Charlie welcome to the program. We begin this evening with health care. Joining me ed okeefe of the Washington Post and sarah kliff. Theres talk the senate may start its own bill from scratch. Its one victory in an ongoing fight and our focus now turns to the senate and what theyll do with the legislation the house has sent them. Charlie we continue with a conversation about the Media Company vice. We talk to shane smith and josh tyrangiel. One thing i have learned is people dont mind feeling something while theyre learning something, if you can show them a great character or move them thats ok. So a lot of our audience may not be expecting it but if theyre careful watchers theyll remember someone. Charlie and photographer tabitha soaren and its called fantasy life baseball and the american dream. Once i got very successful in television i felt like the work i was doing was getting more and more mainstream. The higher i rose the more watered down it got and the less agency i had over the creative process. So for me art was a solution to that. I feel like i can get to a truth in the work but its less of a who, what, when, where and why and more of an emotional truth. Charlie health care, vice media and tabitha soaren. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Charlie the house of representatives approved the Health Care Act this afternoon and they plan to repeal and replace key parts of the obama care. Its marks a significant victory for President Trump and House Republican leaders their earlier efforts failed to unite in the gop and most republicans have not yet read the legislation which passed without an assessment. Joining us from washington is ed okeefe of the Washington Post and sarah kliff. Tell me what happened. The Trump Administration and president and other key leaders said they had the votes. In fact they did. Was it difficult to pull this off . Absolutely. Theyve been trying for weeks, charlie and they did it today by the skin of their teeth, 217 to 213. That was more more than needed. Theres a few vacancies to the magic number was to get it over 216 and they called the vote shortly thereafter. No democrats voted for this. 20 republicans also voted no. A mix of members from swing districts who will face difficult reelection fights next year and face questions about health care and ardent conservatives who dont think the bill went far enough. When they figured out wednesday they had the votes and decide to do out thursday and they did it and its a significant achievement whether youre a fan of this president and republicans right now or not theres no denying the house pulled off something many thought they could not do. This is the first major legislative achievement for House Speaker paul ryan whos been on the job a little over 18 months and the signature achievement for property and if you thought the house was difficult let me introduce you to the upper chamber. Charlie sarah, pick it up there. Ed is right. The senate will be a struggle. You had two republican centers who came out and said they dont support the bill. Some are concerned about medicaid. Its the cut a lot from medicate and we dont have the cbo score but probably in the neighborhood of 800 billion or so which is a huge concern to the senators in states that expanded medicaid. Its a big victory for republicans but now the senate has to go through a lot of the fights the house already did. Theres discussion the senate might start its own bill from scratch. This is one victory in an ongoing fight and now our focus turns to the senate and what theyll do with the legislation the house has sent them. Charlie theres been much discussion including with my colleague John Dickerson as to what was in the bill and not in the bill. Give us a sense of the key aspects of that conversation in which has been part of the debate the last three or four days whats in the bill and not in the bill . The program suggested its a bill that protects people with preexisting conditions and he wants to sign a bill to protect everybody with a preexisting condition. The problem is theres provisions that are not good for someone who has a preexisting condition. One of the ways that the conservative members of the house caucus was brought on board is letting some Insurance Companies that seek a waiver charge sick people a higher premium. This was a nonnegotiable for the Freedom Caucus. If this bill the house passed goes through and signed into law by President Trump we will once again have an individual market where sick people can face higher premiums because theyre expected to have higher medical bills. Charlie and sometimes high deductions too. Very high deductibles. Charlie ed, when you look at this bill and look at who gave up what, who made the toughest compromise . I think its more mainstream moderate republicans who had to go along to get the concessions sarah was just talking about. These write themselves. Democrats are in fantastic political position they believe because they now get to run campaign ads against republicans saying theyll cut hundreds of billions from medicaid. If have you cancer youll have to pay more for your health care. If your mothers sick youll have to pay for your Health Care Plus your own. Theres ways to spin this. We hat an interview at the post with nancy pelosi and said its easier to talk about things when theyre going to be taken away from americans as oppose to what youll do to change a big law thats becoming a settled issue for Many Americans even if they have general concerns with it. I would say its people who face difficult reelections next year in the suburbs, certainly in the northeast and some florida Congressional District and a handful in california who will face a difficult time explaining what they did especially the nonpartisan been counters claim tens of millions can lose their coverage and the bill could cost billions to the federal government. That was a big risk they took today in having the vote not knowing exactly the potential cost and in many cases members conceding they hadnt read the thing. Charlie why did the president feel he had to do this now rather than go directly to tax reform. You need a lot of the savings the republicans hope to generate from health care in order to help pay for and figure out tax reform. Thats the basic policy answer. He also knows if you cant get health care it may be impossible to get tax reform. It may be very difficult to do eded to get to a point where they got a win and House Republicans felt look, we can governor and come together on something as difficult as this with us and he needed a big policy achievement. This is only step one of probably three or four but it was a big step. He rightfully today wanted to celebrate that with House Republicans and the latest trip to new york to see the australian Prime Minister in order to do so because to date really the only big thing that congress has given him is neil gore gorsuch. Charlie theyll will help him . They got a sense of how the house can Work Together and depending on what a final Health Care Bill looks like and sarahs really the inhouse expert at least in this conversation on what it will do to save money or move money around, it would make doing tax reform easier from a policy suspect as well, yeah. Charlie sarah . I think its a step forward but health care is becoming this allconsuming task. Remember back to january President Trump had said he wants to sign an obama care repeal bill in his first day in office and were now 100 days away from the first day in office and its hard to see a time line where the republicans are both able to finish health care this year and go to tax reform given all the work that has to be done. The senate is talking about writing its own bill and start from scratch and merging those together. When you look at the legislative calendar it seems hard but not impossible to Reform Health care and tax reform in the same year. There was a moment today at the white house at the rose garden event where the president was talking about the fact, people have been telling me maybe you should get rid of paul ryan. The president didnt deny he talked about it and did nothing to suggest he wants ryan to stay put and happy with the work hes done. Clearly that relationship has been strained. It would have been far worse if this had not happened for ryan and trump and their relationship. If theyre not able to Work Together the Republican Party and their ability to governor would be seriously jeopardized. Charlie paul ryan has consistently said ever since obama care was act the affordable Health Care Act was passed republican said they had to do something about it and tried to change it include court challenge. Here it is, finally having a republican president not to have acted on this, according to paul ryan, would have been a defying of their own constituency. It would have been an existential crisis and he said there are people in the chamber now who are here because they vowed to take this vote. If we dont take this vote their entire political existence is alled into question. I think that remained the motivating factor for many of these republican members and probably will for the senators as well. They understand much of their political success in recent years has been to rail against legislation like this and they need to demonstrate they at least tried hard to get it done. One of the interesting dynamics weve seen develop is it seems like no one wants to be blamed for stopping this. So you see in the first round of negotiations the Freedom Caucus had the finger pointed at them for the road block and then the moderates were in the hot seat and its a hot potato no one wants to drop though they dont like the final product. Well see that dynamic played not senate. Theres hurdles towards passing legislation but one of the things i learn from the health care process is that nobody at the end of the day wants to be the one with the finger pointed at them saying youre the one standing in the way of this Campaign Promise weve made for seven years. I think it will be a motivating factor in the senate to pass something. Charlie when you look at this bill which many people havent as you pointed out, how rare is that people are asked to vote on something you dont know whats in it . Incredibly rare. And republicans demanded you needed a cbo score and democrats have chastised republicans but we could see a cbo score showing millions losing coverage. The vote has been taken. You cant take back the fact you voted for it. It seems quite a risk republicans are taking to vote for a Health Care Bill when they dont know how many people it covers or costs. Charlie can they go to their constituents and say we did it. We said wed repeal and replace obama care and we did it, thank you very much. We dont know they have. First of all, the way its written now its not a wholesale replacement of the Affordable Care act. Its a rewrite so if you wanted it wiped clean you wont be happy. The other risk if members go home tonight for a weeklong recess for some reason theyre take break in the middle of may im calling it the mothers day recess if they are asked whats in it and struggle to answer i think even republican supporters will wonder was that the best thing to do. It shows they were willing to put it all at risk and put out to vote because they understand the consequence of dragging it out longer and fumbling the ball yet again was worse than taking the vote now and starting the process and kicking it over to the senate. Charlie so is it greater than 50 50 the republicans wont be able to create a bill signed by the president that will be a republican act of health care . I think it is certainly an uphill battle but the desire to pass something is very strong. As ed was about to say, given that republicans control the senate, the white house is going to be hard to go back to the voters and say we werent able to get this done and it weighs heavily on republican legislators. And theres at least a 52 chance they can do it. The question will be whether they get 51 because theres no democrat who plans to vote with them. It was described to me by democratic aides said theyre sitting on their hands. Charlie thank you. Well be right back. Stay with us. 23 years ago three selfdescribed hipsters created a free montrealbased magazine which quickly developed a reputation for bold, provocative reporting. Its called vice. Its now becomes a multiplatform corporation valued at 5 billion. Along the way theyve avoided the trapping of traditional view media and doing instead immersive journalism and has been characterized as hard news with an edge. Vice news tonight was launched and hbos first nightly news program. We have shane smith the founder and ceo of vice media and the executive director of Vice News Tonight and host of the weekly documentary series and josh tyrangiel. Im please to have them both back on this program. Thank you. Charlie welcome back. Thank you. Charlie tell me what vice media is as if i dont know. We started the magazine in montreal then we came down here as the first dotcom revolution which went bust and then we moved to brooklyn and started being a Digital Company so online. We were the first to do online video and native advertising and all that good stuff and got bigger and bigger and grew internationally and we have online and mobile and magazines and agencies, we have record label. Its a Media Company. Charlie valued at about 5 billion is that about right . Well, that was last year. Charlie david carr said its hellbent libertarianism and colorful literacy. I was lucky i got to spend time with david. Charlie you loved him on the show. We met when he was shooting page one and butted heads and became good friends and we were in dublin and they called and said if we get shane will you come to dublin and we said sure. We both went and it was a love fest and we went away and we got this place and set up all these irish musicians and david and i just danced around this crazy castle together. We was one of the best and called it right. We are no rules, nonparademic. Charlie is it news . Its entertaining news. I think one of the things to speak of reviews or critiques the first review of vice news by the New York Times said its hipsters in skinny jeans and tattoos highfiving in war zones. Everyone was bombed and i said its perfect because theyre not getting us on the facts or dinging us on the story and theyre not saying its not great but theyre saying we look different and if we look different guess what, thats our audience. Those are the millennials. So you can have the older generation. Well take the Younger Generation and if youre making fun of how we dress which is how they dress, its a win. Charlie so you come up with a nightly presence. Did you say lets get the guy who knows how to do a taped show or magazine and hell tell us what to do. He said it was his idea and knew what he wanted to do. He loves the news we create for hbo and we love being on hbo. Its a great platform for us. When he came to us and said look, we want to do this not weekly. We want to do it all the time and nightly it was a big conundrum. We didnt want a voice of god. We didnt want hosts. We didnt want it to look like other news because it could be derivativ derivativ derivative and i got sick of beating by this guy at the awards shows every year at bloomberg. Charlie in the magazine business. Yes, hed always be up for best magazine and would always win. When we wanted someone with a Creative Vision to reinvent news which is hard to do because it has to be recognizable to call it news but different enough so were not derivative. Charlie you had been at Time Magazine and other places and bloomberg. You had no trepidation about this. When you were leaving a tons of people wanted you to come do a variety of things. Why was this right for you . It was a combination of things. I like solving problems and the naugh naughtier the problem the more interested i am and ive been blessed with having good patron. You need support because you wont get it right first time out but ten when you take on a big media problem like how to get people to watch something they havent watched in 60 years. On one hand, shane has a record of being the right kind of media rogue and said well do it and figure it out. And hbo was expressing the kind of commitment you need and insistence on quality. So i felt safe which say weird thing to say because jumping into the most Competitive Landscape which is just delivering news over the air is not a safe thing. I felt like of all the things i could potentially do and was interested in you can have impact, you can be smart, you can have permission to experiment and thats a dream. Thats what you want to be able to do. Charlie beyond that what are the elements of it, the nightly show . When shane and i first spoke about this and i think i said this to him and richard, you know, nobody needs this, right . The medias changed so much. If youre an engaged news consumer youre getting it all day, on your phone, over the radio, tv. So nobody needs it to just tell you what happened. What happened is pretty obvious. To do this you have to make people want it by seducing them. You have to give them something a little bit familiar. Were unconventional in many ways. The thing were very conventional about is you watch the show and youll hear a lot of abo