Evening with Megan Smith Technology officer at the whitehouse in charge of technology strategic. Its extraordinary legends for the whole group and we have had it pretty technical for everybody and the architecture and technology is really part of the strategies. They wanted the technical people with you. You got the country and google and facebook and twitter should as part of their rotation. Rose javad zarif and megan smith. Rose yesterday at this table, we had a 68 minute conversation with iranians foreign minute far javad zarif. Tonight, part two a conversation about the nuclear deal, about 69 relationship between iran and the United States and about the possibilities of future engagement. Here is that conversation. If in factor there was a nuclear agreement, is it likely to lead to likely to lead to more cooperation in terms of u. S. Iranian relations, u. S. Iranian cooperation, u. S. Iranian joint efforts if it finds itself on the same side. And do you somehow make the argument that if we can get past this nuclear agreement, we can Work Together to defeat our common enemy in this case isil which is al common enemy of conspirators in the region. The saudis for example. Well, i see a possibility for regional cooperation, which exists even now. Im dealing with all these issues. I believe the United States needs to make a very series assessment of how policies that were based on from our perspective is outdated does not work for this time in world history. This is a bit maybe philosophical and ive had six years of being philosophical when i was out of government. But you got to look at it this way. That in a globalized world there are some games that youre trying to impose a cost on somebody you dont consider to be friendly does not work. We have common enemies. We have common challenges. We they had to work for this socalled win win situation where everybody makes a game you cannot gain security at the expense of insecurity or whatever it is. This must have become clear. I believe the United States is moving in that direction, i hope, hasnt made that decision. Its still, i mean if you look at the Nuclear Issue the United States some at least in the United States including those you mentioned and the op eds they have written, they consider their gain to be our loss and our gain to be their loss. I think this is fundamentally flawed. Rose but do you view an american loss as a win for iran. Not necessarily. Rose so youre saying not necessarily. Not necessarily. I do not believe that in a globalized world anybody with any rationality can look at the situation as a zero sum game. It is not zero sum. Unfortunately many people do. Rose does your government see the United States as the great faith thats been used by the ayatollahs. Well our people no, no our people, the government in iran follows the people. Its not the other way around. Our people, if you look at the polls, if you look at the polls the polls are conducted by American Polling companies, establishments. A lot of polls indicate that the iranian people are skeptical of u. S. Intentions even when it comes to nuclear negotiations. I believe, i believe the United States needs to convince the iranians that it does not harbor ill intentions against the iranian people. Its the people. Rose and the iranian 2k3wu679 needs to convince the American People that it does not want Nuclear Weapons which would lead to a proliferation of weapons in the middle east, in your region of the gulf. You need to convince the American People of that because thats what they fear. They fear that if iran gets, its not that theyre going to attack some body, its just that somebody all of a sudden have Nuclear Weapons. They will reach out to the pakistanis and everybody else will want Nuclear Weapons. I think rose is that a real possibility. I think several secretaries of state wrote in the wall street journal i believe some time ago, it is time for everybody to think of a World WithoutNuclear Weapons because thats the ultimate answer. Rose so why not. No, no, hold on. Because youre going to make yourself accountable to the same criteria that you want the rest of the world to be accountable which has used Nuclear Weapons in hiroshima and nagasaki. It does not have the authority to advise others what to do and whatnot to do. We made made our own decision. We believe that Nuclear Weapons did not provide security for anybody. They will not provide security for anybody. We have made a very slid, slid determination that Nuclear Weapons run solid weapons you are run rose they said that to me. Why do you think the world doesnt trust you. Well because lies have been spread of all people by the israelis who are the only ones in our region who possess Nuclear Weapons, the only ones who are not a member of the npt in our region. We want, actually yesterday i was talking to the egyptian foreign minister. We all want to establish a Nuclear Weapons free zone. Why dont you push to accept this because tomorrow, tomorrow if you have everybody in the middle east accepting and everybody is there ready to accepts no Nuclear Weapons. With all the inspections you wanted in the world that we will not have Nuclear Weapons. So its not, i mean netanyahu does not have any authority to become support of nonproliferation voodoo of the world. This guy sits on 200 Nuclear Warheads which are illegal have been developed in con tra vention of every International Treaty on nonproliferation. Lets be series. You you want to be serious rose they do have Nuclear Weapons, they did not find the nonproliferation treaty and everybody is aware of that fact. So why dont you deal with that fact. Thats the fact. I mean rose listen, okay. This is the fact on the ground and i dont see anybody iran did not invade any of its neighbors, israel every two years invades gaza, every other year rose i dont want to go off into that. I know you dont. Rose its not because the reason you think its because you get into the question who provokes who and all of that as you know. It looks to me your friends hamas hamas survived this. Usually people with aggression rose let me ask questions people want to know. Why dont you provide this is a simple thing to do, the history that john kerry and others have asked you to provide owe that they would have a basis to look at. They know more about what you had done and have a basis to make an evaluation about the future. You refused to do that. No, we didnt. Rose you did not allow a history of your no, no. Come on, hold o lets take one step at a time. Somebody makes an allegation against you. Its up to them to prove it, not for you to disprove it. Allegations have been made against iran one after the other. Iran, hold on. Iran has been inspected in the last ten years more than any other country in the world say for japan. The only country that has been inspected more than iran based on im referring not to the report recently based on the 2013iaaea. Ieae spent more money on iran than any other country in japan. Rose do you recognize iaea says theres uninnocenced questions at least 10 basic unanswered questions. 12. Rose 12, okay. These are the questions. Rose unanswered questions. Yes, my friend. Rose if you want to prove your point did you answer that question. Did you ask the iaea got the questions. They got the questions based on the allegations that israel provided to them. Now, if people who are themselves continue to accuse others who have a track record of complying with their obligations under the npt with allegations. Now what we can do and we have been trying with the iaea is to develop a twraim work for us to answer those questions. But it has to be clear that you that proving the negative is impossible. That. Any lawyer will tell you that it is impossible to prove a negative. Somebody who makes an allocation, who presents an allegation must provide the evidence for that. The problem is, the problem is the iaea has been searching iran for the last ten years has spent more time in iran rose nothing to hide, let them come in. Whatever they want to because you got you say we have nothing to hide. Yes we want to use the peaceful purposes, we have nothing to hide. So i say to you inspection is a big deal for trust and verification. Whatever you want to define it as its a big deal for the americans. Its a deal. Rose and for the iaea. Sure. Its a deal. Iran will accept the highest International Level of inspections. That is the ambition of protocol. Rose go anywhere, any time. Come on go anywhere, any time youre talking about countries. There are international standards. Go anywhere any time where . Which country is prepared to give you go anywhere any time. All countries have industrial secrets, have 34eu8 tree secrets. But if there are basis and there is an international criteria. People come up with these hysteric are arguments. We have international set of measures. Interly, they incremented in a lot of countries and iran has said that if there is an agreement, that if you choose the path of cooperation instead of the path of confrontation because you cannot choose the path of confrontation and expect all sides to cooperate. I mean its either or. You are trying to go in the direction of rose and verification. Okay fine. Verification and trust. That requires you to accept certain norms. Certain International Practices that are now agreed upon and available to all countries. Iran is presented to accept the highest level of International Inspection that is available. Rose just to show you that in the interest of what i do know about the deal and what ive understood from different people, secretary kerry has said in conversations when the question was raised of him like im raising the questions of you by Margaret Brennan the state Department Correspondent at cbs asked him about inspections and why should we believe inspections this time when they were thwarted in the past. John kerry said as i heard it. These are the most extensive inspections weve ever seen. Those that are proposed as part of this agreemen. Is that true or not. Was the secretary speaking the truth then . Well, the secretary certainly speaks his truth to the American People. And he can he can say and present the inspections that are taking, going to take place under what is known internationally as the Additional Protocol. Rose do you believe these are the most extensive Intrusive Inspections that youve ever been subjected to. Those that are in this agreement. Iran is accepting to implement the Additional Protocol. And the Additional Protocol is the highest standard inspection that is available in the world. So hes not lying. If iran implements the Additional Protocol iran will be implementing the highest standard of inspection. But that is not exclusive to iran. That is the standards of inspection that some other countries, not all other countries are implementing. But let me tell you something. Iran was prepared to implement that in 2003. Actually rose why didnt everything actually they implemented the Additional Protocol from to 03 to 2005. The United States government at that time unfortunately chose the path of confrontation and torpedoed the possibilities for cooperation. And the same people, the same people who killed the opportunity for cooperation then are advising now to kill this opportunity. Now i believe it will be prudent for the United States to look back at the history and see how much it gained from confront from choosing the path of confrontation with rack for the past eight, nine years. Rose if in fact for some reason iran does not allow the inspections prescribed thats a violation of the agreement. And 69 united the United States would like to add to and impose the sanctions. We have a mechanism in place that if iran does not comply with its part of the deal or if the United States and other countries do not comply with their part of the deal, then the other side after going through a procedure will be free to go back. This is obvious. Its a balanced approach. Its a reciprocal approach. We call it actually reciprocal in the agreement. Because it has to be reciprocal. An agreement that is based on sovereign country dealing with each other must be reciprocal must be based on mutual respect. Were not going to start this. We havent. I mean secretary kerry and i weve not waste all this time. Rose 18 months. 18 months nine hours in one sitting over from 9 00 in the evening until the next morning the following morning simply to prepare a piece of paper that both of us are going to go home and shred. Rose you both did come home and suggest different. Well, this was this was an unfortunate situation pushed by domestic politics here. Rose and there. I doubt it because i didnt introduce fact. I didnt produce it last time or this time. What i will rely monday and is best to rely upon is the agreement. I think people here and people in iran should wait a couple months, well come up with an agreement, that agreement thereby public. Nothing will be secret. In this day and able, you cannot be secret in this world. You know that. Whatever we agree will be out in the hope in a couple of days time. Or a couple hours time if you are more accurate. So let us wait another couple months, we will come up with an agreement with clearly laid out terms. Rose by june 30th. By june 30th at home. And with internet and we did not waste all this time, 18 months of negotiations to prepare an agreement that either side wants to, immediately upon reaching that. Rose whats the odds of that happening. Reaching an agreement . Rose yes. If there is the Mutual Political will to abandon the path of confrontation and go for willful cooperation rose abandon confrontation and the path of secrecy, abandon the matt pat of secrecy and covert path of secrecy and covertness. They worry most of all not only centrifuges you have what they really worry about is that you can secretly like you did last time and were forced to disclose. No. Rose thats what theyre worried about. Theyre worried about a covert facility they cant know about and dont have access to. Charlie, lets look at the realities on the ground. What happened to iran . Was a pattern of denial. Iran owns, owns a part of a French Consortium producing, 10 . We havent been able to get a gram of uranium from them. You know that the United States in the 1950s and 60s in the atoms for peace project, built a nuclear. Then after the revolution we started to need fuel for that reactor. The United States refused to give us fuel for the reactor that it had built. Its a peaceful reactor. It cannot produce weapons but the United States refused to give us fuel. We went and bought it in 1990 from argentina. Then in early 2000, we needed more fuel. That fuel ran out. We asked for fuel from the iaea, they said we dont give it to you. We said we will build it ourselves. And then they started to panic. Why is it our building is on fuel. Why . Because you didnt give it to us. You see iranian people, we have the scientific base. We have the scientific capability. We have the technological capability. People cannot wish that Technology Capability away. Its underground. What we are prepared to do is to ensure that that scientific and technological capability is used exclusively for peaceful purposes. Thats what theyre interested in. With you you cannot again start history at the point that you wanted to start. You got to start history when the United States government went across the world trying to deny iran of the fume to our reactor. Rose youve been listening to the secretary of state and youve been hes been listening to you. Thats a really good thing youve been talking. Have you changed your mind about the states . You guys have been sitting there. You both want this to work for individual reasons. I mean for reasons reflecting of your countrys wishes. We both want this because we know that the other approach is koirntd productive. That the other approach does not produce results. I mean confrontation harms us, it harms u. S. Interest. And it doesnt advance any objective. That is a realization that has been key to everybody sitting and trying to resolve this. So we have tested something that was not conducive to an out come that either side believed to be in its interest. Now were testing another option. An option that we always prefer. We prefer that option in early 2000. Rose you mentioned that. When we made suggestions. I want you to understand and i want the American Public to understand that its not the sanctions that has brought iranian here. We were always at the negotiating table. We were always prepared to reach a negotiated solution. It was unfortunately segments of the United States administration who believed and unfortunately continue to believe that they can impose their views on the rest of the world. They ca