Transcripts For KLAS 60 Minutes 20160822

Drivers. Need Financial Planning . Algorithms are replacing human advisors and brokers. Apps like venmo let people click money to each other, similar to texting. Many of the Innovative Services in Financial Technology that have come along in the past ten years are not coming from banks. Pelley the fort oversaw the trafficking of more than 400,000 the amount of money invested in slaves was more than the amount of money invested in railroads, banks, and businesses combined. This was the economic engine of europe and the United States. . . . Pelley lonnie bunch came to this capital of the slave trade because he was determined to launch americas new national a very interesting thing. Im steve kroft. Im leslie stahl. Im anderson cooper. Im bill whitaker. Im scott pelley. Those stories tonight on 60 minutes. Tomorrow is not a given. But entresto is a medicine that helps make more morrows possible. . I love ya, tomorrow . In the largest Heart Failure study ever. Entresto helped more people stay alive and out of the hospital than a leading Heart Failure medicine. Women who are pregnant must not take entresto. It can cause harm or death an unborn baby. Dont take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren. If youve had angioedema while taking an ace or arb medicine, dont take entresto. Or high potassium in your blood. . Tomorrow, tomorrow i love ya, tomorrow. . Ask your heart doctor about entresto. And help make tomorrow possible. . Youre only a day away . I love my shop, but my back pain was making it hard to sleep and open up on time. Then i found aleve pm. The only one to combine a safe sleep aid a better am. When you can take your hands off the wheel to get out of a tight spot. When you can relax with your foot off the brake and stay put. And when you enjoy 400 horsepower thats both smooth and controlled. Thats the more human side of engineering. This is the lincoln summer invitation, hurry in now to your dealer for limited time offers lease an mkc for 289 a month or get 0 apr for 60 months my girl cindy bought this fridge from lowes because of their worryfree 30day satisfaction guarantee on appliances. Thats what im talking about cindy. I like your style. Now get up to 20 off appliances 396 or more, cooper during the most recent outbreak of the ebola virus, more than 500 Health Care Workers died of the disease, and something called personal protective equipment became essential to preventing the deaths of even more. Were talking about gowns, glovma designed to block the transmission of deadly bacteria and viruses. Theyre used every day in hospitals to protect doctors, nurses and patients. But ebola was so lethal, it raised the stakes enormously. If the protective equipment fails, infectious bodily fluids can get through a problem known as strikethrough. At the height of the Ebola Outbreak, we received a tip that a major american manufacturer had knowingly provided defective care workers in the u. S. And abroad. Its a serious accusation that had never been publicly examined until we first broadcast this story in may. ambulance siren if theres one thing that became evident during the Ebola Outbreak of 2014, its that personal protective equipment, properly used, could mean the difference between life and death. You probably remember the tragic images from west africa, and the workers in biohazard suits trying to help without getting may you help us to be a blessing to our patients. Cooper certain types of gowns were also used during the outbreak. The nurses at this hospital in liberia used gowns and fullbody suits to protect themselves after two of their top doctors died of the disease. Every day in the u. S. , doctors and nurses rely on some of the same gowns the centers for Disease Control recommended for ebola. One of them is the microcool health, which sells about 13 million gowns a year worldwide, including a quarter of the u. S. Market. The microcool gown is supposed to provide the highest level of protection available against bloodborne bacteria and viruses. Its label says it meets a rigorous Industry Standard known as aami level four dr. Sherry wren alright, lets go cooper which means its impermeable, so that blood containing viruses like hepatitis and h. I. V. Wont get on surgeons skin during an operation. Theres just one problem. What was wrong with the level four gowns . Bernard vezeau they would leak. They would leak. When we pressure tested them, especially in the seams. Cooper Bernard Vezeau was the global Strategic Marketing director for microcool and other products from 2012 to early 2015. He worked for Halyard Health, which was part of the Kimberly Clark corporation until november 2014. When two nurses at a dallas hospital became infected after caring for a patient with ebola, nurses hadnt been using microcool gowns, but he was concerned by the way the company went into high gear to sell the product. These gowns were being recommended for use with ebola. Vezeau aggressively being recommended. Cooper in what way aggressively . Vezeau we put a full court press to drive microcool sales. We told hospitals to stock up on our microcool products. We told them to have at least eight to 12 weeks of product on hand. And thats when things became very difficult for me. Cooper difficult because vezeau says he knew the gowns were not consistently meeting Industry Standards. Theres a test for this, right . Vezeau there is a test. And its conducted in outside facilities. Cooper so did your gowns consistently pass this test . Vezeau no, they did not. Cooper was the f. D. A. Aware of this . Were they notified . Vezeau no, not that im aware of. Cooper were customers warned . Vezeau no. Customers were not warned either. Cooper why not . Vezeau well, because kimberlyclark knew that if they they told customers, it would cost us a lot of business. Michael avenatti they didnt tell the public. They didnt tell the f. D. A. They didnt tell physicians. They kept selling the gown to the tune of millions of dollars every month. Cooper Michael Avenatti is a California Attorney who represents hospitals that are suing Halyard Health and Kimberly Clark for fraud. He showed us this report by an independent, Certified Laboratory that tested the sleeves of microcool gowns in december 2012 at the request of one of Kimberly Clarks competitors, cardinal health. Avenatti at the time cardinal and kimberlyclark were in litigation against one another. And cardinal had these gowns tested and, in fact the results were disastrous for Kimberly Clark. Cooper what do you mean, disastrous . Avenatti well, if you look through the report, youll see that 77 of the gowns that were tested failed. Cooper 77 . Avenatti 77 . Cooper at hospitals like u. F. Health in jacksonville, florida, we found surgeons who told us they repeatedly experienced strikethrough, with blood getting through their gowns and onto their skin. Their bloody arms and gowns and sent them to the company. Did you receive complaints from nurses, from surgeons at all . Vezeau on these gowns . Cooper yeah. Vezeau oh, frequently. On a very frequent basis. Cooper what kind of complaints . Vezeau oh, complaints of strikethrough, sleeves falling off, ties falling off. Cooper sleeves falling off. Vezeau sleeves falling off. Sleeves falling off during a procedure. Cooper were you at meetings where these problems were discussed . Vezeau every time. We were the ones who were telling Senior Management the problems that we were having. Cooper and what was their response . Remember the response one time from the c. O. O was, nobody really cares about this. Nobody really cares about surgical gowns. Chris lowery yeah, that thats thats just not true. Cooper chris lowery is the c. O. O. Vezeau was talking about, the chief operating officer of Halyard Health. Did you sell protective equipment for ebola that you knew was defective . Lowery no. And frankly, i i i think the allegations arent based in the facts. Cooper youre saying theyre completely false . Lowery yes. We get less than one complaint and even more so is weve never received even one report of a Health Care Professional contracting an infection as a result of a flaw in our product. Cooper lowery says Bernard Vezeau didnt raise his concerns until after he left the company; vezeau says he was fired because he was vocal about the problems. The company also questions the motives of this man, keith edgett, the former head of research and engineering for the gowns. In this video desi expresses the same concerns as vezeau about what was going on at the company. Keith edgett i believe that they were putting customers in harms way, and i was struggling with that. Cooper i want to show you the the results of a test performed by intertek labs. It shows that 77 of your microcool gowns failed one or both of the sleeves. Lowery yeah. Cooper 77 is a lot. Lowery anderson, its its its very important to put this this cardinal test data into context. First extreme outlier test we had never seen test data that reflected anything like this before, or for that matter since. Cooper halyard showed us its own test results from independent laboratories. The reports show the sleeves passed some of the time, and failed at others, but chris lowry says they passed far more than they failed, and when they failed it was at much lower rates than the cardinal test suggests. For the test in february 13, 18 out of 85 samples fail. Thats 21 . Lowery we have to lot test failure in the context of all the tests that are passing. Cooper but you you have failures in the product. Youre still selling the product. And you dont inform the f. D. A. And youre not informing customers . Lowery it it its its important to understand that the no manufacturing process is perfect. You take that into cooper but these failures were above the Industry Standard. Youre allowed a certain amount of failures. When you actually fail a test, though, thats above the failure rate thats already built in. Lowery and and in the testing that we completed after believe that we were fully compliant with our requirements for the product as it had been cleared. Avenatti is that what he told you . Cooper yeah. Avenatti evidently he forgot the 11th commandment. Cooper which is . Avenatti do not lie to 60 minutes. Cooper the company had shown us this march 2013 lab report as part of its proof the gowns passed the test. But attorney Michael Avenatti says thats not what really happened. Avenatti they claim to have submitted 79 samples cooper they said they passed, yeah. Avenatti well, they didnt pass; they failed because they didnt submit 79 samples. They submitted 85 samples and, in fact, six of the samples werent even tested because the sleeves were so bad. The lab took them out of the package and they were so bad that they didnt even test them. Because it was obvious what was going to happen. Cooper and they didnt include that in as failures . Avenatti no, they didnt. And, in fact i mean, i brought the document that shows it. Its a spread sheet prepared cooper six failed, not tested due to unsealed seams. Lot fails. Youre saying this is an example of fuzzy math . Avenatti no, this isnt fuzzy math; this is fraud. Cooper when we asked halyard about this, the company acknowledged it had not told us about those untested samples but denied it was trying to deceive us. The company says even if a sleeve seam fails, the risk of a doctor or nurse getting infected is extremely low. Lowery they would have to have some type of cut that would allow transmission. The defect would have to be in that exact place. The surgeon would have not covered the cut or abrasion as they should have per their procedure. Theres so many factors that have to align for that to occur. Dr. Sherry wren i think its really easy for him to say that. But hes not the guy doing it. Stanford University School of medicine. Wren the bottom line is, is he going to stand there and volunteer to let me paint some hepatitis c blood on his arms and on his stomach . Probably not is going to be my guess. Cooper and youve had hepatitis c blood on your arms and on your stomach . Wren of course. Cooper dr. Wren specializes in gastrointestinal surgery, and is coauthor of guidelines for surgeons operating on patients with ebola. She has no connection to the lawsuit against halyard, but she does wear microcool gowns for which she knew the person she was operating on had hepatitis c. Shortly after we recorded this surgery, dr. Wren told us she got blood on her arms and hands three times, while wearing three different microcool gowns and operating on another patient who also had hepatitis c. Weve been told that as long as your skin is intact, youre okay. Wren actually with that case i finished operating at 5 00 in the morning and i looked down at my hand. And i realized i had eroded off the o. R. Cooper it does matter then to you that these gowns are impervious . Wren yes. Of course it matters. Do i really want to have somebody elses infected bodily fluids on my body . No, i do not. Cooper internal documents we obtained suggest the company knew for a long time that it had a problem. Which is why we wanted to ask the c. O. O. Chris lowery about this november 2014 Powerpoint Presentation that identifies a yearandahalf gap isl seams passing the industry test. Weve been told that in november of 2014, a timeline was presented. And your own people acknowledged that there was a year and a half period in which the sleeve seams didnt pass the test, which demonstrates the gown is impervious. Is that true . Lowery its not. Cooper this is the presentation and on the second page it says lowery yeah. Cooper gap in sleeve seams passing astm 1671. And it shows a year and a half if if its okay, ive not seen this presentation, to my recollection. And and so i dont think that its appropriate, particularly out of any context, to to react to it. Cooper do you think stuff like this happens lowery i i think and anderson, probably from a time perspective, if you dont mind cooper you want to stop . Lowery yeah, i mean, i think that we probably i think weve spent the time that we agreed to. And team . Cooper a o required to meet new more stringent testing criteria during that gap shown on the timeline. By january 2015, the company says it had new sealing machines in place to improve the quality of its sleeves. But before the new machines were up and running, the company sold thousands of microcool gowns to the cdcs Strategic National stockpile of medical supplies, for use in future outbreaks and emergencies. Safety and health is conducting research on protective equipment. When it commissioned tests of gowns produced in 2014 for the stockpile, there were some sleeve failures in three out of four batches tested. Are federal or state authorities looking into this at all . Avenatti i cant comment on that. They certainly should be because forget about the civil liability this is criminal conduct. Cooper in its most recent annual report, Halyard Health said it had been served with a subpoena that is related to a United States department of justice investigation. The Justice Department and the food and drug administration, which regulates medical devices, declined to comment further. The companys said to us basically, theres no evidence that anybody got sick or or died directly related to a failure of any gowns. If it was so egregious wouldnt there be many cases or even one clear case that you could point to that says, look, there was ebola or hiv or any other disease . Avenatti until now why would any doctor or nurse have any reason to question Kimberly Clarks representations regarding the effectiveness of this gown. This story may, in fact, be the first time that physicians and nurses who have contracted disease take a step back and say, you know, maybe thats how i got it. Cooper since our story first aired, one of the people we interviewed former marketing director Bernard Vezeau died of a heart attack. And last month, f. D. A. Inspectors showed up at Halyard Healths corporate offices, asking to see documents regarding its microcool gowns. 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Stahl one sector of our economy after the next is being disrupted by new apps and web sites, like bookstores, taxis, hotels. Could the Banking Industry be next on the list . As we first reported in may, thousands of startups are challenging many aspects of banking. The newcomers argue that this important sector is too set in its ways. Its being called the Financial Technology or fintech revolution. We looked at the birth of one Fintech Company founded by two young fintechies who started not unlike the founders of facebook and microsoft. Which one of you dropped out of harvard . John collison that was me. Stahl and which one of you dropped out of m. I. T. . John collison by elimination Patrick Collison right, i was the other one. Stahl brothers patrick and John Collison quit college because they had an idea for industry they thought needed a shaking up. Patrick collison in a world where people can send a facebook message or sort of upload an Instagram Photo and have it available to anyone anywhere in the world like that, i think the fact that that doesnt work for money is something that seems kind of increasingly, honestly, unacceptable to people. And so, i think the question for banks is just can they get there first in providing these services . Or will it be somebody new . Stahl they want to be the somebody new. John, 26, and patrick, 27, first notice were in high school in dromineer, a dot of a town in ireland. And you were coders . John collison yeah, we had both learned to program growing up, and we had been building iphone apps, we had been building web services. Stahl but when they wanted to charge people to buy the apps they hit an unexpected snag they had to go to the bank and file paperwork just to be able to collect the money. Patrick collison like really sort of kind of like getting a convince them that you were worth supporting John Collison and like a mortgage, it would have to be approved. Patrick collison right, exactly. And it would take sort of weeks for this approval process to happen. And it just seemed sort of like this crazy mismatch. Stahl so they decided to do something about it. They created software that allows businesses to cut through all that bureaucracy and instantly accept payments online from countries across the globe. We visited their startup, stripe, in the mission district, the heart of san franciscos tech scene, where patrick showed me how fast a business could set up a moneycollection system using stripe. Set me up pretend i left 60 minutes to create an online business. Patrick collison what do you want to sell . Stahl i think im going to sell dog food. Homemade dog food. In five minutes, after a few clicks and a cut and paste of their code, he said my company would be ready to receive payment for homemade dog food online, right then and there. Patrick collison it doesnt stahl and this is what would take weeks and weeks and weeks and forms and forms and verification and Patrick Collison and going to the bank branch and waiting for paperwork to be mailed back to you and all this stuff. Stahl they developed software for buy buttons, letting companies accept payments online fast and in new ways. Stripe charges sellers a small percentage for every transaction. Does the buyer pay anything . Patrick collison the buyer pays nothing. Stahl nothing . Patrick collison correct. Stahl their goal is to make money as easy to send as email. For everyone, anywhere, on any device. Patrick collison we want to free businesses from just selling via credit cards, you know, to people who hold bank accounts, and instead, enable people to Purchase Online no matter what it is that they use, bank account or no. Stahl and of course this needed the smart phone, it needed this move to mobile. Patrick collison for sure. Stahl stripe is hardly alone in inventing new Financial Technology or fintech. Theres a revolution Brewing Companies trying to make banking faster and cheaper and increasingly mobile. John collison many of the Innovative Services in Financial Technology that have come along in the past ten years are not coming from banks. Stahl but by and large, the newcomers are not challenging the core function of banks taking deposits. Even the startups themselves park the money they handle at f. D. I. C. Insured banks. Patrick collison i think therell always be a need for sort of somewhere to store your money, to havesi and we think, you know, for all their flaws, they have a lot of experience at being banks, right . Stahl but fintech is targeting nearly all the other functions of banking. The startups are peeling off one Profitable Service after another, typically offering them for less. Its called unbundling the banks. Say you need a loan. Fintech sites match borrowers and lenders directly the way uber connects passengers with algorithms are replacing human advisers and brokers. Apps, like venmo, let people click money to each other similar to texting. And if you want to wire money across borders taavet im sending 500. Stahl the c. E. O. Of a Company Called transferwise showed us how his app can send money abroad and convert currencies, say dollars into pounds, without bank tellers and High Exchange rates. And a couple of clicks and, boom. Taavet click, click, done. Stahl do you think that the big banks today see these fintech startups as the barbarians at the gate . Vikram pandit well, theres certainly a lot of curiosity. Stahl what about fear . Pandit there can be some fear. Stahl vikram pandit, the former c. E. O. Of banking giant citigroup, says its the all toofamiliar tale of david and goliath. Pandit a lot of what youre seeing in fintech is like what youre seeing with uber or airbnb. Of technology on travel. Stahl is that what fintech is doing to banking . Pandit its early days. And you know, banks are thinking about it, and theyre trying to understand what all this new technology can mean. Stahl it could mean trouble with millennials willing to ditch brand Name Companies for new apps on their phone. Max levchin the banks have not realized how different this generation is. Stahl max levchin, who co founded paypal and was an early investor in stripe, cites a adults would rather go to the dentist than to a bank. Levchin they dont really have a problem putting their Social Security number into a web form, but they have a terrible problem going up to a teller in a bank, and trying to figure out what exactly youre supposed to do. This is so inefficient. Why am i in this stogy, outdated room that is empty and marble laden . Stahl and its not just about technology. Theres also a question of trust. The millennials, their basically financial crisis. Theyre the ones who really dont trust the banks. Pandit and we know that many banks served their own interests more than those of their consumers. Stahl youre criticizing a system, basically, that you helped create. Pandit well, theres no question the crisis demonstrated that the system didnt work. And when you looked at the aftermath of the crisis, what needed to be done. You had to make sure banks got back to the basics of banking, and that they had to address the trust issue. Stahl but in the meantime fintech started taking root. In the last year and a half, investors have poured over 20 billion into the sector, including this banking insider whos personally invested in a dozen fintech startups. He says that beyond making banking more convenient, these companies can offer options to lowerincome families that cant afford to bank at banks; ten dont even have a bank account. You know, ive read that it is more expensive for a poor person to use the Banking System as it exists than for a wealthy person. How is that possible . Pandit there are Bank Account Fees on your checking accounts. There are commissions, there are exchange rates. It all adds up. Stahl and that doesnt happen with the new companies . Pandit the new companies, theyre transparent and they tell you what the fees are. And they are fraction of some of the fees that are charged by banks. John collison as services move onto the internet, they can provide the services more cheaply. And you know many of these banks, they have hundreds of thousands of employees. Whereas as we see Financial Services moving online, they dont have to have a physical presence and pay for that. So you can eliminate hidden fees if your cost structure is lower. Stahl and im hearing eliminate jobs. I mean were talking about hundreds of thousands of jobs in the banking sector. Tellers and, you know, financial advisors, you name it. General technology always sort of makes some jobs less relevant, or perhaps, even obsolete, but i will say that the idea that sort of these people will find nothing else to do seems like its way too pessimistic on the capabilities of everyone as human beings, right . These stahl have you looked at the employment scene right now . Patrick collison i think itll take a while to adjust. But when you think about just the creativity of people and what theyre capable of and the sort of aspirations and dreams that they have, the idea that theyre not capable of anything more than sort of performing these automatable clerical tasks, i dont believe that for a second. Stahl there are issues with fintech that go beyond the loss of banking jobs. Letting these new companies handle your money could be risky because there are concerns theyre inadequately regulated. And theres also the issue of online security. Patrick collison people have been trying to steal money for as long as money has existed. And, the best we can sort of sort of design security in the most thoughtful and sort of robust way possible. And thats what we set out to do with stripe. Stahl and its not like the big banks havent been breached by hackers. So is fintech the next uber . Well, its still a small slice of the financial industry. And the powerful and rich old guard is fighting back, its lobby already pushing for more regulation to curb the newcomers; and scrambling to increasingly investing in and partnering with fintech, some looking at a technology called blockchain thats behind Digital Currencies like bitcoin. Patrick collison i think its kind of human nature to always want to see these things as a competitive dynamic, that either Technology Companies have to win or the banks have to win and one of them is going to lose. John collison its not as black and white. Patrick collison yeah. Stahl do you think what you have can be brought to a bank like wells fargo or j. P. Morgan can they integrate this or its either one or the other . Patrick collison i think they can be part of it, they can be part of sort of the infrastructure that powers it. And, again, we work with wells fargo and many other banks today. But i think that they can only be part of it. They cant be sort of the agents driving it forward. Stahl he says that over one in four americans online have used stripe in the last year, including on sites like facebook and twitter, and Department Stores like saks and macys. The software is embedded on both apple pay and android pay, and its already helped hundreds of thousands of businesses accept money online. Patrick collison there you go stahl oh even though stripe has some stiff competition, like paypal, the brothers have made two covers of forbes and the four yearold company is now valued at 5 billion. Not bad for two brothers who not long ago had to beg their bank branch for approval. This, its not clear that automatically, the existing financial players are the ones who are going to win. Stahl even though theyre huge and powerful. John collison i mean, there were plenty of huge retailers before amazon, but somehow, this little, you know, upstart from seattle you know, in just a few short years, gobbled gobbled up the business. Stahl banks are so rich. Do you worry that they are going to come and buy you out . Patrick collison well, luckily we have a say in that. And we want to build a longterm independent company. Stahl oh laughter in the months since we first broadcast this story, the fintech world suffered a black eye. Lendingclub, once the poster child of online loans, has been tarnished by revelations of improper lending. Its led to the ouster of its c. E. O. , a Justice Department investigation, shares dropping and discussion of more this cbs sports update is brought to you by the lincoln motor company. This afternoon in rio, the United States beat serbia in the mens basketball gold medal game in dominating fashion. Kevin durant had 30 points at team u. S. A. Wins its third consecutive gold medal and six of last seven in olympic play. Overall it was the 46th gold medal for team u. S. A. , giving them a commanding lead in the final medical count with 121 co more nor sports news and information, go to cbssports. Com. This has been steve obermeyer reporting. Ay and you stay put. Taking the legwork out of stop and go traffic. And even hills. Thats the more human side of engineering. This is the lincoln summer invitation, hurry in now to your dealer for limited time offers. Lease a lincoln mkx for 349 a month or get 0 apr for 60 months if youve gone to extremes to escape your nasal allergies. Try clarispray. New, from the makers of claritin. And nothing is more effective at relieving your sneezing, runny nose and nasal congestion. Return to the world. Try clarispray today. Im going first. No youre not, you went first last time. Why are those lines on my floor . A distance contest. I already made it from this line. Lifes bleachable moments need clorox bleach. Jamie foxx here for verizon. Did you know verizon has more than three times the 4g lte coverage of sprint . And im jamie foxx for sprint. Pretty much the same coverage if you squint. You are not jamie foxx sprint is last nationally in 4g lte coverage. Well, who is going to notice . What about the left side of the country, huh . This part of texas, california, new york, et cetera . announcer vo dont get fooled by cut rate networks. Get the best. And now get up to four free Samsung Galaxy phones, four lines and sixteen gigs for just onefifty. Woman its been a journey to get where i am. And i didnt get here alone. There were people who listened along the way. People who gave me options. Kept me on track. And through it all, my retirement never got left behind. So today, im prepared for anything we may want tomorrow to be. Every someday needs a plan. Pelley this past fall, we told you about a ship named for st. Joseph that sank in a terrible storm more than 200 years ago. Half the passengers survived, but the sea closed over more than 200 men, women and children who were locked below the deck. You would think a disaster like that would be legendary, but the st. Joseph was a slave ship, and the screams bursting from the hold were the cries of today, the silence of those lost voices is unbearable to lonnie bunch. Hes the founding director of the Smithsonians National museum of African American history and culture, scheduled to open in september in washington. Bunch found that to tell history, the smithsonian would have to make history. And so began a quest for the remains of a shipwreck in a land so unchanged that an 18th century slave would recognize it today as the last shore he called home. Mozambique island defies the erosion of time. The portuguese colonists who claimed it 500 years ago would still find the cut of the cloth that borrows the wind as familiar as the cut of the stone that framed their city. Capital of the slave trade because he was determined to launch americas new National Museum on the remains of a ship. Lonnie bunch i thought it wouldnt be hard, so i called museums around the world and said, okay, look, you must have some things. You must know where i can get some material. And everybody said, nope. And they said to me, well, lonnie, almost every slave ship was at the end of its life, so its probably at the ocean floor. And then i got scared. Then i thought, well, im not going to be able to find this. Pelley mozambique isla south of the equator. It was one of the points in what was called the triangular tradegoods from europe to africa, slaves to the new world, and cotton, gold and tobacco back to the old. In the 1400s, the portuguese were the first europeans to trade in slaves, and they became the largest, followed by the english, french, spanish and dutch. On Mozambique Island, the they called st. Sebastian for the Christian Martyr who was captured, chained, and murdered in rome in the year 288. The irony of that name was the only thing here the portuguese failed to grasp. You know, when you look at the enormous effort that went into building this fort, they were protecting something that was hugely valuable to them. Bunch they recognized that the key to their future as nations with Economic Prosperity was the slave trade. Pelley the fort oversaw the trafficking of more than 400,000 slaves. Bunch was certain there had to be evidence of a ship, and he soon discovered he wasnt the only one looking. Decio muianga give me a hand. Pelley he found a group of researchers calling themselves the slave wrecks project, and they were following a promising lead. What do we find down here . Muianga a very interesting thing. Pelley Decio Muianga is a the slave wrecks project locate the beginning of the story. Muianga this is a tunnel that was used to put slaves inside the island, or put them out of the island, as well. Pelley under the old portuguese town, tunnels connected holding pens to the sea. The devout portuguese preferred to keep slaves in transit out of sight. How were these slaves captured . Muianga some individuals, african individuals, specialize in capturing slaves. So, theyll go and raid villages and they walked, chained, all the way from there to here. And of course, lots of them died on the way. Pelley so these were africans. Muianga yes. Pelley . Capturing africans . Muianga yes. Yes, it was not only a business for the portuguese the europeans in this case but also for the some of the local chiefs, as well. Pelley those local chiefs came to this auction house to sell captives to european clients. Bunch a male in the late 1,500, which is probably about, oh, 9,000 to 15,000 today. Pelley this was incredibly lucrative. Bunch in the years before the civil war, the amount of money invested in slaves was more than the amount of money invested in railroads, banks, and businesses combined. This was the economic engine of europe and the United States. By the time you got here. Pelley the enslaved marched from the auction house down this ramp and on to the ships. Bunch what you probably had was almost an assembly line. Youd bring people, youd sell people. Then, you would move them onto the boats and off to the new world. Pelley what does black america need to hear, in your estimation, from the echoes off these steps . Bunch i think all americans need to recognize that, as tragic and horrible as slavery as it cast, the one thing it didnt do was strip people of their humanity. And i wish that all of us were as strong as the people that walked down those steps and got on those boats. Steve lubkemann were wading out into the tidal flats. Pelley if lonnie bunch was to find his slave ship, he would need steve lubkemann, cofounder of the slave wrecks project. Hes an anthropologist from George Washington university who believes that slavery is the greatest story in maritime archaeology. Lubkemann think about the way in which computers nowadays affect all of our lives. Its not just. It doesnt affect just the computing industry. Everything is interlinked and depends on this. And the slave trade, in its time, was truly the equivalent. It reached into and influenced and created the modern world. Pelley even so, its not likely much has survived were not talking about a hull that youre going to find down there, and masts, and all of that, that you would imagine in your minds eye . Lubkemann we dont find intact ships. We find parts of ships, you have to go underneath the water, add some difficulty to this, find the pieces, try to put them back together. And put together the story that you can. Pelley the story lubkemann was searching for wasnt discovered underneath the water. His ship was lost in the dry south africa, which reach back to the 1600s. The slave wrecks project had been diving into these binders for months when they discovered the st. Joseph, known in portuguese as the sao jose. The sao jose arrived at Mozambique Island in 1794. The cargo manifest records 1,500 iron bars for ballast and more this is a cargo sketch from a different, but typical, ship. Paul gardullo is a historian of slavery and curator of the smithsonian museum. Paul gardullo bodies and souls laid side by side with no room to move, no sanitation. Many people on these voyages died. Pelley how long was that journey . Gardullo a journey like the one the sao jose took would. Could take up to four or more months. Pelley this is slavery on a Global Industrial scale. Gardullo from about 1500 through the 19th century, through the late 1800s, were talking about at least 12 million people. Pelley off cape town, south africa, the captain of the sao jose was caught between a Violent Storm and a nautical chart spiked with warnings whittle rock, bellows rock, the sao jose crashed, 212 slaves were killed. And because money had been lost, there was an investigation. Interviews with survivors have survived. Lubkemann this is the crews account, and right here, we have the captains account. And he signed his name here, 220 years ago. Pelley incredible. Lubkemann he said he decided to save the slaves and the people. The people are the crew; the slaves are just cargo. Pelley the 200yearold investigation pinpointed the site. And in 2010, divers, responding to a metal detector, discovered bars of iron. One of those divers is jaco boshoff, an archaeologist with south africas iziko museum, and lubkemanns partner in founding the slave wrecks project. Bars we mentioned a moment ago on the sao jose manifest, the ballast for the ship. So you actually were excavating the sand on the sea bottom, this stuff was under the sand. Jaco boshoff under the sand. Pelley so youre in how much water . Boshoff about five meters of water. Pelley about 15 to 20 feet of water . Boshoff thats correct. Pelley and then these are two feet under the sand below that. Boshoff thats right. Pelley turns out Shallow Water only makes the work harder. Surf tosses the divers. And sand, vacuumed away, settles but, after more than 300 dives, this is what theyve recovered so far. These are nails that pinned sheets of copper over the hull for protection. What looks like a lump of concrete is marine growth on a wooden pulley block, similar to this one used to hoist sails and cargo. This xray shows the two white spaces where rope was threaded the divers discovered wood that a lab would later trace back to mozambique. And this may be the most revealing artifact of all masked by two centuries under the sea, xrays show a shackle, similar to this, used to bind slaves. Boshoff so theres a long bar running through. And shackles had. Often were on a long bar, the leg shackles especially. Pelley so a long iron bar with a round metal ring . Boshoff that sort of thing, and in this particular case, leg shackles. Pelley leg shackles . Boshoff thats right. Pelley have you found everything thats down there now . Boshoff no, not at all. Not even close. Weve got a lot more to do. Weve only scratched the surface at this stage. Pelley how can you be sure that the wreck you found off cape town is, in fact, the sao jose . Lubkemann there are certain types of artifacts that are found on this wreck that put us within a particular time but then there are other things that i think are very important. We have an account that gives enormous specificity, in terms of geographic location, and it tells us the bay in which it was located. Finally, we find a document in lisbon that says the sao joses manifest when it left lisbon, and the first item on that said, 1,500 bars of iron ballast. You put all of those different lines of evidence together, its almost statistically impossible that it could be anything else. Pelley they are the first artifacts known to be preserved from a ship on a voyage of slavery, and they will anchor the slavery exhibit this fall when lonnie bunch opens the National Museum of African American history and culture on the mall in washington. Bunch the story of slavery is everybodys story. It is the story about how were all shaped by, regardless of weve been in this country. We hope that we can be a factor to both educate america around this subject, but maybe more importantly, help americans finally wrestle with this, talk about it, debate it, because only through that conversation can we ever find the reconciliation, the healing that i think we all want. Lonnie bunch has some surprising ideas about how to here at outback, its the big steak crab bash. You get half a pound of sweet, snow crab legs. Paired with our new, tender,centercut sirloin. Hurry in. The outback steak crab bash starts at just 14. 99. We always were told we were german. We were in a german dance group. 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