Manipulation, there is some propaganda, there is a lot of repression, but it is also a genuine perception that putin has made the country more stable. Glor we continue with steven cook of the council of Foreign Relations and talk about the recent saudi arabianled block aid of qatar and what it means for the middle east and the u. S. The qatarys are going to be isolated from the region. There is too much mistrust now among the leaders of these countries for them to repair the relationship in a way where there is constructive cooperation, common interests that the saudis and the emiratis will be willing to work with the qatarys, the egyptian, and vice versaa. Glor conclude with personal technology comist Walt Mossberg. He talked to charlie about hits recent retirement and career in journalism. I feel very comfortable wit. I really think of it and ease planned when i announced it as a reinvention. Thats not a rhetorical dodge. Every so often, you have to reinvent yourself and, so, when i say im retiring, it means im not going to have a regular job but im not going to stop doing things. Glor russia, qatar and a conversation with Walt Mossberg, when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Glor good evening, im jeff glor filling in for charlie rose who is traveling. All next week the pps newshour will air a series called inside putins russia, it is the product of reporting by journalist Nick Schifrin and producer zach fannin. They recently traveled to a dozen russian cities in an attempt to better understand the country. The sixpart series will explore everything from the bilateral relationship with the u. S. To widespread propaganda and the fate of putins enemies. The First Episode of inside putins russia deals with the russian identity and the National Perception and popularity of president putin. Heres a look. The idea that the state is more important than the people is actually not new. Russians have long had a collective identity. For us, the man is collective concept. We consider ourselves to be the part of the whole. So to be russian means to share the same culture and historic identity. Glor for years tv fixture and fire brand Alexander Dugan inspired the ideology. He says russias collective identity comes from patriotism, collective power and respect for the ruler. Putin taps into all three. It is organic, not artificial. Empire or state is not something additional or artificial because it is our breath, our skin, our organic way of life. Todays kremlin uses that patriotism to try to unit the population and convince them only a powerful state can protect them from enemies. Enemy number one, the u. S. America is on the brink of a revolution. Dugan and the kremlin accused the u. S. Of humiliating russia by expanding n. A. T. O. To russias borders and supporting revolutions in former soviet states and satellites. Dugan advocates fighting back by attacking the u. S. With asmog alertic war. You talk ability geopolitical disorder, dissident movements, extremism, racist, sectarian groups. Exactly as you do. Its exactly what you do. You are supporting this group, supporting any kind of a nationalist including nationalist russias that are against putin. Sit a mirror of what you are doing. You are frightened so much because you are doing the same thing against us. Glor Nick Schifrin joins us. Pleased to welcome him to the program. Thank you very much. Glor the first part you talk about in the series is something thats important that not a lieutenant of people hear and see and that is how russian sees Vladimir Putin versus how Many Americans see Vladimir Putin. Yeah, and i think this goes to why russians, when the u. S. Attacks russia, sees it as an attack on their identity, and i think thats really important. Over the last 15 or so years, putin has brought relative stability to russia. Anybody old enough to remember the 90s will remember the political and economic chaos of that, so that is the first step. The second step is recreating russian traditions like the Orthodox Church, presoviet traditions like the kosics into a level of pride in shared religion and shared traditions, and thats tapped into a collective identity that russias long had, and that means that the pride that russians feel, the patriotism that russians feel today, yes, there is some manipulation, there is some propaganda, theres a lot of repression, but it is also a genuine perception that putin has made the country more stable, has made it better, russias able to project power and that means that putins popularity is genuine. Its nostalgia. Nostalgia, imperial grandeur, some would call it imperial dpiewngs dliewngs tapping into russias imperial history. But its also genuine and legitimate in the sense you have russian traditions, russian religion, the Orthodox Church and the real sense of the ability to project power. That is fundamental to the russian identity and putins brought that back aivment combination of the old and new. What new things is he doing to maintain that level of support which is overwhelming. It is, its not quite 90 like after crimea, but its still 60 or 70 , and things like crimea just a few years ago, things like syria are able to convince russians that putin is strong, hes respected on the international stage, and he can project russian power. A lot of that comes from russian propaganda, of course. You get just an echo of the points on russian tv from some of these anchors saying putin is so strong and everyone is so weak, so, partially, it is that. But they do see russia has a huge role to play in both the region and the middle east and russians think thats a good thing. Glor the Russian Television not just in russia but also americans get a bit of that, too. Absolutely. There are two parts of. This one is the Propaganda Machine inside russia and its gone through different messages and changes but the consistency is this, we have to rally around russia and that there are lots of enemies and, right now, the message is, you know, russia may not be great, but the west isnt great either and you should support us, you should support the government because you need strength right now. The second part of that is the externally focused stuff. R. T. , sputnik. And the head of r. T. , the editorinchief, but also the most popular anchor this russia admits that information is a weapon and theyve aimed it at russias enemies and that means trying to destabilize the west through these propaganda campaigns and frankly the propaganda campaigns went far into the United States and President Trump certainly echoes some of those propaganda points. Glor information and cyber warfare have been weaponized. One in the same. The russians dont see it differently. Early last year there was a fake story about the socalled rape of a germanrussian girl. It was fake. The Russian Media knew it was fake, the Russian Foreign ministry knew it was fake yet foreign minister lavrov used it against german chancellor angela merkel. So you have a sense this is all combined, you can use all the tools to weaken your enemies. Glor there is chick suffering in russia now. I wonder how the Putin Administration fends off any discussion of that or any negligentive discussion of that. This is where you see a generational divide, at least this is what were seeing especially in the last few months. There are a lot of people who say the 90s were worse and, yeah, maybe the economy is not so great, but putin has brought stability. You have a Younger Generation that says, wait a minute, why are there potholes on the road if were in ukraine and crimea and syria, why isnt my life better . I dont remember the 90s because im not old enough to remember and thats what Alexei Navalny the lead opposition figure has tapped into. He says, look, these people are, in his words, crooks and thieves and taking your money and the Younger Generation agrees. They say, yes, we are not as rich as we should be. The older generation are holding on to ideas of russian identity. Glor where is the opposition and is it growing . It is growing in the sense that twothirds of the country now believes corruption is the number one problem, so that is a see change. That is not something we would have gotten six or nine months ago. Alexei navalny is a 41yearold prominent politician. A lot of people who are young really like him. He goes to these events and takes selfies with literally hundreds of people. He speaks their language. There is probably a ceiling to his popularity and that is partially generational and partially because of urban, liberal, highereducated russians will be listening to him whereas the other part of the country will be listening to the propaganda on the evening. But his growing popularity, the kremlin takes him very seriously, and hes beginning to change peoples perceptions. Glor how much does Vladimir Putin dictate how popular he may become . Marsha has a good sense on whether putin is this master manipulator. She says, you know, there are emanations that come from the kremlin, that come from the top. Is almost shakespearean. Oh, who can rid me of this person . I need to walk out of the room, then the loyal lieutenants kind of figure it out. How much control putin has in everything, were just guessing, but the system is clearly very much a product of what he and the kremlin and his loyal lieutenants want and, right now, there is a lot of efforts to try and discredit navalny and one of them is president putin never mentions his name, tries not to take him seriously at all, even though the police take it seriously, even though the oligarchs connected to putin attack navalny and take it seriously, the structures of the state are taking it seriously even know the president pretends hes not. Glor Vladimir Putin has been battling terrorism inside his own country ever since he assumed office in 99. I know you did reporting on that. What is the state of what is happening right now . Well, youve got a few examples of that. One is, i think ideologically for russia, that is exactly what they want us, whether western reporters or the administration glor the same thing. That is exactly what they want. This is a grand bargain whether the Southwest Corner of syria, expands to the middle east, everywhere, this is a civilization battle, use language President Trump used the other day to say we need to come together. More locally, theyve also had to deal with local incidents in st. Petersburg and moscow before that of terrorism, and down south where we went to dagestan, one of the republics on russias southern border, the insurgency is not that hot there. Near chech an chechnya where tht two wars, not that violent now, but there is a huge amount of police and Security Services presence, a lot of what critics call brutal tactics, and that has led to an exodus of some of these fight, from dagestan and chechnya to i. S. I. S. Weve seen these over the last couple of years, and russia is doing everything it can to make sure those people do not come back, and a lot of them tell us that, right before the 2014 olympics, actually russian Security Services facilitated some of those peoples travel to syria in order to get them out of russia. So dagestan is safer, chechnya is safer. Whether syria and iraq are safer is another question. Glor where does Vladimir Putin want the people in the u. S. To believe he is on i. S. I. S. Right now . I actually think it is relatively genuine when he says that we are fighting a civilizational war, and i. S. I. S. Is the enemy. Now, the technicalities of that in syria are another question. There are a lot of people and a lot of people in this administration who followed this directly, the u. S. Administration, who say russian jets are not attacking i. S. I. S. Russian jets are attacking whoever russias enemy is that day and propping up the assad regime. But, overall, you know, russia presents itself as an enemy to i. S. I. S. And is trying to align itself with the u. S. On that very basis. Glor what do people in russia think about donald trump . Theyre disappointed. Glor in what way . They heard a candidate who said, we wont meddle in syria or elsewhere, we wont meddle in other peoples backyards, who said i love putin, he says nice things about me, im going to say nice things about him. And then i think the bombing of syria after the chemical weapons attack convinced russians that trump, to quote the foreign ministerry spokeswoman, you know, the swamp has drained trump, basically, meaning trump is just another republican president and there is disappointment he hasnt been able to deliver on what he or at least what the candidate trump, the presentation of on russian tv, seemed to suggest, which was a much better bilateral relationship, and that obviously has not happened. I mean, most russia watchers say this is one of the most tense moments between the two countries in decades. Glor fascinating series for pbs newshour. Nick schifrin, inside putins russia airs all next week. Nick, thank you so much. Thank you. Glor the Trump Administration grapples with north korea, there is also trouble brewing between some of americas allies half a world away. A saudiled blockade of the strategically important nation of qatar is entering its second month. Saudi arabiaia, egypt, bahrain, and the United Arab Emirates accused of qatar of supporting terror groups. This week qatar rejected a long list of demands that included cutting ties to the muslim brotherhood, distancing itself from iran and closing aljazeera, the statesponsored broadcaster. Joining me from washington is steven cook, of the council of Foreign Relations. He is the author of false dawn protest, democracy, and violence in the new middle east. Steven, good to see you. A lot of this comes down to what the saudis and the emiratis say is support for terrorism, but thats hard to define, isnt it . It is pardon to define. I think it is hard to define. I think its clear, however, that the qatarys have worked with, coordinated, given safe haven to groups that have engaged in terrorist activity and violence around the region, and it is one of the chief complaints to have the saudis and emiratis. But of course the saudis dont have a particularly good track record on this issue either. So seems there is more going on here than just the question of the qataris position to hamas or the taliban or al quaidarelated groups in syria. Glor if were talking about the genesis of this, the saudis and emiratis say its terrorism but this has been simmering for quite some time. Thats absolutely right. You have to look at this crisis in a broader Historical Context in which these three countries and the ruling families of these three countries do not see eye to eye on things. In 1995, the saudis emiratis and other partners tried to engineer a coup that would overthrow the current emirs father and install a government more friendly to the saudis and emiratis and be a part of an alignment within the Gulf Cooperation Council, this organization that encompasses all these gulf states, in which the qatarys would essentially toe the saudi line. The qataris wanted to pursue a more independent foreign policy. Glor what is Rex Tillerson trying to do . Tillerson is trying to manage the conflict. Hes working with the kuwaitis who positioned themselves as the gulf mediator. Qatar hosts the largest u. S. Military base in the region, 11,000 personnel there, the place from which the United States runs the campaign against the islamic state, runs the war against iraq and afghanistan. Yet the emiratis, saudis, bahrainis and egyptians are partners of the United States, so tillerson is looking for something within those 13 demands that the qataris have said are nonnegotiable and saudis and emiratis said are nonnegotiable that he can work. With my sense is theyre trying to figure out between the kuwaitis and secretary of state tillerson, parts of the demands the qataris can work, with that can be tillersons demands, u. S. Conditions that all the parties can agree to, but, thus far, no one has been willing to budge. The qataris rejected. They said were willing to talk about some of these things but not till you lift the block aid, we wont negotiate under the block aid, and the saudis emiratis, egyptians and bahrainis have said these are nonnegotiable items, you have rejected these demands, they are now void and we will pursue other policies to isolate qatar in the region and beyond. Glor there is a big and odd laundry list of demands. Some would seem like nonstarters. When you look at them, eight are complete nonstarters, and the other five are nonstarters from the perspective of the qataris. Shutting down aljazeera is something the qataris wouldnt possibly do. Aljazeera is a source of the countrys influence not just in the region but around the world. To pay compensation to victims of things that the qataris to whom . What is the evidence these other countries bring to the table . To end its ties with iran, well, it turns out these other countries also have ties to iran. For all the business that the qataris have done with the iranians, the iranians with whom they share one of the Worlds Largest domes of gas. Dubai banks are also doing a lot of business with the iranians. Thats not to defend the qataris, its just to point out some of these