more with u. N. Ambassador nikki haley. Thank you for coming in. Happy mothers day. Thank you. Serious stuff to begin with. The seventh missile test this year from the North Koreans<\/a>. It appears to have been a success. Your administration has said this era of strategic patience is over. Is there anything you can do right now to stop the tests . You have to get into kim jonguns head. Hes in a state of paranoia. Hes incredibly concerned about anything and everything around him. I think this was a message to south korea, after the election. And so what were going to do is to continue to tighten the screws. He feels it. He absolutely feels it. Were going to continue whether its sanctions, press statements. It doesnt appear to be affecting his actions. I can tell you, were working better with china than we ever have. Were determined to take care of south korea which is why we have our mission there, working on that as well. Were going to continue to take care of japan. What we do know is that the International Community<\/a> is concerned. Its not just us against them anymore. Youll see the entire International Community<\/a> isolate north korea and let them know this is not acceptable. Just before the missile test, a senior official in the North Korean Foreign Ministry<\/a> said theyre prepared for direct talks with the Trump Administration<\/a> if the conditions are right. President trump said he would be honored to meet kim jongun under the right circumstances. What are those . Its not this. Having a missile test is not the way to sit down with the president. Because hes absolutely not going to do it. I can tell you, he can sit there and say all the conditions he wants. Until he meets our conditions, were not sitting down with him. White house statement also said the president cant imagine that russia is pleased with this test. Any indication yet from your russian counterparts theyre prepared to take tougher action now . Theyre concerned. This is getting kind of close to home for them. So theyre concerned. And i think certainly, well start rallying the troops again and say, okay, what do we need to do next . And listen, i mean, theres a lot of sanctions left we can start to do, whether its with oil, whether its with energy, maritime ships, exports. We can do a lot of Different Things<\/a> that we havent done yet. So our options are there. We have to send a strong, unified message that this is unacceptable and i think youll see the International Community<\/a> do that. The day after the president s meeting with foreign minister lavrov, he tweeted, russia must be laughing up their sleeves watching as the u. S. Tears itself apart over a democratic excuse for losing the election. Is that what you think the russians are doing . Laughing up their sleeves . I think the russians are trying to figure out what to do. I dont think they know what to do with our president , i dont think they know what to do with the situation. Theyve been isolated when it comes to syria. Theyre trying to figure out what their place in the world is going to be. We have shaken that. I think now we have to move forward and figure out what can we work with them on. What are we not going to work with them on. You said to Martha Raddatz<\/a> on this program that the president hasnt told you to stop beating up on russia. It doesnt appear that thats what the president was doing in the meeting with the foreign minister. His job is to find common ground. Thats what his job is. And i can tell you, there is no one better to sit down with a foreign leader than the president. When he gets in front of them, things change. Things move. Its very positive. He makes a difference. I think what were seeing is theyre testing each other. Russia is testing us. Were testing them. Its part of just the new president coming in. And president putin having to figure out his place. The foreign minister appeared to be so full of himself in that meeting. Are you worried at all about the message that sends, having that meeting right on the heels of the firing of james comey . No. Russia is full of themselves. They have always been full of themselves. But its more of a facade they try to show as opposed to anything else. What we are is serious. You see us in actions. Its not in personas. Its in actions. Thats what we do. Thats why russia was left on an island when it came to syria. Everyone else isolated them with their connection with assad and iran. Youll continue to see us do that in other directions. However, its very important we work with russia on our fight against isis. Many Foreign Policy<\/a> experts have expressed concern, including the former cia director michael hayden. Heres what he said this week. In 110 days, the president has fired a National Security<\/a> adviser, an acting attorney general, and the director of the fbi. This kind of behavior is not normally associated with a mature, western democracy. Its associated with autocratic populist states. Also, condoleezza right, former secretary of state, is saying shes worried that comeys firing and the way the white house dealt with it is starting to erode peoples confidence in her institutions. And heres what one of your colleagues, the u. S. Ambassador to qatar tweeted this week. Increasingly difficult to wake up overseas to news from home, knowing i will spend today explaining or democracy and institutions. Has this made your job more difficult . No one has talked to me about this. No one . I love the fact that im in new york and im away from all of that. Its unusual for my counterparts in new york to talk about domestic issues. I enjoy not having to be close to those things in d. C. What i can tell you is the president is the ceo of the country. He can hire and fire whoever he wants. Thats his right. Whether you agree with it or not, its the truth. What hes trying to do is find his own team. Figure out how hes going to do it. Were there better ways he could have done that . Thats for everybody else to decide. He can hire and fire anybody he wants. That is indisputably true. But i guess the question is the timing, the reasons the president gave, and the whole question of credibility, whether you can take the president at his word. I think you can see this is a president of action. He is not one whos going to sit there and talk for too long. If he thinks something is wrong, hes going to deal with it. I think the reason people are uncomfortable is because he acts. He doesnt talk with a bunch of people about it before, he just acts. There is never a good time to fire someone. Thats not something that anybody thats never going to play out well. At the end of the day, the president has to surround himself with a team that he can trust. He has to surround himself with a team he thinks will represent and secure the United States<\/a> properly. I think thats what hes trying to do. Are the russians succeeding in their goal, the one expressed by the Intelligence Community<\/a>, their goal to disrupt our democracy, raise doubts about our democracy . I think thats what theyre doing around the world. I think theyre trying to do that. Theyre trying to cause everything to be in question. We see them playing in a lot of different elections and trying to do that because thats all theyve got. At the end of the day, thats a temporary fix for a bigger problem. What theyll find out is theyll cause some disruptions here or there. But at the end of the day, it wont have any sort of permanent lasting. All kinds of questions about a white house taping system. Whether or not he asked james comey to pledge loyalty to him. Did he ask you to pledge loyalty to him personally . No. But i think when you take a job, you automatically assume that you are working for the president and are part of the team. Loyalty is a big thing. As a former governor, i can tell you loyalty and trust is everything when youre a ceo. I can totally understand why hes looking to loyalty and trust. But loyalty to the constitution, first, correct . Of course. I mean loyalty look, first we serve the people. Ive always looked at that. You always serve the people first. Having said that, you never forget who is in charge. Who the ceo of a country is when you decide to serve. And so everyone works at the pleasure of the president. And thats what we have to remember. If he doesnt feel comfortable, he can do something about it. Did you ever assume you were being taped in the white house . I did not. I assume im being taped everywhere. So i never worry about that. Final question on the president s trip coming up. First stop of the president s trip, saudi arabia. He wants to go there first for a reason. To help the fight against isis and other extremists. During the campaign, he said he might halt purchasing oil from saudi arabia unless they commit troops or money to the fight against isis. Is that idea still on the table . I think what youre seeing is hes making an amazing first trip. Hes going to saudi arabia, israel, and rome. Think about that. Three of the strongest religions, hes going to go together, talk to all of them, and his message is going to be about unity. Hes going to show what American Leadership<\/a> looks like. Those are areas of the world that have questioned it. I think hes going to go and talk to them about where we can work together. Right now, the president understands we have to get unity across the world. We have to make sure were doing everything we can to unify everyone against isis. We have started to be very strong in our attacks against them around the world. This is his way of solidifying our relationships with saudi arabia and israel. And also with the pope. No threats to cut off Oil Purchases<\/a> . You know, i think anything is on the table. I would never say there is anything off the table. But thats not the intention of why hes going. Ambassador haley, thank you for coming in. Thank you. What does this all mean for the investigations into russia and the Trump Campaign<\/a> . Well talk to mark warner. The top democrat on the Senate Intelligence<\/a> committee. And the former director of National Intelligence<\/a>, james clapper. Ate intelligence committee. Like a human fingerprint, no two whale flukes are the same. Because your needs are unique, pacific life has been delivering flexible retirement and Life Insurance<\/a> solutions for more than 145 years. Ask a Financial Advisor<\/a> how you can Tailor Solutions<\/a> from pacific life to help you reach your financial goals. So we need tablets installed. With the menu app ready to roll. In 12 weeks. Yeah. The world of fast food is being changed by faster networks. Data, applications, customer experience. Which is why comcast business delivers Consistent Network Performance<\/a> and speed across all your locations. Fast connections everywhere. Thats how you outmaneuver. Theres james clapper, former director of National Intelligence<\/a>, speaking on capitol hill. A critical series of hearings this week. Andrew mccabe, the acting fbi director. The Senate Intelligence<\/a> committee is going to continue its investigations now. Were joined by the top democrat on that committee, senator mark warner. Thank you for joining us. First big question, is this firing of director comey going to affect your investigation . Its not going affect it. Lets step back for a minute. Look at what happened this past week. I thought this administration could no longer surprise me. But, boy, it surprised me this week. You had sally yates testify that the administration had not taken her information about general flynn in an appropriate manner. You had the firing of the fbi director two days before he was supposed to testify before my committee. And while, yes, the president can fire an fbi director, an fbi director gets a tenyear term. So theyre not subject to political interference. Unfortunately, i think you have seen that political interference, because the white house, itself, switched stories midweek and said, yes, the president said he was going to fire him regardless of what the Deputy Attorney<\/a> general said. Because of the russia investigation. And then, at the end of the week, you have this very bizarre statement by the president that there may exist private tapes. We want to make sure theyre preserved. Were going to want to take a look at them in congress. Do you think there are tapes . A wild week. I dont have the foggiest idea whether there are tapes or not. The fact that the president made allusions to that and the white house would not confirm or deny, it is not anything that we have seen in recent days. If there are tapes, will you try to subpoena them . Absolutely. It may be appropriate for a Different Committee<\/a> rather than the intelligence committee. But first of all, we have to make sure if these tapes exist, they dont mysteriously disappear. I have asked that they be preserved if they exist. Do you think the president , he had that statement of having russia in mind when they thought of firing comey. Do you think hes trying to throw road blocks into these investigations . Im not going to try to infer whats in the president s mind. It was very strange they said at first they fired comey because of a memo from the Deputy Attorney<\/a> general, a memo that didnt pass the smell test because it said they were going to fire comey because of how he treated Hillary Clinton<\/a>. Thats a little bit laughable. Then he acknowledged it was because comey was investigating russia. Then the president , in effect, kind of criticized comey, as hes criticized other Intelligence Community<\/a> leaders, which is frankly i think general clapper will address this as well is not good for morale in our intel community. So what was on the president s mind. I dont know. I do know that were going to get to the bottom of this. Regardless. Were going to follow the facts. Chairman burr and i have determined that. The good news from this week, acting director mccabe has said hes going to put all the resources needed behind this investigation. It is a top priority for them. And they are not going to be dissuaded as well. James comey declined your invitation to appear in closed session this tuesday. Some reports he wants to appear in public. Have you invited him to an open hearing . We would love to have director comey to appear in an open hearing. I think jim comey deserves his chance to lay out to the American Public<\/a> his side of the facts, because how he was treated was pretty awful by the president. It is true, however, that a lot of democrats thought before this week that james comey should go. Senator schumer said he had lost confidence in james comey. Hillary clinton blamed her loss, in part, on what james comey did. Does the president have a right to feel that democrats have turned around on this . Listen, george, i cant speak for other democrats. I have always had confidence in jim comey. I think he made some mistakes last fall. I have never lost that confidence. I know him. I think hes a straight shooter. I think its pretty remarkable, virtually unprecedented that an fbi director is fired this way, and, two, an fbi director being fired when hes leading an investigation between Trump Officials<\/a> and the russians. To fire him mid investigation boy, oh, boy, that raises a whole lot of questions. Your predecessor on the Senate Intelligence<\/a> committee, dianne feinstein, and senator durbin from illinois have both said the Deputy Attorney<\/a> general, Rod Rosenstein<\/a> should resign if he doesnt appoint a special counsel for the Russian Investigation<\/a>. Do you agree . I saw Deputy Attorney<\/a> general rosenstein this week and i said how disappointed i was with his actions, the fact that he had this memo that was, frankly, laughable, i think the best thing he can do to preserve his reputation and do the right thing for the country is appoint a special prosecutor. What is the status of your investigation right now . You have put out subpoenas to general flynn. Youre looking for financial documents from the Treasury Department<\/a> on President Trump<\/a>s income investments, business dealings. What do you make of the fact that we had this letter this week from President Trump<\/a>s lawyers saying that he had no income, debtor Equity Investments<\/a> from russians. Is the Committee Investigating<\/a> that or do you accept it at face value . George, that was as carefully crafted legalese that i have seen. The remarkable thing was, the letter was drafted and dated in march. He releases it now. To my mind, it raises more questions than it answers. The truth is, i havent thought that trump has that many investments in russia. I think its the converse. How much russian money has flooded into trump organizations, propped up mr. Trumps organizations after the crisis . Because, that, we dont have the answer to. And thats why we have asked the Treasury Department<\/a> to provide that information to the committee. Have you seen any evidence so far that President Trump<\/a> or his associates were colluding with russia during the campaign . Im not going to talk about where we are. Boy, oh, boy, theres an awful lot of smoke. Im not saying theres fire at this point but were going to follow the facts wherever they lead. Senator warner, thank you for joining us this morning. And were joined now by the former director of National Intelligence<\/a> james clapper. Thank you for joining us this morning. I want to pick up on that question right there. As you know, the president and his associates and the Vice President<\/a> have on several occasions cited you in their talking point that there is no collusion with the russians. I want to show first the Vice President<\/a> , then the president. The facts that are in public today are very clear. The former director of National Intelligence<\/a> has said there is no evidence of collusion. You were convinced you did nothing. Im not convinced. Clapper is convinced. The other people are convinced. Everybodys convinced. They say theres no collusion. So get it out of the white house. Theyre all saying there is no collusion. Now you did say back in your original testimony that you hadnt seen evidence of collusion. Tell us exactly what you think right now and your response to the president and the Vice President<\/a>. First, george, thanks for having me. I need to make clear i think to start with what the relationship that i had with the fbi with respect to counterintelligence investigations. The fbi is unique in that it straddles both Law Enforcement<\/a> and counterintelligence. At the time we did our Intelligence Community<\/a> assessment, which we published publicly on the 6th of january, there was no evidence of any collusion included in that report. Thats not to say there wasnt evidence. There could have been. Might be. I dont know. In the investigation. I did not know there was a formal investigation or they were addressing potential political collusion between the Trump Campaign<\/a> and the russians. Thats not the kind of thing the fbi would tell the director of National Intelligence<\/a> . Not necessarily. Counterintelligence investigations, particularly if theyre going to potentially implicate criminal activity, i and i left it to the judgment of both director comey and before him, director muller, to decide whether, when, and what to tell me about counterintelligence investigations. That was a practice followed for the 6 1 2 years i was dni. Again, out of deference to the sensitivity of these reports and because they invariably involve u. S. Persons. So what is the clearest statement you can make about what you know about any possible collusion between President Trump<\/a>, his associates, and the russians during the campaign . Well, my my access insight is aging off, since officially, that ended on january 20th. At the time i left office, i had no i had no evidence available to me that there was collusion. But thats not necessarily exculpatory since i did not know the state of the investigation nor the content, what had been turned up in it. You worked very closely with former fbi director james comey for many years. You have seen a lot of different reports. Saw the statement from the president. He says director comey cleared him on three different occasions. Saying he wasnt under investigation. We have reports that perhaps that the president asked him to make a loyalty pledge during their dinner in january. Was it appropriate for the fbi director to go to dinner with the president like that . Well, i know i happen to have been at the hoover building for another event on january 27th. And i spoke briefly with director comey. About the dinner. He conveyed to me he had been invited and he was this is my characterization uneasy with it simply because of the optic or the appearance of potentially compromising his independence and that of the bureau. But, i think, as a professional courtesy, when the president asks you to dinner, you go. I do not know, i have no direct insight into what was discussed during that dinner. You have no idea. Do you believe that james comey would make a pledge of loyalty to the president . I would find that profoundly out of character for what i know of jim comey and his integrity. I would find that very surprising. We heard this week from cia director mike pompeo and dan coates, the cyberactivity is the foremost National Security<\/a> threat to the United States<\/a> today from russia. Do you agree . I do. The two most capable nation state adversaries in the cyber domain are clearly russia and of course china. I do think russia poses a huge threat in the way they have used the cyber domain. That, to me, is the big issue here. Is russian interference in our political process, in our election process. That, that is a egregious act by them. Theyll continue to do that. I think more aggressively than they have in the past. And i think its something americans, all american citizens need to be aware of. And if theres ever been a clarion call for vigilance and action here to thwart this, this is it. Have they succeeded in the basic goal of undermining public faith in the u. S. Democratic process . And how have the president s actions this week impacted that . They have certainly, their first objective before without respect to their stance on either candidate, but their first objective was to sow doubt, discord, and dissension in this country. The russians have to be celebrating with a minimal expenditure of resources in what they have accomplished. And of course whats unfolded now, the leader of the the lead of the investigation about potential collusion between russia and the Trump Campaign<\/a> has been removed. So the russians have to consider this as another victory on the scoreboard for them. Finally, sir, we have all been reading about this massive cyberattack over the weekend. The ransomware cyberattack. 150 countries. 200,000 people. Is this just the beginning . Well, thats the concern that monday when everyone returns to the office that this ransom ware attack will be even larger. Um we senator mccain held a hearing last thursday on this very issue. And, i i think during the course of that, mentioned, ransomware as something were going to see more and more of. This is a very serious, serious problem and i think its going to grow. Mr. Clapper, thank you for joining us this morning. Thank you for having me, george. Up next, did President Trump<\/a> obstruct justice with his firing of fbi director joemy . Former white water independent counsel ken starr and harvard law professor Laurence Tribe<\/a> debate that question next. Harvard law professor Laurence Tribe<\/a> discuss next. When you buy a used car you should feel confident. Thats why carmax has over 40,000 cars to choose from nationwide. With prices clearly marked, the same online as they are in the stores. That should give you some carbuying confidence. 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Laurence tribe, constitutional law professor at harvard and ken starr. Of course, he was the independent prosecutor of bill clinton back in the 1990s. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us. Mr. Tribe, professor tribe, let me begin with you. You have a piece in the newspaper this morning. President trump must be impeached, heres why. Why . Because hes shown no respect for the rule of law. He regards himself as above the law. He thinks its appropriate to essentially have a Job Interview<\/a> with the fbi director. As we now know, the fbi director wanted to be reappointed. And the president essentially told him, well, well see. It depends. Will you plead loyalty to me . Well, kings and monarchs and dictators seek that kind of loyalty. He essentially said, if you assure me that this meddlesome russia investigation will go away, maybe ill keep you on. Thats obstruction of justice. Even within the technical term of the criminal code. But theyre not relevant. The most relevant thing, because impeachment is our systems last resort for someone who treats himself or herself as above the law, most relevant thing is whether this president , by his recent course of action, on top of his violations of the foreign corruption or emoluments clause, this president has shown that he cannot be trusted to remain within the law. And our constitutions last resort for situations of that kind is to get the person out of office. Let me interrupt you right there. Because the president also said in that same interview that he wants the investigation to be done properly. He does have the right to fire an fbi director, doesnt he . Sure. The right to fire does not include the right to fire in the context of what amounts to a bribe. That is to say, i can fire you, you know, but i wont if you do what i have no right to ask you to do. And thats to lay off. Of course the president said he wants to get to the truth. He always says that. But i think we all know that those words do not speak as loudly as his actions. Professor starr, your response . Well, i have the greatest respect for professor tribe. Very fond of him. But i emphatically disagree. I agree what he said in terms of the last resort, my goodness, that is correct. We dont want to go through this. I think the key point is what is the reality as opposed to what is the theory . The reality is and we just heard it from senator warner. The investigations are going forward. In fact, senator warner just said, were going to get to the truth. And i have the greatest respect for the fbi. There are over 10,000 special agents. Theres now a very able acting director of the fbi. In fact, if anything, the issues with respect to his spouse that have been raised. I think we need to allow the fbi to do its work. My two tours of duty at the justice department, my role as independent counsel, i worked with countless fbi agents. The directors are always people of great integrity. I have complete confidence. Its a terrific guardrail. There are checks and balances in our system. Lets allow the system to work. As you pointed out, you were an independent counsel. The law has expired. But the Deputy Attorney<\/a> general Rod Rosenstein<\/a> could appoint a special counsel. The democrats saying it is necessary at this point. Does the fact that the Deputy Attorney<\/a> general is involved in the firing, was asked by the president to come up with this recommendation or at least explanation for his decision, should he be appointing a special counsel . I dont think it causes any reason whatsoever, i was surprised to hear senator warner say very uncomplimentary things about the memo. I think americans should read the memorandum. Its a threepage memorandum and let the people decide for themselves. Rod rosenstein is a great patriot. Hes overwhelmingly respected. He was confirmed almost unanimously by the United States<\/a> senate. He just took office. Lets give him the opportunity to come to his own judgments instead of putting all his pressure on him. Ill just say this. Theres a huge cost. And i think the nation knows this, with the appointment of a special prosecutor. The first is delay. A special prosecutor, special counsel is a startup operation. He or she has nothing, absolutely nothing. Got to go get office space, among other things. But heres the key. The fbi is going to continue to serve whoever that special counsel is, heaven forbid, if we have one. More over, that special counsel is likewise going to come under political scrutiny. I can speak to that. Lawrence walsh in iran contra can speak to that. Theres no way to isolate an investigation at this level from criticism and the like. Lets trust our guardrails. Lets trust the checks and balances that we have, especially with the Senate Intelligence<\/a> committee. I think we should be reassured when we have chairman burr and senator warner, both of who are very respected members of the senate, both saying, democrat and republican, were going to get to the truth of the matter. Professor tribe, you heard that. Trust the guardrails. Trust is not what the framers of the United States<\/a> constitution and of this country relied on. Its true that the president hasnt yet succeeded in ripping the guardrail apart. But i dont think we need to wait. Yes, there should be a special counsel. And that special counsel, as ken starr himself, a friend who i admire showed, can do the job effectively. But thats not enough. The whole country needs to get to the bottom of the russian collusion allegations. But in the meantime, we have a president who himself says trust me. He does not accept the boundaries of law. He basically says that if anybody gets too close for comfort, im going to get rid of them. As long as thats in place, we cannot afford as a country to put our fate in the hands of someone so whimsical. And so unpredictable. The idea that it might take some time to get office space, my goodness, when were at the verge of having the fundamentals of our system collapse, we can afford some office space. This is a serious matter. The only way to avoid a constitutional crisis, and im not saying were there yet, is to reassure the public that the person leading the government is someone who has loyalties to someone other than himself. Not loyalties to the foreign governments that help them financially. Professor starr, were out of time. If you were looking into this case, would you be demanding tapes from the white house, if they do, indeed, exist . Absolutely. The investigation has to be thorough. And that means you go where you think the truth is. You follow the evidence. So you take the steps. But i would just say this. And i know you have got to go. We need to allow our system to work. Our system is not one person. It is the office of the presidency. Its also the entire structure that our framers put in place. But its also right now the men and women of the fbi, who we can trust in terms of their integrity and professionalism. That is all we have time for today. Thank you both very much for your time. Thank you. Well be right back. E right back. And well be right back after this from our abc that is all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us. That is all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us. Check out world news tonight. Ill see you tomorrow on gma. You tomorrow on gma. Person and leaves three injured. A fire on a construction site, what was done to keep it from flaring up. Clouds beginning to clear up. 54 degrees here. Another cool and breezy day for mothers day. Big changes ahead when dennys adds melty gouda cheese to a 100 beef burger a certain amount of classiness is to be expected. Woah, okay. Not that much. The all new bacon gouda burger from dennys. Its classy","publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"archive.org","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","width":"800","height":"600","url":"\/\/ia800604.us.archive.org\/3\/items\/KGO_20170514_150000_This_Week_With_George_Stephanopoulos\/KGO_20170514_150000_This_Week_With_George_Stephanopoulos.thumbs\/KGO_20170514_150000_This_Week_With_George_Stephanopoulos_000001.jpg"}},"autauthor":{"@type":"Organization"},"author":{"sameAs":"archive.org","name":"archive.org"}}],"coverageEndTime":"20240628T12:35:10+00:00"}