Offers to buy time. We talk with Henry Blodget and andrew edgecliffejohnson and mario gabelli. When we look back on the dow jones deal, a lot of people said this is ruperts deal. He wants to go to his grave with wall street journal written on his tombstone. Now we look back that and laugh. This is the tenth of the size of the likely price of a time warner deal. So this is something of enormous ambition. Charlie concluding with ian bremmer, the founder and c. E. O. Of Eurasia Group and talk about American Foreign policy and the obama doctrine. In the world cup when the United States was playing germany, the u. S. Was yelling u. S. A. , u. S. A. , u. S. A. , the germans were screaming n. S. A. , n. S. A. In the german newspapers, this is continual headlines, front page, every single day, it matters a lot. But they had a problem with iraq. They had a problem with libya. They have issues generally speaking with the way the United States projects power around the world and the way the french and brits are more comfortable. Charlie Vladimir Putins russia, Rupert Murdochs offer, and ian bremmers look at American Foreign policy when we continue. And by bloomberg. A provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Charlie we turn to ukraine, the fallout from the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight 17 over east ukraine continues. The International Community is hardening in the belief that the plane was shot down by russianbacked separatists using a russian antiaircraft weapon. Russian military officials continue to deny any involvement. Earlier today the rebels allowed dutch Forensic Experts to search the wreckage after days of destruction. New reports of fighting. President obama spoke earlier today. My preference is finding a diplomatic resolution within ukraine. I believe that can still happen. That is my preference today and it will continue to be my frerches, but if russia continues to violate ukraines sovereignty and back the separatists and they become more and more dangerous and now are risks not simple only to the people inside ukraine but the brord International Community, then russia will only further isolate itself from the International Community and the costs for russias behavior will only continue to increase. Nows the time for president putin and russia to pivot away from the strategy that they have been taking and get serious about trying to resolve hostilities within ukraine in a way that respects ukraines sovereignty and respects the right of the ukrainian people to make their own decisions about their own lives. And time is of the essence. Charlie David Remnick knows russia well, editor of the new yorker magazine, i am pleased to have him back at this table. He returned from moscow several weeks ago. Welcome. Good to be here. Charlie you know lots of people over there. Yeah. Charlie what are they saying about Vladimir Putin . This was before well, its interesting. Foreign correspondents tend to in their daily lives, anyway see people a little bit like them. A lot of liberal intellectuals, people who are good sources and so on. I really made it my business a couple of weeks ago to spend day after day after day speaking with what i think is the new class, the putin 2. 0 class of neoimperialists, russian nationalists, because you are seeing a new wave of putin conservatives and it has to do with social conservatism at home and a kind of aggressive rhetoric abroad, particularly antiamericanism that outstrips anything you may have seen eight, nine, ten years ago. Charlie as reflected in the views of these 2. 0 people . Absolutely. Some of the people began in the 90s as outright liberals and either because they became disgusted or because theyre outright opportunists and smelled a paycheck and rise in power, they changed. The key is information. The vast majority of people in russia get their information, their sense of whats going on in the world, whether its this incident with the malaysian plane or ukraine in general or the United States through staterun television. It is almost orwellian in its reach and in recent years since putin came back is far, far more sophisticated, strict and all encompassing in its propaganda. If you were to turn on Russian Television tonight to get a sense of whats going on in the world, whats going on in Eastern Ukraine, who did what to whom, whos to blame, you would be appalled. You would be shocked. You would be disoriented. Charlie theres no Free Television in terms of independent of the kremlin . Theres very, very little. Theres an internet channel called rain but its being pressured vastly. I was there to see people and their headquarters was being moved to the far fringes of town. Their access to the air waves is getting more and more limited. So even the liberal outputs, the liberal outlets are feeling the pressure and there are far fewer of them. The main way information comes is from channel 1 from russian tv, and everybody watches it. Charlie the essential question about this incident its not an incident its what happened in the tragic destruction of 280plus lives, the central question is in what way is russia complicit . I want to be careful and i dont want to say that we know or dont know. Charlie you made that point in your piece. And i think we should, even now. But when we put the pieces together, when you see the way first of all, who had the weapons to do this, what is the geography, what are the motives, are other planes shot down by the socalled separatists . Yes. Charlie military planes. Are they done with russian collusion, yes. Is there at least minimum communication between moscow and these groups. Yes. Were there phone calls and so forth and what about the behavior at the crime scene . It was disgusting. And i think whats happened overall is putin unleashed you could say the dogs of war, but unleashed something very ugly not only in the military sense but in a societal sense since the opening of this terribly complicated crisis with ukraine and the west. Hes done it through charlie which began with crimea. It began before that, obviously. It centered on the drama having to do with victorria yanukovichd a conflict with the west, and its rooted in a sense of resentment against the west thats developed over a decades time. Its developed with some western errors as well, but really the singular actor here is Vladimir Putin. Charlie but it may be out of control, youre suggesting . I think that putin, if we consider putin a rational actor, and i do. Sometimes you hear about him being delusional. No, i think he is a rational actor. But he has used old tools, and it has unleashed very ugly things in the russian society. People are starting to recognize that i had a meeting with poove povlovski, one of his political advisors for many years and he thinks tv became so ugly at the kremlins initiative that its unleashed forces and sentiments that have really gone even beyond putins grasp. I went to see people who now have regular access to the air waves who would make linden larushes people look like moderates. Charlie not just the separatists, but in russia. Theres a connection. There are people like alexander who runs a newspaper and has for years called tomorrow filled with antisemitic and neoimperialist rhetoric, and he used to be a marginal figure, now hes on National Television all the time. This has aroused peoples resentments, their anger at the west, their fury. I think we have to remember what happened 25 years ago. People woke up in a country where an empire had suddenly become one country. Charlie the collapse of the soviet union. The collapse of the soviet union. Everything people taught was black was white, and vice versa, our friends are enemies and enemies are friends. The amount of disorientation and anger and resentment and feeling that the west is being triumphant, all of these feelings have percolated. You see it in the rhetoric of putin today, and it wants much stronger in its rhetoric now than a decade ago. Charlie and popular at home. It is, partly because hes made it popular. Charlie he controls the media. Its more sophisticated than soviet times, the way this is done. Its less bland and boring than the old soviet propaganda. Theres no department of ideology in the kremlin that there was in the communist party but there is an ideology thats developed. Charlie these people who may know him, how far do they think he will go . First of all, he changed the people around him. There used to be a dynamic in the kremlin. It was never a pleasantly democratic place, but there were people especially on the economic side, for example, who were very interested in the development of a proper market economy, but, yo you know, the interest in russia is so powerful that some of them are out of a job, living in paris or gone. The people who surround putin immediately are the people with kgb backgrounds, people who are like him. Theres not a lot of diversity of opinion in the kremlin. Charlie how far will he go . What does he want . Well whats he want. You know, sitting in the olympics in s so s so sochi, ans with the ukraine had already started to perk late, if you told me he would move in next to crimea, i would be shocked, and the idea that he would then destabilize so much of Eastern Ukraine charlie and get away with it in terms of crime yanchts absolutely. In fact, when were talking about all this on the international stage, crimea is now a given. Charlie exactly. A given. Charlie so when you look at where we are. And the russians, by the way, the russian leadership, at least pretends to laugh off economic sanctions, and sanctions really work, and in the immediate way charlie and focusing on your experience in russia, you were recently there and had conversation with people, is there any real oppositiono to him or does it have high visibility . Two years ago, there were tens of thousands of people on the street angry principally that putin highhandedly decided to come back and win the presidency in what can only be described as a nontransparent process. A lot of angry people. Who were these people . Well, they werent all liberals, but they were all of what you could call the new class, the new middle class, the creative class, the office class, and these people were enjoying prosperity and freedom to travel and freedom from political assault on their private lives like never before in russia and, yet, they were politically angry. Putin resented these demonstrations like you couldnt believe, and as soon as he was elected president , he crushed them and, instead of making common cause with these people anymore, he moved his focus and his politics and i think his ideology to the far more conservative majority of the country. Thats the shift thats taken place in the last two years. Ideologically that putin, through the use of certain rhetoric and touch stones and resentments has changed his emphasis and moved with the far more conservative. Charlie is it possible in terms of people you talked to that this is a turning point against him, one, europe, in terms of the use of sanctions which he might respond to, sanctions with europe, a much stronger than things without europe, because of germany and people who have a powerful trading relationship . In order for that to be true and i hope it is and it could be, it demands that one set of priorities overwhelm another set. It demands putin recognize that, in order to be a member in Good Standing of the International Community, in order for russia to knit itself into the International Economic system at a time when remember, his popularity in the early days was built on the fact that he was presiding over a country with 57an7 or 8 growth rate. Pensions paid, debts were being paid down. Charlie food. Middle class was accumulating. Food forget food, cars people were traveling abroad, a real midding class, thats where the popularity was centered. Now with near zero growth rate, he near zero percent growth rate, he has fanned up nationalist emotion to paper it over. Thats where the 85 popularity is now based on that kind of stuff and that has no great horizon. It might for a while. Thats why i think he is, for all his vaunted intelligence, is a very poor strategist and tactics. I think this adventure in ukraine has been one improvisation after another. The plans for such a move, as they were in georgia, long been there as a contingency, but to do one thing after another, forget about this final catastrophe, was a series of tactics, because the strategy, where does it bring them . Charlie would vit made a difference in would it have made a difference if europe would have acted strongly and come forward with a deal that would have let ukraine have a connection to europe as well as russia theres no question ukraine itself is a deeply divided society. We have to remember what terrible shape ukraine is in economically. Poland after the end of communist has tripled the size of its economy, ukraine has not grown one bit, which is quite an achievement with the communist collapses. The Political Class of ukraine has raped that country, has bled it dry. Everyone. Theres not a great hero to be found on the ukrainian economic and Political Landscape anymore than in the kremlin. Charlie they were all corrupt . Which makes the west or made the west very wary of sending more aid because you might as well mail it straight to a swiss bank account. Charlie right. And theyre really unlike, say, poland in the 80s. Theres no great mass political accounting and movement in ukraine. There hadnt been for many years. The orange revolution was a failure, in the end was a failure. We can only hope for the best now. The man whos the president , poroshenko, i have to think his fortune was not accumulated in the most gorgeous way possible either. Charlie but he has a certain boldness as president. He has. Charlie theres also this question with respect to putin, do they have any sense of where he is responding to his own judgment about whether president obama will respond . It depends on what responding means. In other words, when i watch Lindsey Graham and john mccain get up on television and demand, this is the result of feckless American Foreign policy, what are they asking for . Tanks into ukraine . Charlie well, they say no. Then what . Charlie i assume they want more support for the ukrainians so they can fight, thats what theyd argue. More arms . Charlie yes, but not american boots on the ground. But thats always theres no calling for boots on the ground. But we have been to this movie before. Charlie no, in places where it turned bad, we put boots on the ground. We are looking to step back for more armed conflict. Charlie clearly, americans are saying, look but theyre looking at afghanistan and also theyre looking at iraq and theyre saying, you know, weve spent and a reluctance to do anything militarily about syria charlie and pressing needs at home as well, so put those things together. Heres the question, though, regardless of all that, if you look at, say, crimea, we just did nothing. Is it possible he has a calculated judgment about what president obama might do and has a calculated judgment he could, a, split the west and withstand the sanctions . And you combine that with the messianic instincts he has to restore russia to greatness. Complicated no doubt in. One of the complications, the europeans are much more reluctant t about even sanction, why because europe is more knit into russia in energy. Charlie in a way, dependent on russian energy. Exactly. I dont see, beyond the kind of somewhat hysterical rhetoric from the obvious corners, and i think its a tiny minority, i dont see anyone of reason anything that greater military either militariestic rhetoric or action has any place in this conflict. The history of crimea is well known. Most russians, even a lot of liberals, by the way a lot of liberal friends i know in russia are very happy about crimea. Charlie sho khrushchev gavet away. Eastern ukraine is another matter. This notion of a russian world in which russia should control every place with russian speakers, that edges into Something Else and its memorable from history in germany and elsewhere. Charlie one more question. Close your piece with this question what is Vladimir Putins next move . Do you have an answer . Well, i can hope what the answer is, and that is a murky retreat. Thats the best that can be hoped for because, see, he cant throw up his arms and say, you know, considering his home audience which he has whipped up into a frenzy, he cant suddenly or he feels he cant suddenly get all nice about this and say, you know what . My bad. You know, i dont know what i was thinking here. Empowering a guy like i gor igor strelvkov, a kind of murky semidiplomatic language, withdraw is the best we can hope for. Charlie in the interest of peace at home. Charlie peace at home. Changing the subject, Everybody Knows magazines are also part of the digital revolution, having to relate to find opportunity in the digital revolution, you just created a new within site. What did you try to accomplish and where does a magazine find itself today . For us, it was very different than the experience of the new york times. Charlie okay, thats a newspaper. For the new york times, and its an enormous thing to try anyway and you had to do it. Charlie right. You took what was in the paper and transferred it to digital. Charlie that was the first thing they did. And then there are bells andc thing they did. And then there are bells andc things. Th first thing we did was, okay, we put that stuff online but, on the other hand, i didnt want to away for free for obvious reasons. The newspapers made that mistake, we dont want to repeat it. For us, it wasnt the same thing. We had to figure out what