And going able to do things that are really manufactured in a superior way. And i think were really obsessed with the way things are made, and learning about processes. Rose on the eve of the day 50 years ago that john f. Kennedy was assassinated, we talked to biographer robert caro about that day in dallas. About 40 minutes Lady Byrd Johnson was to say ken odonnell walks through the door, he campaigned with him all of life, she said seeing the strict enface of kenney odonnell who loved him, we knew. A moment later, another ken diede, mack killduff comes running into the room, runs over to johnson to get orders and says mr. President , its the first time that johnson has been really addressed like that. And at that moment, charlie, he takes command. Rose the craft of design with jony ive and marc newson and the day kennedy died through the eyes and reporting of robert caro when we continue it. Funding for charlie rose was provided by the following additional funding provided by these funders and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Tonight a special conversation with jony ive, apples chief of design and the man steve jobs desribed as his spiritual partner. And marc newson, a industrial designer who made everything from ca, jewelry, and airport tin terrier, they teamed up to apples red to auction the a sothebys to go to the global find to find aides. Ive and newson have known each other for 13 year, ive is almost as important to hell success as legendary c. E. O. Steve jobs. He is behind the designs for the i mac, ipod, i phones, and ios 7 the latest the it has helped apple sell millions of its products around the world. Newsons range as a design is unparalleled, so much so that the New York Times once asked, is there anything marc newson has not designedment his lockheed lounge chair has set World Records at auctions. Ive and newson have both redefined the boundaries between art and design, form and function. Their work has been featured in museums and earned them countless awards. We talk with jony and marc about the auction, their craft, and their friendship. Define for me what this exhibit is about . What in terms of the collection of objects, it was actually quite simple. It is a group of objects, each of them we both liked. And we had quite a clear criteria that we wanted them to be pieces of design, so theyre all functional. And theyre all capable of being made in volume, you know, en masse. But really it came down to objects that we, you know, we wanted to bid on and buy ourselves. But importantly, i dont think this is a survey of contemporary design. I done think this is probably this is not what people would have expected us to do. You know, we havent gone out and tried to kur rate an exhi business of the world of contemporary design. This is about objects that for us are deeply personal. Rose but its a collaboration . Among two great friends. Very much so. You know, jony and i sort of collaborate without even having to think about collaborating. We talk about this stuff all the time anyway so this simply simply a question of putting it in gear and actually doing something about it. Of course getting all of the objects was a different challenge all together. Because you know, thinking about this and actually getting people to donate these objects was challenging. How did it come about . It started with a phone call with bono. I think a couple of years ago, really. Thats certainly when we agreed that we would love to do this. We would love to do it together. And i think we started designing a couple of the pieces about a year and a half ago. But yeah, i think it was about two years ago. So bono calls up and says i have an idea. Yeah, i think originally the conversation was even, it was further than two years but he describe described actually his description was wonderful which was could you put together a collection that we would then auction off the whole thing, a collection that was, you know, could be in a museum. And then we just auction the whole thing. It sounded simple at the onseth onset but it was quite a tough challenge. The thing about design, the thing about what we do is that it is not necessarily mont to be expensive. I mean design is necessarily supposed to be accessible. And when faced with a situation where were trying to raise money. So this is not like art. Rose dow both share the same, i mean, tell me about the kinship in ideas. Kinship in approach, kinship in appreciation, kinship in sense of design and beauty and function. I think in some ways thats why we are the Close Friends that we are that we share the same few of the world and the same space and relate to the same attributes or aspects of an object. Most importantly, we really hate the same things. Hate the same things. Rose okay, so what do you hate . Well, i think one of the things that we i think one of the things that you see now that wasnt conscious when we started off on this journey, but that nearly all of these objects are tools, you know. Rose tools . Theyre tools it. Theyre not a means you know, theyre not an end unto themselves. They serve a bigger, a higher purpose. And i think one of the things that we generally dont like, when you have that sense of the design wagging the tail in your face. I mean, a lot of these pieces, its not clear, even to us, who actually designed them. Yeah. And so i think, you know, sometimes, i think one of the things that we respond to is that sense of almost inevitability. Of course its this way, there con be another sort of smart or rational alternative. So i think, you know, i think stuff thats just arbitrary irritates us. Yeah, the space suited, for example s a wonderful example of that type of object. I mean no one knows who designed that piece. But if it didnt work the way it did, the reallies would be simply catastrophic. Rose so its lifeanddeath here. Absolutely. Rose you design something that serves an important function. As is the window of the Space Shuttle that we have. I means thats just a very, very simple, seemingly simple piece of glass. But again its kind of makeorbreak. I mean its the ultimate its the ultimate manifestation in a way of what we do. Yet its designed anonymously. And its incredible beauty in something that is that resolute. You know, when failure, you know, you can measure failure so easily. Theres i think the incredible beauty to clarity. So are you asking about our sort of connection. I think thats one of the things almost at a preverbal level we see and sense and appreciate immediately. I would have thought that one of the things that you hate, because you love simplicity, i mean its almost like the holy grail, isnt it . For both of you. And so whatever is the opposite of simplicity would turn you off. Yeah, i think thats a fair comment but you know, sim police sit so complex in itself. I mean you know, it really is a full circle. Rose more complex to achieve than anything else. Absolutely. I mean when you say simplicity you simply dont see all of the hardship that it took to get there. Simplicity is not an aesthetic stichlt i mean its not the absence of clutter. Right. I mean then that would just be an aesthetic. But i think simplicity is refining and being able to define the very he sense of what something does. Finding the esence. And therefore you understand what it is, and you understand what it does. And but simplicity, i think for us, isnt just the its not just the absence of clutter. Its not just stuff thats not there. Theres tremendous, i think, sort of gravity to trying to find that very, very simple solution. But when you do, there is that that you think it almost hasnt been designed because it does seem so obvious. Sometimes almost bordering on naive. Rose naive. Because because it is just so clear that youre so used to seeing so much unnecessary stuff. That i think its very striking when you actually do come across something, that is so essential. Rose what is the process for finding this essence esence, this core, this simplicity . I think its a whole lot of things, really. I mean its not only about the process of its not only about the trade. Its not only about the the craft of design but its almost about having a cultural understanding as well. I mean so many of these pieces, so many of these objects, you know, are so rich with cultural background. And thats a really important part of design. You know, i think that as a designer you really in many ways i think you are obliged to have a really thorough understanding of contemporary culture. Its very hard to appeal to people unless you can give them a way of connecting with something on a cultural level. I think the camera say good example that we designed together with leica. And i think at the very beginning you have a sense of that sort of the essence of camera, so i think there is that part which is incredibly intuitive. And is right at the very beginning of the process. And then theres also that part of the process which is just the refining an retuning refining because there are so many things when it comes to implementation and how you actually make it real that could actually undermine that first big idea about, you know, to try and end up with something that really is very, very cameralike an was part of what you first saw, when we first talked about it. There are so many things it that would you know, distract you from what that first big idea was. But its really important as well i think to point out that its a struggle. You know, its really actually very, very difficult, you know, simplicity didnt mean it was easy. Rose an whats the hardest thing . I think the hardest thing is making something right. Its about combining all of the attributes that you like and trying to distill all those things into an object. And of course you as a designer understand, you know, what all of those things arement but most people that see these objects will look at it in a sort of courseary way and wont notice any of those things. We look at these objects and you know, breathe a sigh of relief. The camera is a great example of that. I mean its just so enormously complex. Would Something Like 900 prototypes. We made so many. It was ridiculous, actually. I mean it should, you know, it could have gone into production. It would have gone into production in the sense that you know, it is designed in every way to be mass produced. Of course it wont. There will only ever be one of those. You have designed a boat. You both love cars. Where does function come in in terms of design and the balance. I think it depends what it is, its a balance. All of the objects here, i think almost without exception have a very specific function and arguably are at the sort of top end of that sort of spectrum. I mean often you know we talk about function as if its in conflict with beauty. I actually dont think it is. I dont either but tell me why you dont think it is. Well, i mean,. Rose or has to be. I think the beauty is in the clear expression or function. Because so many of these, you know, one of the lots are a series of watch making tools and they all have very different, very specific functions. And its just the expression of that function is so clear and its not encumbered by an inability to implement the actual tool beautifully. And so often i think its just how you express the function in a clear way iss object and is whats beautiful. But one of the great things about a number of the objects in this exhi business is that the objects themselves in a sense define the function. If you take the air stream trailer. I mean its hard to imagine what trailers looked like, what caravans looked like before that object existed so thats a great example of an object that kind of defined its existence in a way. And the best objects can do that, really. Can sort of transcend that, that issue of functionality versus aesthetics, because they just sort of are what they are. The air stream is a lovely example because also its material that is made from, from aluminum, the fact that it is bare and its raw, the shapes, its this incredible very holistic solution between its form and what it does. And the actual material thats used. The craft, the object, i mean the saddle, is another wonderful object. I mean who knows why that thing looks the way it does. I mean there are so many reasons. But in many ways, the greatest objects have, in a sense evolved, really, through a whole variety of reasons. Cultural reasons. And again, the saddle is a really interesting object because its just so sort of inherently beautiful. I mean and also when you consider this is something that a lot of people wont realize, but its made in on the fourth floor, the third floor of the building in paris, the hermes shops still make the saddles in a room thats about you know. Rose does the process of Production Interest both of you . How its made . I think thats one of the things where we probably spend more time talking about how you make something than most other parts of process. Sort of all we really care about. Rose tell me about that. Well, you know, were obsessed with, i think one of the reasons we do what we do is because, you know, i think i can safely speak for jony, you know, were not collectors of design, you know, we dont do this to sort of acquire we dont aspire to own lots of this stuff. What really interests us about what we do is learning about materials, about technology, about different processes. And all of those things ultimately are about making things and making things well. And being able to do things that are really manufactured in a superior way. And i think were really obsessed with the way things are made. And learning about processes and i think thats one of the things that we do share is were incredibly inquisitive, very curious. And its generally not about when something was designed 4aosgn by who, its how it was made. And i think. Rose how did they do that. How did they do that. And whats that junction there, and what exact material was used to do this. And how well does it perform. But i think we naturally find that much more interesting in terms of somethings biography than when and who did it. You know, and for example the insides of things. The stuff that you dont see, you know, that jony and i will be holding it upside down and trying to kind of understand how that was dont i guess another interesting example would be the pitch of the george pitch per, an incredibly seamless object but it took someone three months to raise that piece from a flat sheet of silver. And its just such a wonderful its just such a wonderful sort of journey to understand. Rose this reminded me a bit of painters who will go to the museum and just be staring at someones painting that they like. And i once asked one who was staring at a painting, a wellknown painter. He said im just looking at how he did that. How did he make that stroke. And how did he create that color. Its all how did that thing of beauty happen. I think one of the things that you get a sense of is the degree of care. Yeah. How much did this group of people care to make this and make it right. And they didnt do it for themselves. Its in service to the people that are going to use or buy the product. And i think theres something, the humanity of that, i think is extraordinary. But i do think, as marc was saying, you know, how something is finished on the sign identify inside. I mean you can argue that youll never see it. But i think we believe and its very difficult to explain why, but i think part of the human condition is that we sense care. And sometimes its easier to realize that you sense carelessness. And were surrounded, our manufactured environment so much of it, you know, testifies to a complete lack of care. Which isnt whether, you know, thats not about your attitude towards an object, its about your attitude to each other. Rose yeah. And so i think that sort of commitment and passion and you know, become you know fanaticism of just really caring to get something right, whether youre going to see it or not. But we do that for each other. But its a very contemporary thing, in a way. I mean if you think about it, it really is one of the most sort of environmentally sustainable ways of approaching a problem. I mean i am often asked about, you know, how do i embrace the idea of sustainability in what i do. And i think for me the answer is that you just have to try to design great things that stand the test of time. You know, its the antithesis, if you design a wonderful object, a lot of the objects were surrounded by have stood the test of time which is also one of the things that makes them great. Rose steve had a great sense of caring that he knew what went into the inside of an iphone or an ipad. Where the screws were there and if he didnt like the placement of those screws, that kind of thing, is part of the legend of the collaboration between you and steve. I think its just part of a much broader picture. And so i think at the highest level its to try and make something great. The only way you can do that is to care, you know, to an extraordinary level. And i think many things then testify to that. Whether its how you finish the inside of something. How its assembled right away through to how you try to communicate its value or how you package it. But i think certainly one of the things we feel strongly about at apple is you know, that commitment to care and to trying to make the very best product that we can. Do you ever fail. One of the great things about design is that, you know, the process itself takes some time. So i think. Rose just ran out of time. I can safely say that during the gestation of a design, you know, theres plenty of time to cull it if its not looking good. The fact is you probably, you know, bad ideas dont often see the light of day. There are many opportunities to stop the thing in its tracks. Rose what kind of thing would stop it in its track. Well, if you feel that its just not working. Its very hard to say exactly. Rose i cant make it like i want to make it. Theres so may be reasons. I mean it may be sort of commercial reasons or, you know, in my case, you know, the client might not, you know, you and the client might not see eyetoeye on how it should be done. It just doesnt stack up or you just feel its not working the way it should. Or its not going to be, you have a sense of the fact that its just not going to be a great object. And then i think its such a great and liberating thing to be able to stop something. Its often something that you dont or by definition, these are things that you done see. Rose right. Some of the most important victories are those times that you say no. And that you decide not to make something. Nobody will ever know about that. Absolutely. And i any it takes. And not chasing an idea. If its not going to happen its to the going to happen. You stop and you start again. And i think thats, you know, probably quite a philosophical approach to many things that certainly in design i think its kind of all or nothing. You carry around a sketch book . Absolutely, yeah. For what purpose. My sketch book is really a visual diary, in fact. I dont use a sketch book to design. I use a