Jony ive, the chief design officer. We will do things that some its hard to articulate why you did them beyond it feels like the right thing to do. And from our experience, i think the people to see value beyond their ability to articulate why, you know. If you ask somebody ways, why they like some things, i truly have found that it has a relationship to the amount of care that was extended in its creation. And its a difficult one to talk about at the risk of sounding slightly grand in aspiration. But i think that we found that when we care, when we design the inside of this product, that not many people will see, when we extend that sort of care, we saw that were making a contribution that the culture and to humanity. We conclude this with mimi sheraton, her book is called 1,000 foods to eat before you die. The places i went, the friends i made, all of the things i did were more or less fitted that the schedule for researching foods like this, whether for the New York Times or the konde nasdaq traveler or the new yorker. Its my 16th book, so there are a lot of others out there. Rose remembering nancy reagan with nancy gibbs and mike duffy, jony ive at apple, and mimi sheraton on food when we continue. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the following captioning sponsored by Rose Communications rose funding for charlie from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Former firs lady nangsee reagan died at her home in los angeles yesterday. She was 94. The cass waws con guess tiff heart failure. President obama said on sunday that she had redefined the role of first lady. She was widely considered to be her husbands closest counselor, offering quengs advice on many major decisions and personnel. Her protective instinct, and independent think prg controver. Critics called her queen nancy. She began her path to public life in hollywood where she starred in several films and met her future husband Ronald Reagan. The couple was insparrable through many triumphant years in the political spotlight. Their marriage saw tragedy as well as Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconel put it yesterday, in many ways the reagan love story was classic hollywood but it was unmistakably human too. Nancy and ron rose to the pinnacle of political power, weathered cancer and personal heartbreak and braved the depths of alzheimers cold embrace, always together. Joining me now to discuss Nancy Reagans life and legacy from washington, michael duffy. He is Deputy Managing Editor of Time Magazine here in new york, nancy gibbs, Time Magazines editor. Together they are the authors of the president s club, inside the worlds most exclusive fra tirnt. Im pleased to have them back on this program. Welcome. Talk about nancy reagan as a first lady. Well, you know, coming when she did, after bete ford who had been such a transparent, authentic figure and then Roselynn Carter who was very earnest and high protein, here comes nancy reagan out of hollywood in her gowns and her entourage of very glamorous friends. And that was not something that washington had seen in many years. And i think they didnt know what to make of her. And she was something of a mystery in a very different way than her husband the president was a mystery. And i think one of the things that was most point yantd about her, point yant about her especially initially where he was so again yal and the testify long president , no criticism would stick to him t almost all fell to her. And she became. Rose the protecter. She was his protecter, but in the course of that, all of the slings and arrows came to her. And so mike defer once said if he was the testify long president , she was the fly paper first lady. And at the end of the first year in office she was one of the most unpopular first ladies in modern history. And by the end of her eight years in the white house, she had successfully reinvented herself and her image but it was what she was willing to sacrifice in terms of her own standing in order to serve as the champion and protecher and guardian of her husband was remarkable. Rose but most of all, i mean it was a great love story. A great love story and she they were best friends. It was their company that each wanted the most. Kol inpowell told a story this morning that when she would travel to new york to see her friends, if she was away for more than a day or two, he would get a little bit off kill ter. You see it in the letters he wrote where he would say, you know, when you walk out of the room i feel lost. He was just extraordinary. The way that they were able to be this little unit within the most visible, imaginable household on the planet. Rose the biggest fish bowl in the world. I can hear you reflect on the idea he missed her. I think she made him feel safe. Her power in the white house before and after extended from two simple things she understood about reagan. The man no one really understood, that others didnt get. She knew that he was a man, and she said this all the time, utterly without giel, and is always surprised when others werent the same way. And she also knew that no one would ever get close to him. She tawkd eloquently both after the presidency and after his death that there was just this barrier around him. And even she couldnt really breach that barrier. Rose even she couldnt. Even she couldnt. But she, lou canon writes about this eloquently. But she understood what the bar quer was built of. It was built of a father who was abusive and a childhood that was nom addic and the rejection that he sered after the de divorce to jane w yman in the late 40see, early 50s and these wounded him deeply and he trusted very few people. He was able probably because of her own very rocky childhood which she had been passed around from parent to parent and to grandparent, and because she had been adopted by a father who was quite stern, in chicago physician, she understood, i think, what reagan had been through. And was able to, i think, at least get close enough to get near the wall. And that made her more intimate with him than really anyone else in his life. Rose she had influence clearly on personnel decisions, whether this was the president s chief of staff. She had allies. You mentioned mike was clearly her closest ally. She from the earliest days of his career in california, she joined forces with people like stu spencer, for example, the legendary story, california consultant. Who whenever there was a crisis either in the Governors Office or the governors campaigns, right on through to iran couldnt ra in the late 80s would call in stu and say come and fix it, be pie agent. She reached out to people like bob strauss, the democratic fixer who, you know, to do her workment and she was the one who pushed people in and pushed don reagan out, always having his interest at steak. And as nancy pointed out, she took a lot of arrows for that. But he always was the beneficiary. Well, she said that her husband being very conflict averse especially when it came to the staff around him, would sort of be in denial. If something wasnt working, if someone was underperforming, if he just looked the other way, it would all take care of itself and they said that isnt really an effective way to run things. Rose did she finally convince him he had to speak out and acknowledge error on iran couldnt ra . Yes. She was the one who believed that he needed to apologize and she was a very significant force in bringing him around to that. In fact, when he was resistant and he resisted it for weeks, and was pushing back against all kind of republican, you know, wisemen and veterans, she then brought in more people to pub him. She knew that he was going to need a really firm nuj. And when done regan is pushed out and reagan is finally admitting that he had misremembered things in front of various commissions, and boards of inquirery, it really was nancy who had moved the pieces into place that got him to make the admission that would allow his presidency to go forward. And they were able to conclude the final two years and get a lot of things done. But had that not happen and she not been there to push, it probably wouldnt have taken place. And that is very significant. We are in this Amazing Campaign year where people talk about a republican brokered convention, the last time we came close to Something Like that was when reagan had challenged gerald ford in 1976. And nancy was very concerned going into that summer that reagan had stayed in too long and he was damaging his reputation. She reached out to james baker who ran that campaign and said get him out. Lets make our escape. Lets get out of here before he does more damage. So she was always acting with his longterm goals in mind. You know, what interested me, because they of course were outsiders to washington. So they arrived in washington in 1981. She read nixons memoirs and kissingers memoirs. She went to school on how the city works and what it would take to succeed there. How the machine ree worked. And i think was much more sense advertised to that much more int matdly. And found a friend in katherine graham, didnt she . She did. Who among other things explained to her why she was the target of so much criticism. She said a lot of the people writing these stories are young women who just cant relate to you because you represented everything that they are rebelling against. Rose she also later, mike, became certainly after he husbands announced he had alzheimer, she became an advo kaitd of stem cells. Among other things. One of the things people missed among the queen nancier regard era was just how interested she could be in things. And how moderate she was compared to not only reagan, to some of the people around him. And was quietly pushing to soften his image even before then. So just as an example that takes you to that. Nancy played a huge role in the early 19 80s of pushing Ronald Reagan to do some negotiations with gorbachev on arms control. Which when it wasnt exactly in vogue. In the republican party. She always had to have this moderating force inside the white house. So by the time she gets out. She begins, and he actually ver quickly disappears from public view because of alzheimer. She begins to talk in interviews, on all kinds of outlets about alzheimer, about stem cell. And she let it be known through seconds, lieutenants and other means that she was fine with samesex marriage. So these are places where nancy reagan. Rose she had a lot of gay friends well. She grew up in hollywood. She was not a strange tore cultures that maybe perhaps some republicans had not experienced. And she was able to make these views known, consistently over a long period of time. So that is just another way in which she turns out to be more influential than people perhaps realize. Rose what was her relationship with her clirn . It was very strained. Although i think in the end there was some reconciliation and her daughter patty davis writes very poignantly about as president reagan de senlded into alzheimer and which was such a living hell for those who loved him. Rose she said the most amazing and poignant thing on that issue. She said we will so many memories. That we couldnt share, couldnt share them any more. And so you know, patty talks very movingly about in a way how it brought them closer together. And it was a kind of grieving before his death as he was lost to them. You go you know, i think there was a therry which the children have sometimes sulged, even, that they were so close, that ron and nancy were so close, that did t didnt really leave emotional space for anyone else. They loved each other more than they loved anything else. Uhhuh. In terms of russia as i remember t and correct me if im wrong, she became a little bit concerned about president bush after he came to the white house because she thought that they might be doing some damage to the relationship that he, president reagan, had with gorbachev. Well thats true. Its an interesting wrinkle in republican history. After eight years of reagan which he had moved from a hard line position against the evil empire to one which involved multiple agreement, not just in arms control but in other areas, they ended that eight years with reagan and gsh chef at the gorbachev at the statute of liberty and it was really the triumph and what we call glassnost and president bush came into office in early 1989. And though he would eventually get to his incredible partnership with gorbachev, he spent the first seven or eight months keeping him at arms length. In fact, worse than that, basically saying he wasnt even sure he wanted to do business with them. Even as they were preparing to do all kinds of business with the russians. So by then the soviet union had collapsed or was about to collapse and there was a lot of opportunity. But in that first eight or mine month period many people from the reagan period said youre going backyards backwards, george, though he would right that course, it certainly looked that way. And she was i think disturbed about it and she wasnt alone. But eventually found his way toward that path. Rose there is some great quote from billy wilder, maybe, but one of the hollywood people who knew both of them. And when it was first announced that Ronald Reagan was running for president. He said no no no no, Jimmy Steward for president , Ronald Reagan for best friend. But he later said an interesting thing which was that if, that nancy in fact, had helped him become president. And if they had married earlier, he would never become president because she would have helped him win all kinds of Academy Awards and he would never have gotten into politics. She says something very interesting. In 19d 68 when Reagan Reagan is first being, you know, this shiny new governor of california and being talked about as a republican candidate, and about whether she would want him to run. And remarkablynd stood even then about what that job does to you. And it was almost like she had some foresight that were that ever going to happen, were he ever to end up in the oval office, that her job would be to help him manage his job. And it is a kind of Public Service that is easy to forget, of what if takes to take care of the person who is taking care of everyone. And in her case, part of that protectiveness came down to, you know, managing his day and making sure he got enough sleep and how he was eating and resting. Because she understood how he worked. And she understood the weight of that office on him and what he could and could not bear. And when it is someone that you love the way she loved him, to see him in that role and what it does to him, and this is even without the assassination attempt and the complete terror that that introduced intoed experience of living day to day in the white house. Rose the fear of her terror of her losing her husband first and the terror of having to get him well. She uniquely knew in the moment just how close to death he came after the shooting. Rose mike. I was going to say the other thing we forget about the reagans is we sometimes think of them arriving triumphantly in washington as if they had been just touched as power. They did run as a couple in 1968. It was an embarrassing race. They decided to contest Richard Nixon for the nomination. They didnt come close and it was a messy, awkward jang ely affair. They did it again in 1976, taking on gerald ford. And they nearly won that time. And no one was more surprised or hurt at the end of that race than nancy. There was a great scene in kansas city at that convention where he is finally admitting that its over, and hes talking to his closest supporters and she is in teers. She has just fallen apart because she thought they were so close. And they did come close. By the time they run in 1980, it is the third try. And we forget that about the reagans because they were so good at telling us that those other two things are fleuks or someone elses idea or not really serious, though they were very serious. And in one case, nearly successful. It is also important to remember that she, you know, there was a lot of stuff written after don regan is pushed out. He publishes his memoir in 1987 or 88ee, and discloses the news that much of the white house schedule in the late 80s had been determined by joan quigly, her astrologer, that was a shocking revelation at the time. It is still kind of shocking. Its probably only mattered for the course of a year, and there were lots of times when reagan appeared on days that joan said he shouldnt. But it was a measure, i think, of what nancy was talking about, about how fearful she had become about his public safety, if nothing else. I think she really did worry much more than and i suspect all first ladies do. About her husbands safety. Obviously when she left the white house she had to go home with her husband who is living with alzheimer, and that was a primary concern. But how else did she live her life in los angeles when she went back. She lived very quietly. There were lunches with close friends. But any notion that she would have this glamorous post white house life was completely ruled out by his illness. And she really did not want to be away from him for any length of time at all. So you know t was a kind of house arrest, in a sense. Of taking care of him for another ten years. And you know, this was the long goodbye. It was in a sense his very poignant letter to the country and the modeling that they did as a couple about her steadily fastness was quite powerful and moving. And she of course became very much a champion for all kinds of research into finding a cure. But there was also work to be done. And because he disappeared from the scene so quickly, faster than almost any president who wasnt, you know, killed in office, by 1994 that is a year, yeah, hes disappeared. The work that needed to be done was to make sure that the reputation of the reagan legacy lived on. And she oversaw and okayeded commissioning of all kinds of books. And the library. Library was the central focus. That the created this narrative that reagan had been much more intellectually curious. Which is true. Much more involved in the writing of his speeches, the writing of his radio broadcast. There came with the help of some people at key institutions around the country, you know, a kind of revived image of reagan as a thinker and a philosopher. That was not an accident. And she was very much now i want to say working the controls but she wasnt far away from them, charlie. And that was very successful. She successful. I think there are now more books written about reagan than any other president except lincoln. Wor