Ghosts and your own things that you cannot even talk to about with anybody, are going to be released. Rose tom donilon, Penelope Cruz when we continue. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the following captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. We begin this evening with a look at president obamas foreign policy. The president made History Today in hab oy where he announced in hanoi where he announced the u. S. Would lift a decades long arms embargo on vietnam. This change will ensure that vietnam has access to the defend itself and removes a lingering vestage of the cold war and underscores the commit am of the u. S. To a fully restored relationship with the vietnam including Strong Defense ties with vietnam in this region for the longterm. Rose the move marked the beginning of a weeklong trip to asia. The president s tenth since taking office. The visit comes at a moment of renewed concern over china a regional aspirations and raises questions about the u. S. Pivot to asia as recent developments threaten to divert the president s focus once again. Earlier today the white house confirmed a u. S. Drone strike had killed mullah mansour, the leader of the afghan taliban. Meanwhile investigators are continuing to probe whether egyptair flight 804 was brought down by terrorists. Joining me now from washington, tom donilon. He was National Security advise tore president obama from 2010 to 2013. Im pleased to is him back on the program. Tom, welcome. Thank you, charmie. Nice to be with you. Tell me what this trip is about. And the significance of vietnam. Yeah, thank you, charlie. As you said, this is the president s tenth trip to asia. And its part of what has become known as the rebalanced asia. Which is one of the president s most important geo Strategic Initiatives of his presidency, frankly. It is rooted in the belief that the future of asia and the United States are tightly tied together going into this, the 21s century. It involves an investment acrosstheboard in terms of all elements of national power. Diplomatic, security and military, economics through the ttp which we can talk about. And in terms of his time which of course is the most important asset that the president has day in and day out. Its meant to reinforce the leadership role the United States plays in asia. Its meant to extend the fact that the United States has been, has provided the platform for asia social Economic Development for three quarters of a century. The president came into office, believed we were underinvested and has gone about increasing that investment. The vietnam piece of it is an important part of rebalance. Rebalance involves as you said at the opening, investing in and paying a lot more attention and engaging with our allies but also with emerging nations in asia including vietnam, and it involves a rebalancing of overwhelming emphasis on northeast asia to Southeast Asia as an important part of our interest as well. Vietnam we have had for the last 20 years an increasingly close relationship. This takes it, as the president said, to the new level and really points it towards kind of fully engaged and normtallized relationship. Essentially i was in vietnam in the summer of 1995 on the trip where we reestablished relations with vietnam and raised the flag over the embassy in hanoi. And this had been a long process, president o obama the third president to go there, president clinton was there in 2,000, president bush 43 was there in 2006 and now president obama is there now today. Trying to again fully normalize this relationship. And to take advantage of the fact that vietnam has indicated it is prepared to really engage and deepen its partnership with the United States. Rose so were giving arms to vietnam. What are they giving to us . Its, as i said it is a fully engaged relationship. Let me talk about that. Vietnam is one of the Fastest Growing economies in the world. And an important place for investment by the United States. They have engaged in a much closer security relationship with the United States in a variety of ways. We by the way in 2014 made a decision, the United States did, to provide mar i time assets to the vietnam. And what this is, deepening of security relationship, between the United States and vietnam. Its also as the president said, getting rid of a cold war vestage this doesnt mean the flood gates are going to open up for arms sales to vietnam automatically or right away. Each arm sale will have to be looked at on its own merits and different kinds of conditions can be applied including human rights conditions. But the insight here is that a flat out full ban no longer serves the u. S. Interest. Rose you mentioned human rights. John tipton, the asia policy director of human rights said president obama just gave vietnam a reward that they did not deserve. Well, i disagree with that. I think what this is about, i think its the right balance for the United States to strike, frankly. We have a really obviously key strategic interest in asia and in Southeast Asia in particular. We have a strategic interest in advancing our relationship with veelt nam and acrosstheboard, economicically, diplomatically, security and in terms of human rights, and we have an opportunity here to use the leverage of potential additional security relationships to leverage a further progress on human rights. Now im not here to defend the vietnam humanrights record. I dont think anybody who is informed about it could at this point. But it does provide us with additional leverage Going Forward, but really important, charlie, is this is a strategic step by the United States to take into account all those elements that i mentioned. But do we raise the question of human rights. Tony blankens what said who you know well, has said in a speech he made last month that there has been some progress on human rights. That is in anyway our relationship conditioned on more progress in human rights. Well, a couple of things, there has been some progress. I dont think we should overstate that progress with respect to the regime and vietnam am but there has been progress in terms of the relationship between the United States and vietnam on the security, economic and other areas. Which are important to us. You know, when we talked about the top of the conversation, the rebalanced asia is really critical. The u. S. Engagement in asia, us providing this platform to balance and provide assurance, particularly in the face of a rising china is absolutely critical to continue the stability and economic progress in asia. So and last as i said, with respect to with respect to the arms sale to vietnam, those can be conditioned on human rights, human rights steps by vietnam. So there is some opportunity here for leverage. I wouldnt overstate it to date but i would try to put it in the context of the whole relationship and the strategic interest of the United States. Rose i left out japan in talking about the number of countries we look to to have good relations. Not to contain china but at the same time to have a presence there. What do they expect from us with respect to aggressive behavior by china . Yeah. They expect the United States to be present. These countries expect the United States to keep its alliance obligations, that is to protect these countries. They expect us to continue to provide the Nuclear Umbrella that we have provided. And the region, again for three quarters of a century, do the thought experience. Think about what this region looks like absent the u. S. Engagement here. And that the under Prime Minister abe the japanese u. S. Alliance has gotten i think as deep and as intense as it ever has been. The president also when hes in japan will also visit the memorial at hiroshima. An attack on japan, an attack on south korea, an attack on any other country will be met with what kind response . Well, not any other country, the alliance countries. Okay. I mean the other countries in the alliance. Exactly, yeah. I think at that point the United States and we would stand together to defend gensz any attack. And what does that do . That makes a likelihood of any such attack much, much lower, right . You know, the fact that you would have to face the United States in a situation like that makes the percentage chances of such an attack much, much lower. Keeps stability in the region at a much higher level than it otherwise would be. Because there is one thing clear. No military in asia, including the Chinese Military could ever hope to take on the United States. Rose yet at the same time they have been aggressive actions. They have come too close to our ships. They have in other areas have buzzed our planes. And Many Americans saying how far can they go. In one case russia, in one case china, without us responding other than simply protesting diplomatically. Yeah. It is a fair point. And in asia, russia is a different circumstances where we are engaged in a much more hostile relationship than we are with china where we have overall generally productive relations. But china has been very aggressive in the South China Sea. And there are disputes in the South China Sea that involve a number of country, including vietnam, by the way, philippine and others. And the key i think for this is if several fold. One if the United States is to remain present in asia, weve also indicated that were going to increase the percentage of our overall aviation 1 2al asset by 06 by 20 120. Third its important for the United States to continue to enforce these key principals what are they, a freedom of navigation, settlement of dises putes by a peaceful means, International Laws is the way forward. So the United States as you know, charlie, has in the last year been quite present and is engaged in freedom of navigation exercises. A close end to some of the formations that the chinese claim to be their own. So its important for the United States to be present and reinforce these principles. You know, a couple of years ago the chinese tried to put in place or declare a aviation zone, if you will. Aviation defense zone near japan. The United States said we wont recognize it. We flew through it and thats kind of gone away. Its important for us to again maintain this balance and reassurance in Southeast Asia. The big security problem looming in asia is north korea. Rose exactly. Its hard to know and how to ascertain exactly what the north Korean Leader is doing. Should we expect the chinese to do more . They obviously are doing more than they were in the past. With all these kinds of we lige rant acts by the North Koreans, shouldnt we expect more from the chinese who have the better relationship . Yeah, i dont know about the quality of the relationship. They certainly have more leverage than anybody else. I think the relationship between the chinese leadership and kim jungun, the north Korean Leader, has deteriorated. And the chinese have expressed frustration about that. He has not been invited to beijing, for example, nor has the chinese leadership been to yong yang since he came in in december to 10 or so. I think this. That yes, the chinese have the most leverage. Next the chinese have engaged in a pushing the North Koreans not to engage in some of the more outrage us prove kaitions they had been engaged in. Third, the chinese after this last set of prove kaitions, in fact, did go to the u. N. With us and put in place the strongest sakss that had ever been put on north korea. But heres the problem. The problem is this is now a test for the u. S. China relationship, i think Going Forward. Because we have to enforce these sanctions, there are some loopholes have to be closed. And the North Koreans have to be squeezed here. There has to be some price paid for the path they are on. The path they are on is exceedingly dangerous, charlie it is a combination of continuing to develop Missile Technology, including i think their goal of developing Missile Technology that could reach the United States, of developing more Nuclear Weapons and developing miniaturized Nuclear Weapons that could be put on these missiles that could reach the United States. And that is an intolerable situation for a u. S. President to face. And thats the conversation with the chinese. Rose so what is the red line there . Well, i mean, you know, i hesitate to try to identify a specific red line, you know. But i think it is as we as northed korea, again moves towards having an icm capability where it could launch a Nuclear Weapon against the United States, the United States is going to do a number of things. For example the United States is going to deepen its relationship with japan and south korea. Second, the United States, and this is already under way and ash carter has said this is going to happen, the secretary of defense, we are going to have to build out more intensive Missile Defense systems there. More exercises, more presence, more pressure, including, i think, regimethreatening kinds of sanctions, so what is the chinese reaction to that the chinese reaction to that is neglective. The chinese reaction is the United States building out extensive and more Missile Defense systems, become more deeply involved militarily in the reg orn makes the chinese more strajly uncomfortable. Thats the conversation. Because we say to the chinese leadership, and i have had these conversations with them as you know over the last few years, is this is not about you. This is not aimed at you. This is aimed at the regime in yong yang. And we at the United States and our allies here have to take steps to protect ourselves. What are we going to do about it together, and what are you going to do about it specifically to get these guys off the path they are on because it is unacceptable to the United States. I think it is the biggest Security Threat in asia right now. And the next president will probably face a crisis on it. Rose the president told me in germany when i went over there to interview him that, he said essentially what you just said and said that theyre even looking at the most technological new developments in terms of Nuclear Shields that they can possibly develop. Yeah, so this is again, this is the conversation that the United States a having and needs to have more intensively with china. I also think we need tone gage with china on some, and theyve been very reluctant to do this. You can understand some of their reasons to do this given their alliance and history with northed korea. Needs to talk about what happens there if you have a collapse of this regime. We need to have these deeper conversations with the chinese. And the chinese in the year 2017, the key test of the u. S. China relationship is going to be what are we going to do about north korea. Rose okay. Let me make one last question about china. Sure. Rose as a private citizen, an informed private citizen, not a member of this government as were you at the highest level, how do you assess the mindset of xi jing xi jinping. Yeah, thats a big question, right. And a lot of people are working on that every day. I think a koip el of this things. I think the ski observation that i would have is that number one he has amassed a tremendous amount of power at the center in beijing, right in his office, across a number of issues. Number one. Number two, he faces tremendous pressure, charlie. They are trying to undertake one of the great economic, social transformations ever attempted in history, to move from this export investmentlead economy to a more domesticdriven domestic consumption driven economy. Theyre trying to do it at the same time while theyre trying to reform the communist party in terms of anticorruption of the and hes trying to deal with nationalist trends which he in some ways has put in motion. What do i think the most important thing that he thinks about every day, how to maintain control. How to maintain the monopoly control that the communist party has in china because he thinks thats the way ahead for them in recall its of the development that they and reforms they have to have. And i think he sits there and i think if you and i, lets do anoth