he will ultimately be responsible for very, very, very significant amounts of penalty when this case comes to fruition. now, you have to remember that donald and his dollars are synonymous. his only self-worth to himself, of course, is how much he claims to be worth. now, i also want to remind you that the attorney general's office is working in tandem with the district attorney's office, they are picking up that aspect. but what makes this case unusual is they are working together. so while -- while cy vance's case is criminal, and you have tish james's case is civil, they are working together and so the result in one will ultimately be the result in another, so he fears both equally. >> okay. when it comes to the chances of