would be far easier and more likely. >> yeah, so i think in the first one, since they are looking at the straight obstruction charge rather than the conspiracy, it's a much higher threshold that trump oversaw a massive conspiracy that involved both the political elements and the violent extremist group evidence, and the justice department is, you know, going to have to weigh up the evidence and see if they can act on a referral. so the committee has to be very careful, and i think it's important to note that the committee according to our sources, at least, doesn't have evidence directly tieing trump to the violence at the moment. maybe it shows up. maybe it doesn't show up. that's obviously going to be the key question in any conspiracy referral. >> mike pence voluntarily showing up. if he agrees to do so, that's a big escalation, and we had chairman bennie thompson talking about that earlier. >> yeah, and pence knows more than anyone else about the pressure campaign he was