In four and a half months, thats an unprecedented pace of attacks against the west. Al quaida never achieved that. So in terms of them wanting to attack us and us wanting to stop those attacks, not even close as to whos winning. Rose do you think therefore i. S. I. S. Is the greatest National Security threat to the United States . Right now yes. Rose it is . Absolutely. No doubt in my mind. Rose we conclude this evening with richard haass, nicholas burns, rukmini callimachi, and peter spiegel. This is the new normal. This has been with us for some time, its going to be with us for some time, and the real question is how do we goative comprehensively in ways we dont tie eachout nor knots and close down the essential openness of our society. Rose trying to understand brussels when we continue. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the following captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose we question thin this evening with the terrorist attacks in brussels, at least 34 killed and many more injured. Two explosions at Brussels International airport, a third struck a subway train near the headquarters to have the european commission. Eyes took credit for the bombings, four days after capture of paris attack suspect Salah Abdeslam in brussels. Messages of support have poured in from leaders around the world including president obama who spoke from havana. This is yet another reminder that the world must unite. We must be together, regardless of nationality or race or faith in fighting against the scourge of terrorism. We can and we will defeat those who threaten the safety and security of people all around the world. Rose new york and other cities have stepped up security in response to the attacks. Joining me now is john miller, Deputy Commissioner of intelligence and counterterrorism of the new york Police Department. He spoke alongside new york city mayor bill deblasio and Police Commissioner bill bratton at a press conference earlier today. What you saw this morning and throughout the day if you were a terrorist was a massive show of force on the part of the nypd. What you saw if you were a citizen or commuter today was a large sign of reassurance and protection. Starting early this morning, we used every tool in the counterterrorism toolbox. I am pleased to have john miller at this table to begin es it mean and where is itt what going. Welcome. Good to be here, charlie. Rose tell me what you know. Tell me what you believe about this attack. I think what were looking at here is a brussels based network which was part and parcel overplanning the paris attacks we saw in january, which had been planning attacks prior to that around the time of the Charlie Hebdo attacks and the jewish supermarket hostage situation. So i think were seeing a network node of i. S. I. S. Thats been operating there for some time. I think what we saw earlier this week was very good intelligence work on the part of the belgium authorities that took them to a safe house, that led them to the mastermind, a shootout, capture, a Police Officer wounded, a couple of others got away, but they were certainly on the right track. Then i think what you saw was the result of parts of that network were able to regroup and strike. Rose do you think they struck because of the capture, because they may have worried what he may have told police about what might be coming up . Its entirely possible. That could be they rushed together an attack and thats what we saw today, or it could be simply as what we refer to as a punishment operation for the capture of their cellular leader. Rose do we know that he was the cellular leader and that they may have been connected to him or were likely connected to him . I think the operating theory right now is that the people that struck today were part of the network that he was running in external operations for i. S. I. S. That is a matter that is under investigation. That investigation is being led by the belgium authorities. We have american citizens among the casualties there which makes that a terrorist crime here in the United States under our extra territorial laws. So the f. B. I. And the nypd joint terrorist task force will be involved in that investigation. Rose from many conversations, you have tight me that at the first glance of these things, all the information is not out and you have to take a couple of days to really understand and appreciate whats going on. What questions are you asking this evening . I would be asking what was the amount and type of explosives, looking at the damage rose we know that, though, dont we . That those bombs seem to be quite large. There is a lot of forensics that go into that. There is a lot of reporting that changes over time. So i would be cautious on that until we heard rose so we want to know where the explosives are. But i also want to know what was the preoperational surveillance and the target selection, what do they do to choose those targets. What we do here, charlie, from the nypd perspective, is we want to look at every attack overseas, reverse engineer it, and then try to build that into our plans here. What was the intent of the bad guys . How did they execute on that attempt . What can we learn from what they did before or during that we can put into our planning . Rose how good are they . You dont have to be that good to kill people. All kind of idiots have figured out how to do that, and many of them have been terrorists. It doesnt require a lot of talent to walk into a crowded nightclub with a 30round magazine in a machine gun and spray it into a crowd. Rose theyre willing to die. Thats nots about how good they are. Thats about how committed they are. I think we saw again today they are committed in this process to die and that is not a not a new feature in terrorism, just a frightening one. Rose we saw three people two. Of them died. One is under a massive manhunt. Can you tell us more about that and how you go about finding someone like that . When you look at that photograph, it can appear they are together because they seem to be walking together in a line, but i dont have any more information about that last individual. Was he just someone keeping pace with them because he was going the same way or is he part of that . We have to figure out who he is, if youre the belgium authorities find out where he is and who he is and talk to him about that because you really have to determine was he with them or passing through . Rose so new York City Police department and i assume the lapd where you formerly were and other cities have to be fearful of a kind of attack in terms of transit, in terms of where there is a large gathering of people or in places with outdoor cafes are a o lot of people are easily accessible, yes . So, yes, what we see, as we saw once again today, is a constant returning to mass transit targets. But what we saw in paris was a number of random targets. So, you know, sun sue wrote a long time ago who he protects everything protects nothing. You spread yourself too thin. We look at the threat stream every day, the individual events overnight around the globe and we put together a plan and say these are the 40 or 50 places where were going to place our resources. Thats where we think the threat is from one day to the next. The other thing is we move that around based on the threat stream but also based on unpredictability. Charlie, if your opinion a terrorist and we learned this from the planner of the mumbai attacks in india where they hit multiple locations and set fire and killed people if you are a planner and see heavy security one day, gone the next, back two days later, its very hard what it is youre planning to meet, and the constant movement, the unpredictable nature, but also the response piece, which is the forces are out there every day, no matter where theyre posted. When you blow that whistle and tell them to respond, they will be there in force, in mas and very quickly. Rose if police were able to find abdeslam, is it because of somebody turning him in . Is it because of communication, giving himself away . What is generally the way they meet their end . It can be you develop a source, it can be you conduct surveillance physical with eyes on the scene or technical means through cameras. It can be a lot of things that brings you to the right door at the right time which happened through the good hard work of the belgium authorities a few days ago. But i also think we cant have these conversations where out of one side of the mouth ive heard critic on television saying today, well, this is the result of an intelligence failure and all the week leading up to this i heard other critics saying apple shouldnt open the phone for a court order even though its connected to the San Bernardino attacks. The phones with end to end encryption where they cant open the communications with a court order, thats the kind of thing which would have been yesterdays intelligence failure is todays intelligence lockout. Rose but they seem to know and be very much aware of encryption data and how to use encryption. Thats right. A good part of this is a trade craft. The trade craft if youre a terrorist, it requires discipline, planning and being thoughtful, but it also requires having the facilities to do that and, commercially, we as a Global Society are supplying them with more and more impenetrable facilities. So its very hard to have discussions about whats an intelligence failure and whats not when, slowly, the aperture that the authorities are allowed to look for is closing to the point it will be black. Rose can you speak to the issue today of the f. B. I. Saying we may have found a way to open up the San Bernardino iphone . Yes. I think what the department of justice, the position theyre taking is they have tried to force that issue through the courts and apple has fought that issue and even indicated that if the court rules against them, their engineers still may not comply. Devices. Rose but you think it might work . I think it could and should work. Ive read through the science and it seems to be viable. Rose lots of questions remain, but one is these people have gotten, we believe these are not somehow somebody who got some message from online and decided to commit a terrorist attack. They were trained in iraq or syria and coming back because they have passports. Is there enough scrutiny or is that an Impossible Task to check everybody at the border coming from syria or turkey . Charlie, one of the great advantages we have is there is this big piece of water between us and these cases. One of the vulnerabilities im sorry. One of the great advantages of the European Union is they have a union they can easily cross borders. Its good for their economics, its good for their social, crossover their society, but it comes with vulnerability. You see increasing questions being asked by various nations of when you have a known terrorist who managed to make his way from brussels into paris to do the attacks that occurred earlier this year, who is someone who had already been in paris before, then back to brussels, then back to syria, then back to belgium, that that comes with a certain cost, and this is an old tug of war in the argument about terrorism, which is what the terrorists goal is, part of the goal is to cause the government to limit peoples freedom, to cause people to question whether the government can protect them, to cause people to be distrustful of their government. Rose to cause people to change their way of living. Yes. Rose and quality of their life. So i think the europeans face a great challenge here. We, on the other hand, have the ability to scrutinize people before they come here, when they arrive here, we have the ability to turn them around. We have a vast Intelligence Network and great partnerships with our European Partners where they provide that information about people. Rose so what is it you want your message to be to the citizens of new york tonights . My message to the citizens of new york tonight is that we have one of the most complex layered and capable counterterrorism machines of any municipal Police Department in the world. I would put us on the level with Scotland Yard and the london police, but that we have built on it, we have enhanced it, we are a learning organization. Every time something happens, we study that, and we add something to the mix. We have had numerous drills and physical places followed by tabletop exercise, testing, command and control. This isnt something we start thinking about at 4 00 in the morning when the phone rang today. This is something we think about every minute of every day, but our greatest asset is the public. We say, if you see something, say something. At times like this, the calls increase. Rose is it fair to say as you have gotten smarter and buttressed your own counterterrorism activities that people who wish to engage in terrorist acts, because of i. S. I. S. And because of syria and because of iraq and the training, theyre Getting Better and theyre getting tough around theyre more and theyre more committed . Well, i think they are very committed. I also think, you know, in the course of june, we had one plot unfolding in new york where people planned to come from boston to behead somebody in new york city, a named individual. We had another plan where a group of individuals here were supposed to build Pressure Cooker bombs that might have been unleashed on the crowds during the fourth of july fireworks. Rose as was the boston marathon. And so far through the joint Terrorism Task force, through our foreign partners, through technology, through intelligence, through human sources, we have managed to prevent four of those plots in the last few months, 20 since 9 11, and the number before 9 11 going back to 1993. We understand were a big target. We understand it is a committed and able adversary, and were just not willing to give any ground if we can help it. Rose thank you for coming. Thanks for having me, charlie. Rose john miller from the, not Police Department, head of counterterrorism and intelligence. Back in a moment. Stay with us. Rose mike morell, deputy and acting director of the cia, cbs news correspondent now. Pleased to have him back at the table. Welcome. Good to be with you, charlie. Rose how do we determine and is it likely there is a connection between these attacks and the recently captured abdeslam . We dont know for sure, we may never know for sure, but what i think, charlie, is that, in brussels, he was with a group of individuals who were planning a series of attacks. This was one of them. I think this particular target was one of them. Whether this was the timing or not, we dont know, but i dont think so. I think what happened was he was captured. The group he was working with was concerned that he would, under interrogation, give them away, give the plot away, but they moved it up, they accelerated it. I think thats what happened. Rose thats a likely scenario. Thats a likely scenario to me. Rose what are the nearterm conversations . I think the very rose what are the nearterm considerations . The threat profile for the next 24, 48 hours out to two weeks. Two things, if were right about the acceleration of a particular plot, what else might they accelerate in the days and weeks ahead, right . Thats one thing you have to worry about primarily in europe. So another paris, brusselsstyle attack in europe over the next several weeks. I think you will see a very high state of alert as a result of that. Second, you have to worry about copy cat attacks. Whenever there is a terrorist attack, it leads others to say, hey, maybe i should do something to joint the effort here. Rose do we assume this is directed from i. S. I. S. Headquarters . We dont know. Paris certainly was. We know paris was conceived, planned, directed rose and connected to brussels. And we know paris was connected to brussels in some way. Whether these guys were told do something similar or do this specific thing or whether they were just left to their own devices, not so sure. Im not sure that really matters anymore at the end of the day. Rose why not . Because if youre conducting these largescale attacks on your own, you know, you have been to syria and iraq, you come back, youre conducting attacks on your own now that look athlike paris, doesnt make any difference whether you have been directed to do it or not. Youre doing it in i. S. I. S. s name. Rose my understanding is the bombs could be made from readily accessible material. They always could be. Think about august 2006, the plot to bring down ten to 15 airliners flying from Heathrow Airport to the United States, an al quaida plot, they were going to mix chemicals on the plane, all readily available chemicals. Rose thats the defensive side. What is the offense . Lets talk about the defense, then the offense. The defense, i think, has two pieces to it. Al quaida was always focused on the symbolic target, which tended to be a hard target, which tended to be on the secure side of security, getting through to an airplane, for example. These guys have learned to go after soft targets on the left side of security. Rose where a lot of people are. Where a lot of people are who havent been through security. I think one of the things we should think about is pushing the security perimeter out further. Theyve adjusted and we need to adjust to what theyre doing to security. The other part of the defensive side is collecting intelligence. There is two ways you disrupt a plot like this. You get in it, in iraq and syria, at the leadership level where they do the planning and plotting if that is indeed happening and you can see it there and disrupt it. The other place is at the local level. The way that happens is via picking up communications, or something somebody in a neighborhood saying something is going on in that particular apartment. We need to do better in an intelligence sense in both of those areas. Rose you get the impression of the reports were getting from the paris police and others about what happened in paris that theyre very sophisticated about understanding technology, throwing away cell phones and a whole range of things that they know could lead