Mclaughlin. Its a more existential threat to neighboring countries far beyond the threats that afghanistan pose. I think its much more significant. We have to go back and remember, our goals were to create a sovereign nation and government in iraq. We met those objectives. So this decision to leave forces in iraq was an iraqi decision and that Central Government. So, again, i think were at a different time now where were relooking at the issue of what assistance they want. Continue with matt bradley, the middle east correspondent for the wall street journal. Maliki is more than determined to stay in power, fiercely sticking to his position which is he got a plurality in the april 30t april 30th elections and that its his electoral right to remain in the Prime Minister position. So he is not going to be budging. However, were starting to see disent within his own party and kohls and these are the groups who propelled him to power. Continue with guest host of tommy smyth of espn, looking at the world cup with Claudio Reyna and giovanni saverese. I think argentina is going to win. For me, its a story that has to end. I think theyll find a way. You can see the last two games theyve gotten better and i just have a feeling he hasnt, you know, played great the last two games but i feel in south america hes going to lift the trophy and get the weight off him. The crisis in the middle east and the world cup when we continue. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the following theres a saying around here you stand behind what you say. Around here, we dont make excuses, we make commitments. And when you cant live up to them, you own up and make it right. Some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where its needed most. But i know youll still find it, when you know where to look. Rose additional funding provided by and by bloomberg. A provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Jonathan good evening, im Jonathan Karl filling in for charlie rose who is on assignment. We begin this program with the escalating crisis in the middle east as the volley of rocket fire between israel and hamas intensifies, israeli Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu said is a cease fire is not under consideration and hamas is saying pretty much the same. The Palestinian HealthMinistry Said 70 people have been killed, mostly civilians. Rocket fire from the gaza strip is reaching deeper into israel, though no israeli casualties have been reported as of this taping. We now turn to abc news correspondent Alexander Marquardt in gaza. Alex, tell me, what is the sense of where you are now . Is there a feeling we are seeing the beginning of an allout war between the israelis and the palestinians . Feels like were on the edge of it. All day, theres to the chorus of sounds of war, missiles from israel, buzz of drones overhead, artillery from offshore or outgoing rocket fire, there does feel like a place under siege, but, at the same time, life hasnt completely ground to a halt. People are still out in the streets. There is less hustle and bustle. Fewer people are out doing errands. On the other side of the border in israel, i was talking to friends who say in tel aviv, people are searching, on the beach, in cafes, but, at the same time, you have the sirens going off all the time across israel, people looking for cover, rockets incoming being intercepted by the iron dome in the skies above. The secretary general of the u. N. Today said that this region is on an ice edge and it certainly does feel like that. It feels like its about to get worse before it gets better. Jonathan theres a sense of deja vu here. In 2012 you had attacks from gaza, rocket attacks in israel, the israeli response went on about eight days. How is this different . This feels more intense. You have Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli Government and military talking about a prospect of ground incursion and its shaping up to look that way. I was talking to martial analyst a short time ago who thinks there will be a limited incursion. He has three brigades of troops on the border, a fourth by the weekend. In 2012, four brigades carried out an invasion of the gaza strip and made the situation a lot bloodier. Around 1,200 Palestinian People killed of which some 400 were children. Jonathan what would be the israeli objective with the Ground Invasion . Are we looking at potentially the reoccupation of the gaza strip . Thats certainly something theyre trying to avoid. The Israeli Government and military have given the impression that they are extremely reluck about the to come in here. Its something theyre floating as a show of force but something theyre considering seriously because they want to stop this rocket fire. There is no sign of a ceasefire in sight, so the only other option that they may have to stop that rocket fire coming from hamas and the other militant groups might be to come in with ground troops. Jonathan the nightmare scenario for the israelis is that you would have rocket fire actually handing at landing at the airport in tel aviv. Is there any indication that hamas, which seems to have much better, more rocket power now than in 2012, that they have the capability to actually hit that airport . And what would happen if they did . Well, it would cripple israel. Thats the Main International airport. Flights are still going in and out. If you were able to stop flights, the you were able to ground that to a halt, israelis have a very limited options in terms of getting out of israel. Of course, they cant go into neighboring countries syria and lebanon which theyre technically at war with. They could go into jordan and fly from smaller airports into cypress but it would make israel more of an island than it is. The fire power out of gaza is more impressive, destructive and powerful than we saw last time. Weve seen rockets flying out of here going 100 miles north to the city of hifa. Theyve unveiled rockets we havent seen using before like the m320, the r160, if that means anything. These are rockets we believe are designed by the iranians so they have a much longer range. In 2012, we saw rockets being fired at israels two main cities, tel aviv and jerusalem, and now are going a lot farther and with the unveiling of this new arsenal they can hit almost every square inch in israel. Jonathan youre on the ground in gaza city. What is your sense, talking to people, talking to palestinians . Obviously, theres anger towards the israelis. Is there support for what hamas is going . And what is the feeling is the end game here . What are they trying to achieve with these rocket attacks . Oh, absolutely, theres a huge amount of outrage. You look at the death toll. The vast majority of the people who have been killed are civilians, noncombatants, not militants, a lot of them are women and children. So when you drive around the gaza strip and see the houses that have been blown apart that have these massive craters in them, people have lost their livelihoods, theyre not turning around and saying we want hamas to stop firing rockets, they say, we want revenge and we want you to keep firing the rockets. Now, hamas is in a difficult situation. Theyre not nearly as powerful as they once were. Their Financial Base has been eroded. They no longer have strong relationships with countries like syria, iran, egypt, so they have been painted into a corn and one of the things they have been trying to do is establish a relationship with fa tad, the other remaining palestinian Political Party to create a yiewnphyte fide government. Effectively over the course of the past few weeks with israels operation in the west bank, following the kidnapping of those three israeli teens, that has been dismantled. They have severely been weakened and, during that operation, theyve rearrested more than 50 hamas leaders who had been released as part of that deal from a couple of years ago. So the main demands of hamas right now are not only that israel stop its strikes on the gaza strip, but that they release those prisoners and allow the palestinians to create a unified government. Alexander marquardt, thanks so much for joining us. Stay safe and thank you for your reports. Well see you again on abc news. Thank you. Jonathan joining me now are two distinguished guests with deep knowledge of the middle east, vice admiral bob harward is the former Deputy Commander of the United States central command, a former navy seal. He has commanded troops both in afghanistan and iraq. His experience in the region goes way back. Admiral harward graduated high school in tehran and fluent in farsi and also a abc news contributor. John mclaughlin is former Deputy Director at the the c. I. A. And matt bradley, middle east correspondent for the wall street journal. John, youve written two columns over the past few weeks that are frightening. The first you say iraq is potentially going to cease to exist as we knew it, created in 1920, and that the redrawing of the borders could result in a middle east atritic of a fullscale regional war. And in the second column, you talked about the echos from 2014 and 1914, of course, the beginning of world war i. In my career, in my experience, this is probably the most complicated and dangerous time that ive seen in that part of the world for all the reasons i mention in those columns. You know, i think one of the problems that we have now is that everyone in the area is linked to someone else so that, for example, if you look at iraq, the kurds in the north have brethren in iran, syria, turkey. If you look at i. S. I. S. , the group rampaging through the central part of iraq and seeking to establish and consolidate territory bounded roughly by the tigris and Euphrates River as runs through syria, you have there a group linked to sunnis throughout the middle east either via Financial Support or some other way, and in the governing group in iraq, in baghdad, the shia, you have a group linked very closely to iran and to shia throughout the region. So the conflict underway in iraq right now reaches out it spills out beyond its borders very easily and, you know, when i say that there are parallels with 1914, im not saying were on the verge of a world war, but what we, i think, are on the verge of is a situation where conflict is going to be very hard to stop and very hard for national decisionmakers to make choices. Bob and i were talking a few minutes ago, if you look at the Extremist Group thats rampaging in iraq now, they, on the one hand, are opposing assad in syria. We oppose assad in syria. Jonathan its complicated. So right away, in making decisions about opposing either assad or that group, an american decisionmaker has a difficult choice to make, and the only sensible way is to oppose them both, but thats very hard to do at the same time. So, in every case, or look at the government in baghdad. In supporting the government in baghdad, were allowing our were aligning ourselves with iran. In a sense, thats fine. Thats just the world as it shakes out in that region, but it makes it, i think, more difficult for, you know, american decisionmakers to make quick, clear decisions about what to do next. It seems to me as someone looking in from the outside that theyre having trouble deciding. Jonathan there was a sense a few weeks ago we were on the verge of air strikes against i. S. I. S. In iraq. It does feel like paralysis. I think, again, in my experience, its very difficult this may be surprising to many people, but its very difficult for the u. S. Government at that level to deal with more than two, three, four, crises at a time and the problem, if you look around the world now, there are fires burning everywhere. Youve got the middle east, most obviously, but you have Serious Problems with russia. If you look at the far east, i could make the case that what we see going on in the south china and the East China Sea may be the most dangerous place in the world for a whole series of reasons. So sitting in the white house in the state department or defense department, youre looking at a world where you cant work on two or three crises and say ill put these aside for a while, theyre all burning at the same time. Its hard for the u. S. Government to organize forces and deploy forces to deal with all that. Jonathan you were deeply involved in iraq, what is your sense of the threat al quaida poses . Is this a group that, as weve seen some suggest, may be more of a threat than bin ladens al quaida was pre9 11 . Thats exactly right. The al quaida we went after in 2001 when we first went into afghanistan and iraq is a much different al quaida than were seeing today. I think that core element, as the secretary of defense said before he turned over to mr. Hagel, is that we had somewhat defeated them at the strategic level and, yet, the franchise is alive and well, if not growing, and part of that is because these populations in iraq and syria where they dont depend and rely on a Central Government to secure and provide for them have to turn to these other elements that through intimidation or the ability to provide security or resources appeals to them, and thats the broader issue were going to see across the region. Id like to go back to something john talked about earlier, this dilemma the administration faces in this very rapidly changing series of events and what it means to our National Security concerns. You remember, last year, we were seriously considering striking assad in retaliation for his use of chemical and biological weapons and to prevent the further use. Jonathan we thought we were 24 hours out. Thats exactly right. That was our National Security concern. Of course, we did not take that act. Well, now look at the situation. Assad may be the better option than these violent Extremist Groups who pose an existential threat to the nations that border. So if your strategy was previously to contain that problem, now that its spilled over to iraq. Jonathan what is the bigger threat . Is it assad or this i. S. I. S. . I dont think you can clearly discern one as bigger than the other. I would say the more immediate concern, the one you have to start with is i. S. I. S. You have to the take them seria. I. S. I. S. Is a big threat. The major thing is they have succeeded, so far, in something that al quaida never succeeded in, and that is grabbing territory and holding it. We dont know a lot about what theyre doing inside that territory, but there are some indications that theyve learned from the past that you cant simply brutalize the population and impose law without public services. Theyve begun to do that from trash to postal service. Jonathan this is the second largest city in iraq. Whats shaping up is a terrorist state in the heart of the middle east going back to something i wrote regarding 2014 versus 1914, were not anticipate ago world war, but, at the same time, all the major world powers has serious interests here. The United States i dont think, in the end, can tolerate what i. S. I. S. Is turning into, cannot tolerate it, and that raises the question of how you combat it. Do you combat it with bases, drones, capture operations . How do you do it . We can talk about that, but thats a major issue now. How do you combat this terrorist group which is holding terrorist and which which is Holding Territory and says it apriors to attack the United States ultimately . So i would say at this moment the larger threat in the middle east is this possibility of a terrorist state taking shape. It has no allies and friends, so its not exactly poised as, you know, i think David Ignatius said the other day it was a sense born with a suicide pill in its mouth because if it acts as most terrorist groups do ultimately, someone will destroy it or it will selfdestroy, but so far thats not happening. Again, im always sensitive to the word terrorist in clearly defining the problem. These are violent, radical islamists. They have controlled terrorist before. They controlled afghanistan in their partnerships before 9 11. After 9 11, we realized that and they then controlled and influenced an area in fatah. So theyre acting in areas where we cant and no other nation acting unilaterally be it iraq, afghanistan or pakistan is able to influence those areas without partnership and support from us. Jonathan so you were involved in the fight against al quaida and iraq and the effort against cza czar zarkawi. It involved finding allies in the sunni territories. How do you do it now without any u. S. Personnel besides a couple hundred trainers on the ground . Over these last 12 years, we developed capacity, capabilities and tools to do that. We never had before and we can mention the fusion of intelligence, the collection of large amounts of data, drones, other techniques and procedures that really allowed us to get after these, but th the issue ws access. Thousand did you how did you bring that to bear and you needed to do that to control not only land by the airspace in iraq. Before we turned over sovereignty, we had that access. In afghanistan, weve had that access. We do not have that same access now and never had that access in syria. So until you have that partnership honoring the sovereignty of those nations and those nations want your assistance, youre not going to have that access. So access is the critical component. Jonathan lets assume i. S. I. S. Continues to gain strength, as it appears to be. Its now working hard to consolidate and advance its gains in syria, things having stalled a bit for them in iraq. So theyre pushing into syria with the effect of their success in iraq, bringing new recruits to them in syria. Theyre just now takin