The depart of Anthony Scaramucci and the conversation with jeff flake when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Charlie we begin with news out of the white house Anthony Scaramucci has been removed as Communications Director after 11 days in the role. Me attracted widespread criticism for his behavior. His exit comes on the same day general john kelly was sworn in as President Trumps new chief of staff. John kelly is seen as someone who may bring order to the west wing and he has an opportunity to give general kelly a clean slate and the ability to build his own team. Phil rucker is a White House Bureau chief and political analyst for msnbc and Jonathan Swan a National Political reporter for axios. Im pleased to have them both on the program. Phillip, what happened . With it simple or did he insist on an empty slate . Thats right. He came in as chief of staff and empowered the way Reince Priebus was never empowered. The whole staff would report to him including Anthony Scaramucci and he decided he doesnt want scaramucci here and he was a liability with the interview he gave last week to the new yorker and the decision was made he had to go and he agreed and was fine to leave and let general kelly have a clean slate sto start over. Charlie do we know now more about the marching instructions general kelly has from President Trump is it i want a clean slate and get started because im unhappy the way things have turned out the First Six Months. President trump knows hes had chaos and disorder in his white house and because of that in part theres no legislative achievements and he wanted general kelly to come in and whip the place into shape,4 and part of that involves getting the staff in line. Kelly is now empowered to overrule all these factions within the white house. Everyone will report through him. Its important to know kellys not of these factions. Hes respected and well liked by the nationalist and family folks like jared and ivanka and will remain in the white house. They like kelly and at least for now they seem to be willing to behave. Charlie have we, jonathan, heard from scaramucci . Id rather not comment on my own conversations. He hasnt spoken publicly. He hasnt said anything yet with a statement with the white house president secretary. One thing i would say in terms of what went down theres some reports coming out now the trump family women were horrified and disgusted by his language which is the most absurd retrospective analysis to try and put a nice coat of paint in all this. In real time we were not getting the horror, the horror about the comments leaked out and President Trumps first reaction was he thought it was funny and the next day he was joking about it and saying can you believe this guy. Hes crazy, what am i going to do with him. This is very much a general kelly decision. This is general kelly from the outset sending a signal he was in charge and everyone goes through him. Thats the authority he was giving by the president and firing scaramucci send a big signal to the staff. Charlie there was an interview with peter baker where he said youre either if youre chief of staff all the good ones have been stabbed rather than cheap and it has to do with their relationship to the staff that makes the difference in the white house. And look, scaramucci was brought in for a very specific purpose. Jared and ivanka and this is not wishful retrospectful reporting around he was brought in to destroy Reince Priebus. I dont imagine it was as controversial and a lot of people on the press team couldnt stand him and didnt want to work under him and the a lot of other people after the interview came out one senior official said if this kind of behavior is condoned it makes me question whether this is the kind of place i want to work. Getting rid of him was a very important cultural signal to the west wing. Charlie Reince Priebus had joined the white house staff for a while had he not . No, thats true. Charlie the other question that looms over general kelly arriving is can he say no to donald trump . Is the at longlastne peron that can say no to donald trump and perhaps influence his behavior. Is there some indication he can . Thats the big question right now whether trump is willing to be disciplined and tamed. T very best to try and i am upon the president how important it is to be disciplined, to be thoughtful, to be strategic in his actions but at the end of the day im not sure hell be able to change that much of what the president actually does. Charlie jonathan, do we know more about the Television Conversation and why he did it . Anthony does this. Anyone whos covered him will tell you hes colorful. A lot of reporters have dealt with him as a political donor to the Republican Party and a colorful figure on wall street. He usually did say off the record im told by others sometimes he forgets to say that and reporter have cut him slack but generally i understand he thought the conversation was off the record and never said that. I think he might have set it later in the conversation for a certain portion but it was genuinely just very sloppy performance. Jonathan, i would add to this capacity he wasnt the donor anymore he was a Communications Director. You start speaking for the president. You should know to say off the record if youre going to be off the record. I am not excusing it yeah. It does show you how inexperience one of the arguments they were making for why he should not come to the white house is hes unqualified and inexperienced and if theres proof is saying all this stuff without saying off the record. Charlie does he stay in new york or washington . My understanding is he wants to stay in the administration but i dont have confirmation thats going to happen and they left that open in the press conference. Charlie and the president has said nothing . Not too my knowledge unless somethings happened in the last ten minutes. Charlie thank you both. Its a fascinating first day for john kelly. Big first day. Thank you, charlie. Charlie thank you, jonathan. Well be right back. Stay with us. Senator flake is here serving as a junior United States senator from arizona since 2013. The senior senator is john mccain. He said the conservative movement has lost its way and urges fellow republicans to put aside partisan politics and do whats best of the country. We take this interview at 11 00 a. M. This morning prior to the news that Anthony Scaramucci is ousted. Heres the conversation with senator flake. Thank you. We only did a morning show and its been a busy time. It has. How does a United States senator have time in a time like this to write a book . Late nights. Charlie early mornings or late nights. I promised my wife i wouldnt do it at home when i needed to spend time obviously with her and the kids so a lot of late nights, yeah. Charlie how did you write it . Well, i started actually last year. Last july or so. I started thinking that a book like this needed to be written and started to write parts of it and parts of it were written a decade ago when i was in the house of representatives. Every time i would travel home on the weekend on the plane before we had wifi on planes i would write. I have ten brothers and sisters and they were interested in what happened in washington that week and my wife sheryl said youd better write it and post it on the family website if you dont theyll be calling you all weekend to see what happened and it will allow you to spend more time at home and i did and kept a journal in the house 12 years and a lot of that has ended up in the book. To write this particular book i thought at that time were going if the wrong direction. Some will see this as a critique of the president. Its not. Its a critique of where the movements gone the last decade and think weve been losing our way for a while. Charlie the issue of behavior has looked to the president. Its worsened but the staying up and yelling you lie during the presidency during the obama state of the union and theres examples of after Gabby Gifford was shot and a year later she came back to congress to resign the next day but i was with her at the state of the union. I was her friend. I sat next to her. She was still unable to stand very easily and when president obama at that time, when the applause lines would come i helped her up and left he standing amid a lot of democrats and i started getting texts and emails from friends and other diehard republicans saying why are you standing when the president is talking. Why are you standing . I thought thats out of hand frankly you cant even do that. Charlie and the feeling that both sides of the aisle leaders were held hostage by caucuses. I think thats worsened over time. The us versus them and shirts versus skins over time. 24hour Media Coverage and social media has exacerbated that but its really our responsibility to break out. Steve scalise shot at the softball game, you were one of the first people to reach him if not the first. Yeah, i was the first. After the shooting stopped i ran out to him and it was a terrible thing. Charlie he was bleeding and you had to apply a tourniquet. I applied pressure and others were wounded. Charlie and you called his wife so she heard first from a friend rather than on television. I got him to the stretcher and off the field i went to call my wife to make sure she didnt see it and one of the Staff Members grabbed steves phone and gave it to me and said would you call jennifer. I didnt want her to see it on the news and learn of it that way. But i just remember just ten minutes earlier when the shooting started there was one shot that rang out and i knew it was a shot and someone yelled shooter. I remember turning to the dugout ten yards away being the only safe place to go that was a proper dugout to get down and seeing the gravel pitching up as bullets were hitting it but it was the only place to run and but i had this thought, why . Here . Really . Us . It was in congruent. Charlie what do we think about the motive now of the shooter . He had asked a few members who left early is this a republican practicing or democrats and they said republican and he had up his pocket a list of republicans and posted things that looked like he had it in more for republicans than democrats but i dont think he knew anybody in particular or was aiming for anybody in particular. But i mention in the book this came after the book was really finished but i added a couple paragraphs saying how awful it is to have somebody look out to see a bunch of middleaged middleaged members of congress and saying theyre the enemy. The way we look to other americans as the enemy and its troublesome. It really should motivate us i think to be a little kinder and a little more gentle and in one of the chapters into the book i talk about growing up in snowflake. Ten brothers and sisters. Charlie snowflake, arizona. One of 11 on a cattle ranch. Charlie your family has been in arizona for a while. Brigham young send my great grandmother William Jordan lake to colonize and found a valley to settle an apostle came along and was overseeing the colonization and asked him if he started a settlement and he said yes and he said call it snowflake and thats where i grew up. I had wonderful examples of my father who was mayor of snowflake. He passed away just a month ago in snowflake. My uncle jake flake from snowflake was speaker of the house he passed away ten years ago after being thrown from his horse. One of the last gentle cowboy legislators in his early 70s. My uncle was in the house. Charlie was it inevitable you went into politics . No, i have lots of cousins and sisters and brothers that havent. Charlie and your family have served in high positions in arizona. What always struck me was like jake and jack brown a democrat from st. John a great udall boy and thighs republicans and democrats got along well. In fact i mentioned in the book, i talk about how the flakes were mostly democrat. In the late 1800s the mor church was concerned there would be too many republicans or too Many Democrats and when a new administration would come in it might favor the other party and the church obviously had been concerned about things like that after the extermination order from missouri and that was fresh in their minds. The church said you on the left pews are democrats and you on the right are republicans in snowflake the ones east of main street were democrat and west were republicans. The flakes were east of main street so we were democrats really until this generation. Charlie while he was alive, marlo Marlon Brando use to communicate with me because the program was on late and would always describe things as snowflake. Where we leave it how is congressman scalise doing today . Because after the shooting and went to the hospital there was a sense it was worse than we thought and maybe a turn for the worse and he seems better now from what i read. He is. Hes out of the hospital and now in rehab. I spoke to his wife and saw his wife last week and hes doing better. The infection they had to go back and operate for seems to be taken care of and hes got a long road ahead obviously. Its a tough injury but boy he is tough. He has the whole country pulling for him and a great family. Charlie charlie after Something Like this there is always whether its new town theres two things that happen. One, the country unites in spirit for people who have been the victims of gun violence and at the same time people come forward and say lets figure out a way to do something about this. And then time passes and it fades. I do think after Gabby Giffords shooting it lasted for a while it used to be republicans and democrats on the other side and youd bring a date and frankly that was a good thing and not doing that anymore but it isnt as republican and democrat as it used to be. There is some lasting overall. Weve got to get away from ascribing the worse motives to our political opponents. Charlie is redistricting part of the problem . Yes, i talk a lot about that in the book. These days with the way you can use Computer Software and mapping you can choose your constituents rather than them choosing you. It has had an impact. A big impact. Its driven. Charlie the idea is if you redistrict so its primarily heavily republican then there is not an effort to reach out to democrats. Thats correct. And you have districts completely safe. You only worry about the primary. You just worry about the base and thats it. No, no matter how you redistrict if its just geography or what youll have some of those districts but right now you have far too many of those districts. Some states like arizona have experimented with independent redistricting commissions. One type or another. That tends to work sometimes. But its stuff. Its tough when the ability is there for politicians to choose their voters. Theyll try do so. So it has driven our politics apart and my biggest concern is charlie everything weve talked about is pretrump and pre2016 election. Obama and boehner could never reach a bargain. What bothers me most the biggest thing we need to do is reach the grand bargain on spending. We have the simpsonbowles for a cut in spending for revenue and we have to do a semblance of that. We know the basic contours of what that will look like but given the way the parties have driven apart its almost impossible to see when one Party Republican now with control over both chambers in the white house or if the democrats were in control of all three theres no way that party will take the Political Risk because the other party simply wont help. They say let them bear the risk and brunt. Midterm elections are never more than two years away and it just really makes it difficult to see how we tackle the big things. I mentioned in the chapter when general mattis was asked what concerns you most. People expected him to talk about the Nuclear Threat in iran or north korea and he said basically dysfunction in washington. The lack of basic civility. Charlie bob gates says that all the time. The problem we have is three square miles. If we cant come together on debt and deficit and basic things charlie taxes and spending. Commitment to things like science and research. And immigration. How we deal with that. Longterm issues longterm issues, health care. Charlie politicians say youll get defeated if you depend on that. Yeah, that may be the case but we politician have to recognize theres some things more important than reelection. And it was difficult to write this book. Charlie i heard youre behind . You can discount the polls but having said that its a tough time to write a book like this. Charlie you department your family didnt know. And its not the easiest path to reelection. Campaigns are risk averse and you dont want to introduce any variables. It makes some people upset but i felt it was important enough to do. And just to deal with the consequences because were in a bad way now and have to come together as a country and around principles of Economic Freedom or free trade and just in terms of demeanor and comportment and basic kindness, the last chapter is talking about the way forward and i talk about what i grew up with with the saying in our home, put on the refrigerator as long as i can remember, assume the best and look for the good. Thats what my mother and father always wanted to teach us. Charlie assume the best, look for the good. Assume the best and look no r future good and we can use more of that in politics. Charlie how is john mccain doing . He starts today a regime of chemotherapy and radiation. I