Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20140103

Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. The bomb maker told me an american prisoner of war had been turned. He was coming home to carry out an attack. And you believed this. He told me minutes before he was executed. So . So he was my prisoner, i interrogated him for months. He was cooperating at the end. There was no reason for him to lie. You think im that p. O. W. . Theres no one else it could be. Rose claire danes is here. She is there star of show times drama series homeland. She plays the role of Carrie Matheson, a brilliant but psychologically troubled c. I. A. Agent. One of the nations greatest losses on 9 11 was its illusion of invince ability. Claire matheson personified the countrys confusion. A green spen what i want. And blue is what is available. Green is important. Green is necessary. It doesnt make sense if it isnt green and its really not an unreasonable request. Carrie . Oh, thank god. My green pen is dry. I asked four, five, six times far new one but theres no understanding. They offer me blue, they offer me block. Is green so saturday . Is green elusive . I told them for a [no audio] green pen is she yours . Yes. She should go to her room. The doctor will be in. I amylaser focused. I believe theres more. The things i saw, the avenues here have methods and patterns and priorities, a single sniper, no, no. He would dont that. He never has, he never will. He goes big, he explodes. We know that. Slow down. Slow down. We have about a week, maybe less, to figure out the real target. Not this who shot the president spy novel 101 bull [no audio]. Thats the working theory. Its wrong. Its incomplete. Walker isnt even critical. Hes a pawn, no importance. Theres a bigger pernicious plot out there and we have little time. We have to code it, collide it, collapse it, contain it. Lie down, carrie. The doctors coming. The important thing now is the green pen. Rose so im pleased to have claire danes back at this table. Welcome. Thank you very much for having me. Rose we have done a program recently here in fact, today with a group of people talking about the third golden age of television. That this is such a great time for actors, for directors and for audience. Tell me about how homeland fits into this for you as an actor. Well, i think a lot of that has to do with the nature of Cable Television and how many liberties it affords creative people. And i started getting excited again by the show the wire which came out rose right. That came out quite a while ago now but i was just so profoundly impressed by that show and, you know, i got me eager to participate again in that medium and break through the screen and go from audience to participant. So, yeah, its just you know, people are now watching Television Like they read novels. They can really burro into a series and they dont have to wait for the commercial break. They they dont to be at their couch thursday at 8 00, you know . Rose they can be there saturday morning and watch three hours in a row. Exactly. They can binge. And the quality of the material has just kind of it keeps escalating and its really very thrilling. Rose homeland obviously is a Great Success because of the writing and acting and a very interesting narrative. But more than that, what is it that you think makes homeland such an obsession for so Many Americans . I mean, they dont like it. They get a little bit angry. laughs yeah, well, thats a sign that they care . Rose exactly right. Well talk about that. Ye, its when i read the pilot, you know, the ending was just so so well constructed and i was greedy for the next one and i got the sense that that would be the case with every episode and, you know, its its really provocative subject matter and its incredibly relevant to the whats happening right now and i that made me anxious, initially. Because if that you know, i didnt want to prey on peoples you will haver inment and vulnerability and these very heightened intense feelings that they havent had time to resolve as i said, because it is so current. But when i met with the show runners it became really clear to they were incredibly skilled and and they were they were experienced, skillful, and decent and they were not going to be jerks. Rose it has also that element of it seems to me you dont know whos good and bad. You dont. No. Everybodys flawed. And, you know, everybody is trying their best, you know . But their ideas of what best is are often conflicting. But, yeah, i think it captured a new kind of anxiety and selfdoubt and insecurity that we as a nation are coming to terms with. And, you know, i dont think that there has been a reputation of that in television. Rose does it still surprise you in the third season what carrie does . Yes. It does. I just i just finished filming the finale of the third season about five days ago so its still very raw and rose oh, tell us laughs yeah. And actually i havent seen any of the show beyond the third episode of this season. Rose you mean watching it yourself . Yeah, i mean i filmed it but i havent seen it played back. And its always different when its gone through the editing process and so im not entirely sure what it is. Rose but is it any different terms of watching it there when you see everything rather than just your particular part . Oh, yes, its very different. Its very different from when im actually filming it and i go oh, yeah, mandy was working as it turns out. But, yeah, it changes. I mean, it goes through that filtering process and it becomes you know, whatever it was destined to be. But, yeah. Its still very fresh and alive and the writers need to make it that way for themselves so, you know rose what does that mean for themselves . Well, i think they want to remain engaged. Rose it has to be interesting to them to create the character. Theyre always finding ways to reimagine it and reinvent it andty think every season will have a different character. A different nature, different tone, be in a slightly different context. So well get to experience these characters who were becoming familiar with but in new environments. Rose just tell me who carrie is in your mind. Well, carrie is kind of a superhero. And she she is a true patriot. I mean, shes as people are in the c. I. A. Thats theyre not kidding about that. Rose its about country. It is about country. Rose its almost about anything for country. Anything for country. And thats the show explore what is that means. And its a very lonely deeply lonely and isolating profession. And, you know, they take incredible risks, personal risks on behalf of their country and they cant tell anyone about you know, those risks and you know, except for people within that world which is pretty tiny. Rose in fact, as you obviously know and ive talked to people about, there is that the heroes at the c. I. A. Building in langley but they cant tell those public stories of people who did heroic things that may have been killed in action or otherwise. Right. Right. And their failures are well publicized and their successes are not. Rose you talk to the character is there one person that your character represents in terms of the way the writers write care spree in. There is a woman who is very successful, a case officer who has been kind of the model for carrie. But, you know, shes shes a little bit less insane. Rose laughs no, no rose so carrie is insane . Yeah, she is. She is. Rose you got a bit of that in that clip. And i but this woman who has served as the model met me for lunch one day just before i did the pilot and offered whatever insight she could and kind of organized a little field trip for know go to langley and she asked some of her colleagues to spend a couple hours in a room with me sharing their experiences and it was so wild and so riveting it was really one of the most mind blowing rose have some of those things worked their way into this . Well, theyve definitely worked their way into my performance. But i remember when i mentioned that my character would be bipolar they all literally laughed. Rose because they knew bipolar among thems . Well, no, because it was just it seemed so impossible that anybody with a condition like that would find themselves rose would make it through. Yeah. Within the wall of rose so what do you think of the bipolar part of carrie . Well, its useful. In the terms of our in the telling of our story. It gives you a place to spread every acting wing you have. Yes, and it also serves the genre. Shes you know, shes an unreliable narrator and shes paranoid but actually has reason to be paranoid and its an exciting paradox. Rose and theres this aspect that she says in maybe the beginning of every episode but its frequently said that shes torn, she regrets the fact, she is haunted by the fact that she could have stopped 9 11. Its easy for me, too, yes, to think about her condition in relationship to her work because she never takes her health and safety for granted. Shes sort of sitting on this bomb, so to speak and shes not afforded the kind of luxuries that most of us are afforded. She cant take her health for granted. She cant be complacent or naive and so its so its easy for her to extrapolate and maintain that kind of hypervigilance in relationship to her country. And also i think of her kind of as edward scissorhands. Shes very aware of the kind of havoc that her condition can wreak in intimate relationships so she doesnt dare allow herself to become close with anyone. Rose she cant become close because she has enough knowledge of self to yes. So she has already has made a lot of sacrifices. She doesnt feel that shes capable or deserving of real closeness with another person so her life is already kind of emotionally barren and therefore its easier to give it up in order to do her very risky work. Rose her lover is the c. I. A. Yes, her lover is the c. I. A. Rose the man i can depression of it, it is said that in order to how could you, i would just add, how could you get closer to understanding that mind . Rose it was a really fascinating process and before i did the process i just gorged on any bit of material that i could find on the subject and i met with a woman who a woman called julie fast who is bipolar and has written a number of books on it. I talked to my friends who are psychologists and have bipolar patients. And but ultimately the most useful resource was the internet of course. Rose and youtube. And youtube. And there are a lot of bipolar people who have these vlogs. Video diaries and so you know its one thing to read about the condition, its another to be able to observe. T behavior of someone who is in a panic state. And, you know, so that was very really, really very helpful for me to kind of just make sense of their mannerisms and hear the rhythm of their voice and theres the light side of it, too. When you were accepted the hasty pudding award last year you said im just working my way through the d. S. M. 5 well when i first started going to school, to college, i assumed id be a psychology major until i realized there was a lot of lab work involved and that was not as interesting but, yeah, ive always been interested in psychology and so im just delighted to have an excuse to think deeply about that still. But in the context of acting. Rose how is carrie evolving over the three were now halfway through episodes in the year three. Shes having rough go of it this season. Shes in a pretty bleak place. All the characters are, actually. The c. I. A. Did blow up last season so we are we are kind of recovering from the devastation of that. Rose and also wanting revenge. Yes, and wanting revenge. But its also its interesting because one of our key writers in the show died in march just as their writers were starting to design the season and i think its always going to be a fairly mournful season but henrys loss, i think, really influenced the writers and as they were writing. Rose how so . I think they were sad. Rose laughs oh, i see. I think they were really sad to lose their friend. Rose and so the sadness permeated the story. Sadness permeated the story. Its a very dark season. Rose and you know some people werent happy about this, as you know. Yes. Rose because youve got you have brody in venezuela. We have you sort of under stress. Right. Everybody was rose and weve got great distress and nobody is having very much fun. But there was this the cons that they were playing and, yeah thinking it was a bold choice on the part of the writers to share that so many episodes in, halfway through season, but its almost like they want to see you and brody together. Thats what they want. Yes. Yes, they do. The but they will theyll see them again. Rose just wait laughs patience. Rose think how good weve been to you yeah. No, i think its were theyre starcrossed lovers. Rose and will again. Yes, and anyway its one of those perfect impossible loves. You broke my heart, you know. Was that easy for you . Was this fun . Because of you i questioned my own sanity. I had myself committed to a mental institution. I lost my job, too. I lost my place in the world. I lost everything. I just told those people the truth. You were harassing my family. The truth . Bull [no audio] you came this close to blowing into a million pieces. Did you tell them that . I didnt wear a bomb did you even think about me when you went tostys . Rose one more time, though. Why are they desperately attracted to each other . Because they i dont think they can even i dont think they know. But i think they see they recognize the pain in each other and the kind of disenfranchisement and the other of the other and they have great empathy for each other and compassion and rose and believe each other . Yes, i think they believe in each other and i also think that they start working together. They have a working relationship and rose and she has to escape. And they have a common goal and then, yeah, ultimately, you know, their lives are are are dependent on each other. Rose to hear you talk about this means that it makes it like such a wonderful acting challenge. Its a wonderful acting challenge. Its a lot of fun. Mistakes are always preposterously high. Rose shes a risk taker. Shes a risk taker. Huge risk taker. Rose and courageous. And courageous and always right rose exactly. It turns out rose laughs just a delightful thing to play. Rose yes, exactly i told you so i told you so i told you so yeah, shes always she always prevails. But they do make her go through the mud. I mean, she has to work for those victories. Rose and live with her pain. And live with her pain. Yeah. It is as i said, i just finished filming. Im pretty spent. Im pretty spent. Im a little im drained. Im tired and i i really need to disengage far little while and return to my kind of bonnie infant and rose you need quiet time away from so many demons. And you need some loving. I do. And im not a kind of methody actor. Rose i know that. I really am not but you just there is something to i have to host a lot of very, very dark feelings and thought miss hours a day and it does something to ones chemistry and psychology, i think. So and its not and, you know, in about a months time it will occur to me that im actually fine. Rose laughs im actually pretty happy. Rose you know, im not what i no, not what i play on t. V. Rose its almost like youre saying i have come to live with the idea that im manicdepressive and cant love and then suddenly you have to it takes you time to get away from that in order to find piece you have in your real life. Exactly. Exactly. And i love her. I mean, i love her and i admire her and i so wish i could beer in so many ways. Rose i love her, i admire her, i wish i could be her. Yes, but i am not and its a good thing for everyone. Rose you love her because of the courage she has . Obsession she snaz i love her because shes ultimately a virtuous person. She always does the good, right, and brave thing and shes shes shes selfsacrificing and shes deeply responsible, you know . She is shes terrified of incurring harm or injury on anyone else. And she will give everything to protecting decent people from evil, you know . Its very extreme. But its true. Rose what we havent said is she is witheringly smart. She is very smart, yeah, and she doesnt suffer fools and she doesnt apologize for her intelligence and thats thats really a lot of fun. And women dont get to be that way. Rose yes. Yeah. Very often. And i think her condition affords her that, too. And i think that actually, you know, when youre theres a certain point in ones mania because theres always an arc, you know, when the mania sets in. And when youre hypoman i can, when the mania starts to build there is like a sweet spot where you are the smartest american the room. Where your brain is working faster and more efficiently and you are able to connect dots at an astonishing rate and gain insight very quickly into amazing worlds and all that. Rose one of the things that people talk about in the performance is the plasticity of your body, so to speak. You know what i mean . Its the notion of you are using you saw hit in the piece there. You are using physicality in a really compelling way. Well, i started rose dancing. I was a dancer and i loved movement and im really interested in it and its true that one of the interesting things about playing somebody with a mental kind of condition is that it affects the body. Rose exactly. The brain controls the muscles and everything else. Thats always a fascinating thing to explore. I mean, damian plays a junky in this season because he becomes addicted to heroin and it was kind of wonderful to watch him make sense of that physically as an actor and to see him go through or render the experience of withdrawing from the drug. Rose mandy. Rose mandy. That role that he plays and the relationship there. Tell me about that. Well, hes a virtues who i can performer, he really is. And hes a musician and a brilliant one and i think he briles his muse musicality to the control. Rose in terms of voice . Yes, in terms of voice. Rose and thats what i love about him. There is something about his voice that is knowing and experienced and wide. Rose yes. And deep. Rose oh, very much so. Rose and the voice says its just the way he says your name. Oh, yeah. Its a he sings the performance. Rose exactly right. And hes such a good person and hes a very kind of geeky, thoughtful, deeply feeling person and he brings that to saul. But, you know, i remember when we did the first read through of the pilot it was electric. I mean, there was just a kind of chemistry that we had. I was not prepared for it at all but carrie is so shes man psychoshe has a very staccato style of speaking and he hes a little laconic and the contrast is really groovy. Have you seen this . Carrie of course you have. We know we hate things getting out into the press unless of course we put them out there ourselves. Thats not whats happening. You dont think i know what you are doing . I know exactly what you are doing. Youre am i . Why dont we ask him, your little lap dog, except hes trying to kill. Breathe, carrie, youre making a mistake. Was that a threat . Sit down, have some dessert. Theres nothing to talk about. Take your [no audio] hands off me. Sit on me until she calms down. Brody was your operation solved. Remember that . You proposed it, you censored it you ran it. Rose he seems to me i dont know who he talked to, what made his role patterned his role after who or who gave you insight like your c. I. A. Person but you can just say yeah, thats what i think that smart c. I. A. Person would be. Right. Yes, well i remember, too, in the first season when i was trying to make sense of what it was to interrogate someone. Rose exactly. How do you run an interrogation so i was kind of i was talking to mandy about that. Like how are you fairing . How are you doing this . And he said well, i listen to the subject and i lauchb close my eyes and hear the spiel, the pitch, and find the truth in the sound of the voice. That was a musicians take on it snoochlt. Rose thank you. Thank you. Rose great to see you. Nice to see you, too. My name is Nicholas Brody and im sergeant in the United States marine corps. I have a wife and two kids who i love. By the time you watch this youll have read a lot of things about me, about what ive done. Rose damian lewis is here. He stars in homeland his khark sister Nicholas Brody, an American Marine taken prisoner of war and turned into a terrorist. Johnny davis writes in esquire magazine i was brainwashed. People will say that i was turned into a terrorist. Taught to hate my country. I love my country. What i am is a marine like my father before me and his father before him and as a marine i swore an oath to defend the United States of america against enemies both foreign and domestic. My action this day is against such domestic enemies. The Vice President and members of his National Security team who i know to be liars and war criminals responsible for atrocities they were never held accountable for. This is about justice for 82 children whose deaths were never acknowledged and whose murder is a stain on the soul of this nation. Rose it may surprise viewers to learn that the man who plays primarily american roles is, in fact, british. I am pleased to have damian lewis at this table for the first time. Welcome. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Rose anything surprising about that that this american army, marine a marine who is so much a part of this very Popular Television series playing an american as a british actor . Im constantly surprised that im asked to play americans but i rose this is not the first and not the First Military person, either. Well, no, i think well i can tell you definitely. It all started with band of brothers and i was cast as a needle in a haystack. They didnt know me, they hadnt heard of me but they were going to shoot a portion of it, in fact pretty much all of it in the u. K. And they knew they were going use some british actors. I dont think they expected to find major richard winters in england. But they did. For whatever reason. Im very happy they did because it was a great and interesting role to play. The project was realized with such perfection and care to detail and to the truth it was like a social document and i had dialect lessons. Rose yes, exactly. And i was absolutely conscious of playing an american and since then and right up to the point where im now playing Sergeant Brody in homeland i have had fewer and fewer dialect lessons to the point where in homeland i just show up for work and i rose and its there. Speak in an american accent. So much so that i go to the Grocery Store from north carolina, harris tweeter. Rose i know it. So i go there on a saturday morning and i speak the girls at the checkout in an american accent. Theres no reason for me to do it but sometimes i just wake up and thats because i spend the best part of half a year as an american. Rose why does this series which had as its predecessor a series in israel, what is about it . What is the conflict . What is the well, i have i have a i have a small theory about the sort of cultural life here in the states if i may which is predicated on fear and i think theres a tremendous fear of other here which was brought home to roost in a devastating and tragic way in 9 11 when america sort of realized to what extent they hadnt quite got a grip of what was going on across the way there on the other side of the world and the degree to which animositys have set in. And i think homeland, 24 initially tapped into that. Homeland taps into something further down the line which is a fear and an uncertainty of that which we dont know. I find it here a lot in i find it here actually perpetrated in commercials all the time. Theres a fear of a disease, were sold medications endlessly were sold the fear of political groups. Of different ethnic groups, of different nationalities. And i think people kind of like being scared. People like being scared and i think this homeland has a pessimistic world view, quite a bleak world view that everywhere every institution and every individual is damaged but we make the best we can, we get on those as best we can with those damaged individuals and those damaged institutions, protecting us from those other things that we know little about. Rose i agree with all of that and but its also to me much of it is gray. While there are these very strong polls of combat and conflict and obsession about the other, theres also the grayness of the characters. While they have strength and personality and theyre made of up of so many interesting elements, we dont really know where their center is. You know that carrie is patriotic. You know that we dont quite know about you other than we know that whatever is at the core is strong, right . I think, you know, theres probably ban growth in the antihero trade. The flawed hero. Again, i know sneb a little bit of a hook that we all hang our hat on but its probably true to say that the antihero, the flawed hero has grown since then. Rose breaking bad being a perfect example. Quite. There was a time for gary cooper. We knew he was good and he was going to fight the bad guys and he was unequivocally good. And now perhaps its more complicated. As you say, Carrie Matheson this brilliant maverick intuitive smart dynamic woman who is at the same time damaged in many ways partly due to her Mental Illness be that she suffers from so shes an unreliable narrator, if you like. Brody in his turn was man who joined up to become a marine to go and defend his country, fight for his country as a result of 9 11 was caught, incarcerated, tortured brutally, both physically and mentally, and his life was never the same again. He was turned into an unstable agent. At times irrational, certainly damaged and i think certainly in the first season pit represented the threat, no question. And everybody was terrified of him. Whats happened to this guy when he was away what was he thinking and what is he going to do to us . And at the same time and this is the brilliance of the writing because we were also able to simplify the khark her two had been sent to war and whose family missed him terribly, who was a regular joe with two kids, a dog maybe and a nice job before he went away, he represented on some level every man. He represented the ordinary american joe. And we were terrified of him at the same time. So by towards the end of the season when he does the unspeakable, strap on a suicide vest and insinuate himself in into a situation with the Vice President you think oh, my god, hes going to blow him up, hes going to commit a terrorist act. Even in that moment i believe there were some people thinking go on, you can do it. You can do it. You can do it. Rooting for him. Rose xwhi is that . Well, i think also because they were very clever in creating a villain. Another villain. An ambiguous character. The Vice President , because of the way he was trying to hush up the drone strikes, the way in which he has sanctioned the drone strikes knowing there was going to be considerable Collateral Damage. This show continues to be a liberal show in that way. Its going to ask the audience hard questions of themselves. What do you really believe . Who do you back . Is it justifiable sanctioning drone strikes knowing that Collateral Damage rose and some sympathy for what the drone strike did and understanding of what it does, which is part of the public debate today. Absolutely. Especially with our current president. Rose right. And secondarily a guy we have rooted for because we have come to know Nicholas Brody. He cant really strap on a suicide vest and go and kill the Vice President because hes upset that his surrogate son, this character, and these other children were killed in their school. But we have some sympathy for his for the motivation of the action. And thats what homeland does time and time again. It has two or three different stories and gives you multiple points of view you spend enough time with each character to understand their points of view. So theres always a way to sympathize. Rose in a sense another way to hate this person because of what they do but were going to want you to understand him mow is he going to be the force of so much evil. Absolutely. And for me as an actor and this is not afraid to take morally ambiguous characters and to just outright evil characters, people seem to perpetrate evil acts but its the challenge is even greater than to understand why you act the way you do. And i suppose that is a postfreudian take on acting, prefreud, of course, shakespeare shakespeare, of course, didnt find it necessary to explain evil. Didnt find it necessary to give a back story. Rose he just did what . He just presented his evil. He wrote in a time when there was good in the world and there was evil in the world. God existed. Rose you dont explain it, you just saw it and responded. And there was evil personified. Boom. Rose theres also love in this between you and carrie. Explain that to me. Is it simply two people who know both wounded . Two people who need some small place where they might want to touch . I was talking about them before as two brokenwinged birds. Which is a i think its what you rose how you see it is what well, there is the recognition between them, absolutely, that they are damaged souls. I think brody comes back to a wife hes known for a very, very long time but their experiences are now so wildly different that there is no place for them to connect anymore. And he meet this is woman who is reckless and dangerous and has you see a darkness in her soul, i think, in her eyes, but you also see something very heady and intoxicating and which i think is true of people with bipolar condition often. Theyre incredibly exciting to be around and having done research into posttraumatic stress disorder, combat veterans who come back from the war zone, i think there is a sense amongst a lot of them no one will fully understand what i have been through and so i give myself Carte Blanche to really behave how i see fit. And no one has a right to judge me because of what i have seen. Rose yeah. And i think they both have an element of that, i think. And rose that kind of i have earned the right because of what happened to me. I want to trash that bus shelter over there, break the windows, throw a brick through a window and have a moment of rage and anger because of my experience of war no one has a right to stop or judge me. I think in some of them theres that sense of entitlement because no one none of you will understand fully what ive been through. And i think he sees that recklessness, that frenzy, if you like, its an exciting thing that you when you recognize that in someone else and i think carrie has something similar and they dlekt in something which is reckless. And her love of this man or her connection to this man, this sense of a moth being drawn to a flame which they both have with one another allows her to free him and to help him escape in the night and, of course, she does that completely off the book. So she contravenes every rule going and she acts for personal reasons which, again, is why i think homeland works so well. People in the end act for personal reasons. The political backdrop against the intelligence backdrop. Rose in everything. In terms of their professional life, in terms of their personal life. Why someone is with someone who they know is bad for them. Because they cant resist for whatever reason. I think thats right. Rose and thats what they are. I think thats right. Rose and you need each other. I think so. And its a neat reversal of the first season. In the first season she was the only one who believed hes guilty. Now, of course, she believes hes innocent rose and the question is does love cloud her sfligs the. Rose you know, carrie i think you would have to say that love both elucidates moments forer in a they it cant for the others and also is a danger to her. I think you would have to say both things. But whats great about it is its a very human honest mistake to make. In the end where brody is concerned shes sort of working from the heart intuitively. Thats not true of her all the time, though because a lot of the time, like that episode q a last year where she breaks brody down and convinces brody to come back to the c. I. A. And i think were supposed to believe that he is successfully turned back for the second half of season two. And i think she knows to use and shes ruthless. Shes ruthless in that moment. Theres no kind of soft soaping brody, dear, you must see this the right way. She grills him and she grills him using all her skills as a c. I. A. Operative. Rose do the two of you talk about these two characters the way you and i are talking abouttor way i talked with claire about . I think the answer to that is that its different with each actor. I dont have a method that i prescribe, show up on set or in rehearsals and demand that people go through a process with me. Its part of the skill of coming together two a group of people where you know youre going to have to do complex and intimate work and you have to develop a short hand where theres a trust and understanding which has developed quickly between you. Claire and i i think worked in quite a similar way. I think we kept quite a lot to ourselves and trusted that our commitment to the work and how engaged we were with the materials. How ambitious we were to be for it to be the best thing we could be meant that when we came together in front of the camera there was total and absolute commitment and focus and there was and it was always thrilling coming together at those points. Also, there was quite a lot that was perhaps adversarial about those two in the beginning of the show where quite a lot was being kept close to ones chest. Because you know there was this recognition initially, there was also that catandmouse game, these two sort of dove it is flying around each other trying to workve other out. Sometimes actors find it helpful therefore just to keep to themselves and so there was a we never got together and went through lines because i think in a certain way we wanted to just keep that familiarity. Rose the potential may add to the dynamic of the performance. Yes. And this is conjecture on my part because ive never spoken directly to claire about it. That was always what i intoed. Rose i think you said brody tse a vigilante rather than a jihadist. Individual lan city probably not quite accurate but i think what i meant by it is that when i was offered this job over the phone a couple of years ago before it all started and they teed up the story for me. Howard gordon spoke to me more than alex did and i just was very concerned that i was going to be asked to play an allamerican boy who found allah and then became a terrorist and i thought these are slightly lazy associations and not something i would want to pander to given that theres a good chance there are people out there in the world who actually believe thats what happens. So i want to be careful that we dont pander to that level of ignorance and so what they tried to do and i think they honored was to try to find a nuance in his faith, in his personal belief. And i believe we achieved that and it means that abu nazir never successfully radicalizes brody. So brody doesnt come back to the United States in the name of allah in order to perpetrate some kind of terrorist act. Rose he comes back in order to find justice for what happened to this boy he loved . He says hes a marine, he loves his country, he just cannot sit by and allow drone strike and the Collateral Damage of drone strikes to go by unremarkable upon and, of course its because of his unstable damaged condition having been tortured both physically and mentally for two years before abu nazir gently starts to work on him and manipulate him and tease him and massage him to a point where brody believes he will never go home again. And he makes his home in the middle east. I think he believes this is it. I will never see my family again. And so theres this kind of feeling that i am incarcerated because im free to be here for the rest of my life. Rose im sure you have read most of john la caray and tinker tailor soldier spy and see some that themes from that. There is now acting out it was smiley versus carla. Now we have, you know, saul versus you know . You see those themes coming out from his influence perhaps . Well, if you ever have a chance to talk to alex, the creator of the show rose i have, but. He is a devoe tae . Oh he is a student of john he carre and John Le Carre, of course, he really new mint it had espionage genre by daring to have a sort of literary feel with his characters. So he dared the espionage lover to come and yeah, kind of read my thriller. Yes it will be tirn the page good, you want to know what happens next but im going to take time to investigate the inner lives of my characters in a more literary novel kind of way. My descriptions will be slightly more literary. It wont just be bang, bang, bang, bang. Rose and my character will be more fully developed. Yeah. And i think homeland certainly boroughs from that and if we come halfway to being as good as John Le Carre i think alex would agree hed be delighted. Rose i assume you had to you, now had to have some understanding, wanted to have some understanding if you didnt already have of islam, number one. Because youre face to face with it. And number two posttraumatic stress disorder. You wanted to know what its like to be overwhelmed by that kind of understandable impact on your brain and your emotions. Yeah. Yeah. Its essential if youre going to play i think its important if youre going to play people with existing conditions, you know, the i went to them to depict it, portray it as faithfully as you can. Otherwise everything you do and the show around you will lose credibility. So, yeah, ive read a lot of journals, books, biographies by people who had suffered Domestic Abuse from parents at home, people who had suffered rape abuse, sexual abuse. What it made them feel afterwards, its all a type of trauma and, of course, i went to the internet, on to youtube and looked at what soldiers were talking about. Rose exactly. In their own words. In their own words and the sense of helplessness they feel when they come home and the abandonment. And i hope we show some of that and get that and equally equally islam, you know . And i i did as Much Research as i could and i found the local mosque in london. Not fin fins bury mosque which is where abu hamzeh comes from but the west London Mosque which is another part of but he the guy there who was really part of their p. R. , so welcoming and open and wanted me to come in and have a sense of it and what it is the and, of course, its a big p. R. Exercise for them. They want you to see a different side of them. Rose exactly. And i was welcomed wherever i went. Rose thank you for coming. Thanks for having me. Rose thank you for joining us. See you next time. This is nightly Business Report with Tyler Mathisen and susie gharib brought to you in part by. Thestreet. Com. Up to the minute Stock Market News and in depth analysis. 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