Transcripts For KRCB PBS NewsHour 20121221

Captioning sponsored by Macneil Lehrer productions brown after talks between president obama and Congressional Republicans stall, the house moves toward a vote on Speaker Boehners planb for limited tax increases. Good evening, im jeffrey brown. Suarez and im ray suarez. On the newshour tonight, we sort through the state of play and the latest political maneuvering with congress watcher Norman Ornstein and Political Editor christina bellantoni. Brown then we look at the suspension of the u. N. s Polio Eradication Campaign in pakistan, after the killings of nine aid workers. Suarez from capitol hill, ame lman repor on two congressional hearings today where state Department Officials accepted blame in failing to protect the u. S. Diplomatic mission in libya. We have to do better. We owe it to our colleagues who lost their lives in benghazi. We owe it to the Security Professionals who acted with such extraordinary heroism that awful night to try to protect them, and we owe it to thousands of our colleagues serving america with a great dedication every day in diplomatic posts around the world. Brown spending versus saving amid the lastminute holiday rush, paul solman weighs the economic benefits. Holiday season Grand Central ternal and a key question is consumerism kind of a bad thing thats overdone this time of year . Or is it the key driving economic and moral force in our society . Suarez and we close with another in our series of interviews with newly elected congressional members. Tonight, north dakotas senator elect, democrat heidi heitkamp. Brown thats all ahead on tonights newshour. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by moving our economy for 160 years. Bnsf, the engine that connects us. And by the alfred p. Sloan foundation. Supporting science, technology, and improved Economic Performance and Financial Literacy in the 21st century. And with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. And. This program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Brown the u. S. House of representatives headed toward approval this evening of a tax plan that republicans backed and docrats said was a waste time. The division demonstrated that efforts to get a bipartisan agreement and avoid the fiscal cliff are stuck in stalemate. The house will be in order. Brown House Republicans pushed their plan b. Despite a veto threat from the white house and the strong opposition of senate democrats. Speaker john boehner insisted the president had left him with no alternative. For weeks the white house said if i moved on rates that they would make substantial concessions on spending cuts and entitlement reforms. I did my part. Theyve done nothing. Brown the public sniping continued at the white house, press secretary jay carney fired back that the president had shown more of a willingness to compromise than republicans have. He never said, either in private or in public, that this was his final offer. He understands that to reach a deal it would require some further negotiation. There is not much further he coulgo because after all, unlike his counterparts in this negotiation he has already gone half way on both sides of the equation. Brown the president would raise tax rates on households making at least 400,000 a year. By contrast, boehners plan b pegs that threshold at 1 million a year. It also drops the 1,000 Child Tax Credit for families who dont earn enough to pay federal income taxes. And, it would let an expansion of the College Tuition tax credit expire. Republicans argued both those provisions were to have been temporary anyway, under the president s original stimulus package. Initially, boehners plan did nothing to stop acrosstheboard spending cuts that take effect in the new year, under the fiscal cliffs mandates. But today, Republican Leaders offered a companion bill to replace 55 billion in automatic cuts to defense spending. Those would be swapped out for additional reductions in domestic programs. House majority leader eric cantor predicted both measures would pass. We hope that the sate ll take this bill up along with the spending reduction act and get the job done in lieu of or absent any kind of agreement coming from the white house. We are again, taking concrete brown some republican members, such as Tim Huelskamp of kansas, still had strong objections. I do not support plan b. Apparently it was amended late last night. I still do not support it. Point being, there is a pretty big tax increase still in there. And its always been a long principle of mine as well as most in the Republican Party that we dont raise taxes and we look at the spending side. Brown but when floor debate began this afternoon, the leadership lined up republicans who supported the measure. Mr. Speaker, this is the right medicine for 99. 8 of americans to prevent them from seeing their taxes go up on january 1st. And it gives us an opportunity in the next session of congress to provide comprehensive tax reform that will simplify our tax code. Brown on the other side of the aisle, democrats, like gary peters of michigan, said the fine print in the g. O. P. Plan does real harm. Chstmas is a time giving, but sadly republicans are taking. Taking food off the table from millions of American Families that are struggling in these tough Economic Times by cutting Food Assistance by 36 billion. Taking the unemployment lifeline away from more than two million americans who are trying to get back on their feet. Brown and in the senate, democratic majority leader harry reid warned today the boehner plan is a nonstarter in his chamber. Were not taking up any of the things they are working on over there. Its time for republicans to get serious. Its very, very, very unfortunate that republicans have wasted an entire week on a number of pointless political stunts, and thats what theyve been. Brown as the day wound down, there appeared to be little prospect for any agreement before christmas. Brown whats going on and where do things stand . Joining me now Norman Ornstein, a longtime watcher of congress and a scholar at the American Enterprise institute, and newsho policalditor christina bellantoni. Christina, what are we watching snowed whats going on . Whats the thinking on whats up in the house of representatives tonight . A lot of people are a little confused by what Speaker Boehner is trying to do here because weve got plenty of plenty of time is probably not the right word to use but theres a lot of time in congressional terms when it comes to the urgency of this fiscal cliff matter. So theyre having a vote before they leave for christmas on a plan that a lot of republicans are signing on to because they feel like they have to but whatever they hold these votes later and late interthe evening thats a signal theyre not quite there yet and thats what youre seeing happen today and this companionillou mentioned in that piece there, thats where youre seeing the deal making go on. You have to Leadership Team adding to that, putting sweeteners in, things here and there, but politically its a dangerous move for some republicans because this bill, the two companion bills, give both democrats and republicans something to campaign against for these members who vote for it. Theyre raising taxes on millionaires, but then theyre also cutting spending programs, a lot of the domestic programs, that are popular back home. Brow i mispronounced your name. Ive only been talking to you for 20 years. Thank you, mr. Brun. laughter brown so this is all about boehner and to his right. Even with this package hes moving to the right. One leveling look at this and be puzzled. We know these are end games. Stakes are high, you go right to the very end. But usually when you have these moves made you can figure out what the chez move is and whats its about. You can interpret this move by boehner to step back from negotiations where it looked like he and the president were only a couple of hundred billion dollars apart on a o trillion dollar package and abandon them for now to go with this as a move of desperation, knowing that any package to be worked out would fail in among his republicans in the house. Or you could look at it as a clever move where he wants to get them to vote for some tax increase and rate increase and then theyre a little bit pregnant. Then the next time when you bring back the deal you can say were not going to raise the rates to 39. 6 , its only 38 , it wont be a million it will be a half million and maybe get something done. But its a dangerous move. And while christina is right that theres time left, theres no time left to get a comprehensive package. Theres only time to get the rudiments of the deal right at the end of the year and then punt for a few weeks. And even when there when we see that he has to move further to the right to even get the votes to make this happen it shows how dicey all of this is in the house. Brown youre saying it could be there this or that but youre not sure, right . I havent seen a move like this before. Usually you have histrionic statements and theyre not negotiating, were walking away anthen they come back and make it work. This one where he basically drops the negotiations at a critical point to move to a vote that isnt going to go anywhere in the senate, that is only symbolic, is a puzzle. Brown because it is important to remember, as norm just said, that a lot is not in this plan b, right . Absolutely. Brown a lot of the big stuff is pushed to the side. And the big issues that these republicans on the conservative side are against but it doesnt address entitlement spending, major cuts theyre looking to see, they say it doesnt go far enough and it raises taxes to boot o youre seeing a split among conservative groups, too. Today you had Freedom Works come out in favor of this against this bill. The Family Research council against raising taxes here. The club for growth is actually scoring this vote. So they could campaign against these republicans that vote for this today, but on the other side of that, grover norquist, americans for tax reform which obviously writes the Taxpayer Protection pledge sfor it. The chamber of commerce is for it. So its split republicans very much phenomenon two camps and that puts a lot of pressure on Speaker Boehner. Brown in the meantime, the president and the democrats, what, wait . Well, they wait. Theres another risk in all of this which is that youve got liberal democrats growing increasingly antsy believing president obama has already moved too far for them, bringing Social Security into the mix which they had been told would not be brought in and if, as jay carney said, hes ready to move a little more theyre saying youve got the upper hand here. Theyre divided, the American People believe its the republicans who are the obstructionists. If we do over go over the cliff on january 1, all those taxes go up and then you can negotiate from there so its a little tricky for him to move even a little bit more to make this deal before the end of the year as well. And were going to see if the senate responds in any way to this other than simply rejecting the boehner plan if it passes. A lot of the democrats were talkingings to are looking closely at polls that show that the American People generally feel that if we do go over the fiscal cliffs edge or if there is some sort of big crash in the stock market baseden on this uncertain they the republicans will take the blame for that. Again, we keep coming back to this word dangerous. Itsiskyolitally in lots of different ways and the democrats are sort of waiting to say well, lets see what republicans do to one another tonight. Brown what are you hearing about a potential next meeting. We have the holiday coming, right . The president is planning to go to hawaii with his family. The family is going to be heading there soon and he isnt getting on a plane any time soon. He could stay all through weekend. If possible he could wait through monday and eric cantor threatened that today. He said we might stay here all weekend. The senate is intending to come back next thursday and deal with it then. The critical point here is will john baner be willing to bring up a bill in the house thats a compromise that may require more democratic votes than republican votes . That is anathema to him, but it may be the only way out of thiss me. Brown norm ornstein, christina bellantoni, thanks so much. Suarez still to come on the newshour targeting pakistans polio eradication workers; state Department Security failures; the pros and cons of saving versus spending and north dakotas senator elect. But first, the other news of the day. Heres hari sreenivasan. Sreenivasan amid the fiscal cliff fight, members of the house and senate paid final respects today to the late senator daniel inouye. The hawaii democrat died monday at the age of 88. He had served as a u. S. Senator for five decades. Inouyes body lay in state in the capitol rotunda, an honor thats been bestowed on just 31 people. At a service, Senate Majority leader harry reid called him a legend of the senate. Senator inouye was one of the deluxe senators to ever walk the hallowed halls of this great building. Heleaves behind a gacyof public leadership and private kindness that will not be forgotten as long as these walls stand. Dan inouye was an institution, and deserves to spend at least another day in this beautiful building in which he dedicated his life. Sreenivasan a Memorial Service is planned tomorrow at the Washington National cathedral. After that, inouyes body will be flown home to hawaii for burial. The people of newtown, connecticut endured a fourth day of funerals for the mass shooting victims at sandy hook elementary school. Police escorted processions of mourners as five more children and a teacher were laid to rest. Services are also scheduled tomorrow and into the weekend. Meanwhile in washington, Vice President joe biden met with cabinet and Law Enforcement officials to discuss ways of reducing gun violence. Later, attorney general eric holder headed to newtown to meet with those investigating the shootings. The first major winter storm of the season moved across the midwest today and began taking a toll on holiday travelers. Blizzard warnings stretched from kansas to wisconsin as the weather system pushed eastward. It has already dumped a foot of snow in some areas, driven by powerful winds. In turn, some of the nations busiest airports are reporting hundreds of flight delays and cancellations. The countdown to the end of the world was on today, at least in some places. Its based on a reading of the mayan calendar that says a final cataclysm will strike, tomorrow. We have a report narrated by Lindsey Hilsum of independent Television News. Reporter tourists are flocking to mexico and guatemala to sites where the ancient maya lived and where their descendents are channeling the wisdom of their forebearers. Were hoping for some sort of a contact event, meet some beings of other species and really just asking for help. Reporter in the meantime, archaeologists keep trying to explain its the end of an era, not of the world. The ancient maya split time into periods of 400 years and tomorrow is the end of a cycle of 136. 7,000 miles away in moscow, a cold war era bunker is being prepared. The enemy of the state has launched atomic missiles says the voice. Maybe this time it will be an asteroid. The plan is to have a Party Tonight and wait it out. Entry fee a thousand dollars. In china, hundreds of people from the almighty god cult have been arrested for distributing leaflets. Their crime . Not warning of the end of t world but proming war on the big red dragon the communist party. In the south of france its believed by new ages to be the only safe place in the world. Something to do with the shape of the mountain which overlooks the village. But today t. V. Crews and police outnumbered prophets of doom. Sreenivasan in this country, nasa has produced a video to reassure those who need it. Its titled why the world didnt end yesterday. The president of Russia Vladimir Putin put new distance today between his govementnd the egime in syria. In his annual news conference, putin insisted his country is not protecting syrian president bashar assad. He urged assad to hold talks with the opposition, and negotiate an end to the bloodshed. translated we are not concerned about the fate of assads regime. We understand what is going on there and that his family has been in power for 40 years. The changes are undoubtedly needed. We are worried about a different thing what next . We simply dont want the current opposition, having become the authorities, to start fighting the people who are the current authorities and become the opposition and we dont want this to go on forever. Sreenivasan on another matter, putin indicated he plans to sign a law banng u. S. Adtions of russian childn. That ve iretaliation for a new u. S. Law aimed at punishing russian human rights violators. In u. S. Economic news, growth during the summer quarter was better than first estimated. The Commerce Department reported today the economy grew at an annual rate of 3. 1 . And on wall street today, the Dow Jones Industrial average gained more than 59 points to close above 13,311. The nasdaq rose six points to close at 3,050. Those are some of the days major stories. Now, back to ray. Suarez the death toll of polio vaccine workers killed in a string of attacks in pakistan climbed again today. One victim died from wounds sustained in a shooting on wednesday. Tom clarke of independent Television News narrates this report on the difficult decisions the World Health Organization faces between protecting workers and eradicating a disease. Reporter hundreds turned out to bury mohammed hilal, to mourn the loss of a 22yearold student who gave out polio vaccine in his spare time. But they also camto express public outrage at this weeks murders. Nine young people, six of them women, one just 17, have been gunned down since monday, and not at random. A series of coordinated assassinations targeting an annual three day polio Vaccination Campaign. translated we go out door to door and risk our lives to save innocent children from being permanently handicapped. For what . So that our coming generations turn out to be healthy. We work for our country and we are being rewarded in the form of death. What kind of justice is this . Why are we targeted and killed . Reporter until someone claims responsibility, we wont know why. The taliban havent come forward, but extreme Islamist Groups have long opposed western Health Interventions and the role for women in campaigns. Frustration is compounded by the fact they were making such good progress. There were just 56 cases of polio in pakistan this year, the lowest ever. Up until the 1950s, polio, which can paralyze of the children it infects, was one of the worlds most feared diseases. Vaccination programs have steadily eradicated it in rich countries, and in recent decades its been all but wiped out in the developing world too. When the World Health Organization launched its campaign 24 years ago, polio was found in 125 countries, with around 350,000 cases every year. But now its endemic in just parts of three countries nigeria, afghanistan and pakistan. And the cases have dwindled. 650 last year, and just 213 in 2012 so far. The Eradication Program has had setbacks before, like a ban linked to extreme islamists in nigeria that led to knockon outbreaks in 20 other countries. But observers say this weeks violence is something new and requires the who to rethink the battle with polio it has so nearly won. I think it needs to think about how to do it differently. Maybe not as polio for polios sake, but in the context of health. And i know that thats been thought about. I know that the idea of integrating and mixing with other interventions has been thought through but maybe it needs another look. Reporter the w. H. O. Warned failure to eliminate polio from its last few strongholds could mean as many as 200,000 new cases every year with a decade. That would be cruel memorial to the young volunteers who were so close to wiping it out for good. Suarez for more on all of this, we are joined by joel chrny, Vice President for humanitarian policy and practice at interaction, an alliance of u. S. Based relief and development organizations. And, joel, lets stipulate from the getgo that anybody who continues to give out doses after these killings is just tremendously brave. Exactly. Suarez but does this have the potential for curtailing or stopping a program that had a disease on the run . Well, i think absolutely. I mean the you heard that eluentomanlead basically saying were risking our lives for this, this is something thats for the future of our children. But at some point theyll be unable to continue if the violence and the violent Threats Force them both them and the Health Organizations that are working on this to curtail the programs. Suarez the Vaccination Program in pakistan already was under suspicion by the taliban. But did the United States complicate things in pakistan . And how . Weidn help because i think as Many Americans know as part of the operation to identify osama bin ladens whereabouts, the c. I. A. Put together what youd have to call a bogus Vaccination Campaign to try and identify bin ladens whereabouts. This became widely known. The doctor who was a part of it ended up being sentenced to 30 years in jail. But there you have the manipulation of a pure humanitarian program for political and counterterror ends and this was very controversial across all of Pakistani Society that especially strikes at the militants in the sense, well, here is another example of how these sort of western programs are striking at our interests and it undermines the credibility of what should be a basic health intervention. Suarez and complicated the plea from any subsequent n. G. O. That theyre neutral and not affiliated with the gernment. A attpt toake that case theres going to be a bit of suspicion on the part at least of the militant groups. I think theres a commitment from the pakistani government to make these programs work up to the highest level but in these deep rural areas where people are so far away from the center and theres such a low level of education and so on the ability i mean we handed a propaganda tool to groups that want to undermine these programs. Suarez apart from this, looking across the world where these programs are going on are attacks against aid workers rising . Is this making the work more difficult to do . It is. Theres a new report out just this week that says in 2011 security incidents, both killing and wounded amounted to 305 in 2011. Now, that doesnt sound like a huge number but ive been in this work long enough to remember when that number would have been less than 20 or less than ten. Thers an erosion of our ability as a humanitarian community to work safely. And we have to examine we cant hunker down and end the work, but we have to find ways to continue to be effective but in the safest way that we possibly can. Suarez in the safest way you can. If you lay on more security, does that make it more difficult to be with the people youre trying to help . Well, yes, and the whole point of what we try to do precisely is be with the people both for kind of solidarity and empathy but also to be more effective so that we can see the impact, so that we can be side by side with people and, you know, the jargon turn now is bunkerization. We dont wt to be behind a bunker. If were behind a bunker, were not effective. But at the same time at what point do you ask people to die for the sake of a program or risk their lives for a program and the analysis, now, is basically if your ding something thats life saving its worth taking more of a risk than if youre doing an Ongoing Program and that may be able to manage itself or wouldnt hurt people so much if it were suspended. But this whole idea of how fundamentally important is this program to the lives of people its a question that we have to ask ourselves. Suarez the stateoftheart, im told by many in this community, is to use locals as much as possible. Theyre able to approach the people who they live among more easily, yet they may also understand the risks and be more reluctant to be parts of these programs, too. Well, they are more vulnerable. I mean, when i give that figure of 305 casualties in 2011, the majority of those were among local staff, local people, local workers so its, in fact, not a solution to say, well, were ing to ha eatrts o in some safe place and were going to have the local people taking the risk. Theyre willing to take the risk just as we may be but theyre equally subject. In other words, the fact that theyre from the community doesnt necessarily make them safer. Suarez does this send a shill . This incident in pakistan, through a much wider set of relationships . I think so, absolutely. And it just theres just a it just fundamentally wrong to see a 17yearold womanr a 20yrold woman or a 30yearold woman be killed for vaccinate ago child. I mean, i find that very chilling. And its not that, okay, so now were going to just lang it up everywhere, but the idea that this can happen in a country like pakistan is very disturbing. Suarez joel charny, thanks for joining us. Thank you. Brown yesterday saw the release of a highly critical review board report. Today, the state department and benghazi re bk in the spotlight, as secretary of state Hilary Clintons deputies appeared before senate and House Committees. Congressional correspondent kwame holman reports. The hearing will come to order. Reporter the Senate Foreign Relations Committee went first in a long day of hearings on the attack in benghazi. Committee chair john kerry clearly, mistakes were made. The report makes that very clear. And one of the most candid and important observations was the failure by certain leaders to see the forest through the trees. There were clear warning signs that the security situation in libya had deteriorated. Reporter that report by an outside review board blamed systemic management failings at the state department that led to grossly Inadequate Security at the u. S. Mission in benghazi. U. S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other americans lost their lives in the attack on september 11. Today, republican Richard Lugar said at a minimum, american diplomats never should fear for their lives. Just as we give our men and women in uniform the weapons they need to carry out their mission, we must make sure our diplomats have all the tools they need, which include a safe place to work. Reporter secretary of state Hillary Clinton has been ailing, and did not testify today. In her stead, deputy secretaries William Burns and thomas nides acknowledged the department learned very hard and painful lessons in benghazi. We have to do better. We owe it to our colleagues who lost their lives in benghazi. We owe it to the Security Professionals who acted with such extraordinary heroism that awful night to try to protect them, a we owe it to thousands of our colleagues serving america with a great dedication every day in diplomatic posts around the world. Reporter democrats have charged congress bears some of the blame for benghazi, for cutting funding for diplomatic security. Californias Barbara Boxer we need to get our priorities straight around here. And we cant walk away and invite another. Another tragedy. And as much as people like to say, well, its not the money, its the money. You cant. You cant protect a facility without the funding. Reporter but republicans asked why, in the case of benghazi, the state department did not shift funds or ask for emergency money. Bob corker of tennessee minced no words in his assessment. What i saw in the report is a department that has sclerosis. That doesnt think outside the box. That is not using the resources that it has in any kind of creative ways. Is not prioritizing. I cannot imagine sending folks out to benghazi after what we saw from the security cameras and the drones. Reporter deputy secretary burns said the answer, in part, is that despite growing lawlessness in benghazi, in his words, we made the mistaken assumption that we wouldnt become a major target. The truth is, across eastern there had been a tendency not just in the case of eastern libya, but i think across the world in recent years for us to focus too much on specific credible threats, and sometimes and, i think thats something that, you know, we were painfully reminded of in the case of the benghazi attack, and we need to do better at. Reporter to that end, deputy secretary nides promised swift action on all of the reports 29 recommendations. Implementation of each and every recommendation will be underway by the time the next secretary of state takes office. There will be no higher priority for the department in the coming weeks and months. Reporter the afternoon brought deputy secretaries burns and nides before a new audience the House Committee on foreign affairs. The questions there were decidedly more challenging, as republicans quickly turned to u. N. Ambassador susan rice and her muchdiscussed statement five days after the attack in benghazi. What this began as was a spontaneous, t a premeditated response to what had transpired in cairo. Reporter Congressional Republicans criticized rice for not immediately calling the assault a terrorist attack. Even though, at the time, u. S. Intelligence officials already believed it was. It turned out that u. S. Intelligence officials already knew the incident was a terrorist attack. The Obama Administration has said rice was simply following unclassified talking points shed been given. But today, Committee Chair Ileana Roslehtinen of florida said that defense raises a list of other questions. When did the inaccurate spontaneous protest narrative originate . Where did it originate . And why was that story deemed more fit for publication than the accurate terrorism evidence . And if ambassador rice had little direct knowledge of the facts on the ground in benghazi why was she selected by the administration to be the spokesperson on this subject . Reporter deputy secretary burns answered with a defense of how the administration responded. What happened in benghazi on september 11th was clearly a terrorist attack. Secretary clinton addressed that directly the following morning in her first Public Statement when she talked about an assault by heavily armed militants on our compound. Later that same day president obama talked of an act of terror. Im confident that the Senior Administration officials who spoke to this issue and the Intelligence Committee experts on whom they relied acted in good faith throughout this period. Their focus was on trying to be reporter republican Dana Rohrabacher of california shot back that the administration is in effect trying to rewrite history. Im sorry mister ambassador but your statement that the president and secretary inton made clear that it was a terrorist attack right afterwards is not true. Its not accurate. I mean the president and high level officials of this administration immediately after the attack and for days afterwards kept talking an overwhelming part of their discussion dealt with movie rage about muslims being upset about portraying mohamed in a bad way in some movie on youtube. Reporter democrats dismissed the focus on rices remarks. Gary ackerman of new york said congress has become a partisan bickering bunch of grousing old people. Trying to quibble around here on this particular issue of the narrative rather than how we Work Together to make things better to quibble over somebody said a particular word or didnt use the right word, rather than figure out how to avoid the mistakes that might have been to not lose american lives on into the future. Reporter amid the furor, ambassador rice has withdrawn herself for consideration as secretary of state. And four state Department Security officials resigned on wednesday. Suarez retailers are hoping to finish the Holiday Shopping season strong, particularly given some forecasts warning of a slowing economy in 2013. As we reported earlier, Consumer Spending helped spike better growth this fall. But in light of the last recession, some are asking whether less personal debt and perhaps some more austerity might be a better approach. Newshour economics correspondent paul solman has been exploring that question. Part of his ongoing reporting on making sense of financial news. The economy is just terrible. Im really worried about our future honey. Im spending just as fast as i can to stimulate the economy. Uh oh, i just maxed out my credit card. Here, use mine. The economy can use all the spending it can get. Stop right there. Reporter just in time for the holidays, a new video from the folks who created the keyneshayek rap which weve featured in the past. This may look like a keynesian christmas carol, pushing consumption to boost the economy, as english economist John Maynard Keynes long ago advised. If you want a recovery buy toys, mountains of toys. Reporter in fact, it pitches the exact opposite saving as the path to prosperity, as sung by keynes conservative rival, friedrick hayek. Delayinconsptioof goods today, a better tomorrow we pave if growing prosperity is our goal the best thing we can do is save. Reporter in real life, hayeks austrian austerity is much in vogue these days spending is suspect, especially if it means going into debt; savings are our salvation, because they will be invested, the argument goes, and will thus propel the economy. To which rutgers economic historian James Livingston says, bah, humbug. Such scroogelike logic belongs mainly to christmas past. For 100 years now, growth has been driven by consumption. So to say that we need to increase productivity by more savings and more investment is to violate, it seems to me, the historical evidence. Reporter in fact, livingston says, Consumer Spending represents some 70 of all economic activity, and it is thus the key to commerce. At new yorks Grand Central terminal, the holiday fair where the vendors corroborated the economist. You cant grow an economy without, you know, good consumerism, you know . As an immigrant from the former soviet union, anastasia gonye has lived the alternative. I stood in line for bread, so there was not enough of things that are necessary to survive, you know, i had to make things for myself thats how i started, how i learned that skill, because i had to make clothes myself, if i wanted to look halfway decent. So, its different. Reporter but this is better . Of course its better. Way better. Reporter now, the soviet planned economy grew out of the communist revolution of 1917. But in the us back then, the market reigned, channeling wealth to its most productive uses. The new infomercial thinks that that should still the model. Increasing productivity needs more savings and investment, the true engine of economigrowth. Now, hear Friedrich Hayek sing a song of savings. Your savings are borrowed by businessmen, productions structure is changed. They invest in workers and capital goods. Our economy rearranged. Reporter but in a recent book, against thrift, livingston shows that private investment, as a percentage of the economy, has actually been dropping, steadily, since the 1920s. I wouldnt say that we dont need private investment at all, but we have to acknowledge that. Private investment does not drive growth. Reporter but the new drug that requires all this money for clinical trials; what ive got in my pocket this amazing device that doesnt require investment . Most of those clinical trials, most of that kind of investment, is a publicprivate partnership. What youre holding in your hand, it seems to me, is a that is, government spending, public spending, has driven the research and development that allow for the development of this smartphone. We should acknowledge that. Its created jobs and its created growth as well. Reporter yet, says livingston, we scorn government and glorify the private sector, extolling productivity and hard work. Yet we live in a country where productivity makes work hard, all right, hard to come by. We can develop all kinds of technologies. If theres not sufficient consumer demand to buy the goods, then what . Then what happens . Then we have stagnation; we have economic crisis, which is what weve got on our hands now. Reporter but were borrowing more in order to spend. Isnt borrowing a problem . Whos we . Consumers . Orhe governmt . Reporter the government. Okay. The government is borrowing more and more. Why . Because theres not enough growth, right . Theres not enough taxes coming into the coffers, so it has to borrow more. If we can reinstate growth, and everybody agrees on this, if we can reinstate growth, were going to be fine, fiscally speaking. The question is how to reinstate growth . If you believe hayek, it means more saving, more investment. If you believe me, along with keynes and a few others, no thats not what we need. Reporter we need to spend more. We need to spend more and thats why were here. Reporter but consumer stimulus isnt the only reason livingston pits himself against thrift. He also thinks buying something is liberating. Its the idea of freedom that stands behind it. What can i do with this thing, what can i do with this good . Thats what people buy things for. Or, theyre buying gifts to cement social bonds and create an emotional climate. Reporter so you think of shopping as a form of self actualization . Yes shopping, consuming, that is at least as self actualizing as producing or working, yes. Reporter Retail Therapy in theory and, here, in practice. Do you get genuine pleasure, joy, out of shopping, or do you feel guilty because its consumerism . Oh no. Enjoy she definitely enjoys it. I do as well. I definitely enjoy it. What do you enjoy . because i buy some present for the rest of my family, my girls, and make me happy when i get something new. Reporter the sellers often seemed as selfactualized as the buyers. Elissa ehlin makes copper and enamel jewelry with her husband jay. I do not sell online. I do not sell in stores. I sell my work in person, through museum shows and fine art and craft shows. Reporter how important a part of your business is that or are you just an artist . No. the actual interaction with the person who is buying a piece of work from jay and i you cant even put a price on it. This is creating social bonds, right . Its about creating an emotional climate. Its not about the exchange of goods only, right . To me, thats what consumer culture is about. Reporter to many if not reporter to many if not most americans, though, this is what its about at least come the holidays. And this is what it looks like yearround. Verizon ads popping up all over the place. Baileys irish cream whiskey. i mean, its advertisers who are trying to manipulate us, to make us buy now, to think we want something that well later be unhappy with. That isnt all true . I think its actually mostly untrue. Most consumers know perfectly well whats going on with advertising. They realize that what theyre buyig when they Pay Attention to advertising is not the thing itself; its the idea of freedom that goes with the thing. Consumers are very, very savvy in that respect. Reporter you sound like my marketing professor at Harvard Business school in 1976. Literally. Thats what he said its not the product youre buying; its the aura of the product. Its the status that you think is being conferred on you by the product. You actually buy all that . Most definitely reporter but even if your answer is most definitely not, you might still buy livingstons keynesian prescription that when unemployment is high, consumption is the only antidote. On the other hand, you might instead be swayed by the anti spending, prosaving message of the libertarian christmas video. Its young protagonists certainly were amany aricans are these ys. If we save more today, we can have an even better holiday tomorrow. And maybe be able to pay for my College Tuition. Reporter who could disagree with that . James livingston. Theyre making a mistake, not only at the level of the family, but its also bad for the economy. Reporter we, of course, will take no sides. But we dont mind if you thank us, should you be splurging this season, for providing you with a possible excuse suarez online you can watch the entire economists Christmas Carols video. Thats on the business desk. Brown finally tonight, we continue our conversations with newly elected members of the senate. Heidi heitkamp, a 57 year old democrat, will be north dakotas first elected female senator. She served as attorney general in the 1990s and most recentl was a director at a Natural Gas Firm in her state. She defeated republican congressman rick berg by just under 3,000 votes and replaces retiring democrat kent conrad. She joins us from fargo. Senatorelect welcome and congratulations. Thank you so much. Brown it looks as though one of the first things you might face in office is what to do in the aftermath of the newtown shootings. You come from a strong secondamendment state. You yourself received an a ting from the n. A. Utou spoke of possible changes to our gun laws. What changes specifically can you support now . Well, i think we have to step back from all of this discussion and start really trying to examine what happened in connecticut and why it happened in connecticut. I also am a very staunch proponent of looking at our Mental Health system in this country and started a dressing those concerns as well. During the time that i was attorney general was also the time of columbine, there were a numbeof school shoongs. I served as a chair of a committee that we pulled together within the National Association of attorneys general to begin to discuss what we could change and im not willing to throw out one solution against other solutions. I think we need to understand this culture. I think we need to understand what happened. N this specific decision that this young man made to do one of the most horrific things that can be done in america and how were going to prevent that in the future. Im about results, actually about things that matter and things that can change the dynamic and we need to talk about everything. We need to talk not only about gun laws and xa needs to be examined there but Mental Health school security, Community Development that will provide hopefully some hope and help with parents who are struggling with children with mental illness. Brown accepting there can be many things on the table, i want to ask you about the gun control part of it. I wonder from a state like your what isould constuts cept . Theres talk of, of course, ban on assault weapons and certain kinds of magazines. How far would you be willing to carry that conversation right now . I think people in north dakota want to make sure that we do everything in the aftermath of this disaster to prevent it from happening again. Obviously were a strong Second Amendment state. We believe the interesting thing about north dakota we have the highestrate of g ownership in the country and the lowest rate of gun violence in the country. We understand and appreciate the concerns people have that we need to address but i think all of this talk is putting the cart before the horse when we havent had the discussion about what it is that has created this circumstance. And i spent a lot of years working in Law Enforcement and let me tell you, my approach to problems is that you examine what exactly happened before you begin to fashion some kind of solution to prevent it. Brownit was wildly thought your party would have a hard time holding on to kent conrads seat giving the states conservative tilt. You did it. You did in the part you were distancing yourself from the president certainly over some things like energy and the keystone pipeline, for example. A decision on that is a new decision on that is supposed to be coming any time now. Do you still think that it should go through . I think it should and it will i think once we take a look at what nebskagoi to decide and what the governor in nebraska is going to determine will be the appropriate path for the keystone in nebraska. I think youll see the last of the legal impediments. Its not just about keystone, however, its about a legitimate and Extensive National Energy Policy that includes every opportunity we can find. I get asked very often about clean coal. Obviously north dakota is a state thats very rich in oil reserves and natural gas reserves but we are also a coalbased state. We do a lot of coal generation, elerical generation from coal. The plant that you were talking about wasnt necessarily a natural gas plant that i was on the board of. I was on the board of a facility that takes coal, makes natural gas and we do something no one else does which is we compress our c. O. 2, send it north into canada where its injected into the oil fields up there so its the largest sequestration project in the world. Carbon sequestration project. So weve demonstrated in north dakota that we can be responsible with development of these resources. Were alsone of the lrgest producers of wind energy in the country. So this has to be a mix so where i disagree with the president has been on how we develop an Energy Policy that provides for Americas Energy needs into the future. Brown let me ask you about how you see your role now. Youre coming into a very divisive atmosphere. We started looking at the fiscal cliff negotiation orsulak thereof how do you see your role . How would you like to position yourself visavis your own party and the republican part i think when you look at senator conrad and what hes done in the past im very much in that vein. Kent is clearly a mentor for me so im looking at something that puts us on the path for fiscal responsibility. We borrow 40 cents of every dollar we spent in this country. The interest on the debt is our thirdlargest expenditure and our debt has exceeded our gross domestic product. That is unsustainable and i had to chuckle during that discussion about consumption that you had befre this hour cause it a little like that. You cannot consume your way out of this problem. You also have to take a look at legitimate investments yet, but we have to cut budgets, look at the revenue side, we have to do everything we can to put ourselves on the path of fiscal responsibility. If we dont we will fail as a country. Brown senator elect from north dakota heidi heitkamp, thanks again for joining us. Suarez again, the major developments of the day with talkstalled between president oba and Congressional Republicans, the house debated Speaker Boehners planb, for limited tax increases. At congressional hearings, top state Department Officials acknowledged major failings left the u. S. Consulate in benghazi, libya open to attack. And the first major storm of the season moved into the midwest, closing roads and grounding flights for thousands of holiday travelers. Online, the world in 2012 one click at a time. Hari sreenivasan has the story. Sreenivasan this year, art beat captured the world in photos from a cape madof spers silk in london to a 400yearold bonfire festival in see what amazing picture was captured in your neighborhood with our interactive map. And in a new series on our health page, dr. Howard markel, of the center for the history of medicine, will highlight eureka moments that have shaped modern medicine. Todays post the worlds first xray. All that and more is on our website newshour. Pbs. Org. Suarez and again, to our honor roll of American Service personnel killed in the afghanistan conflict. We add them as their deaths are made official and photographs become available. Here, in silence, are ten more. Brown and thats the newshour for tonight. On friday, we talk to education secretary arne duncan about last Weeks Elementary School shootings. Plus well have the analysis of mark shields and michael gerson. Also tomorrow evening a special pbs broadcast called after newtown begins a National Dialogue about the issues raised by that tragedy. Its a collaboration of all our National News and science programs and will be hosted by our own gwen ifill. Check your local listings. Imeffrey brown. Suarez and im ray suarez well see you online and again here tomorrow evening. Thank you and good night. Major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by and the william and flora hewlett foundation, working to solve social and environmental problems at home and around the world. And with the ongoing support of these institutions and foundations. And. Th proam was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. And by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. Thank you. Captioning sponsored by Macneil Lehrer productions captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org