Your message in and gets in line, its going to be delayed by anyone who puts in that tube, enormous amounts of material. We know that every Time Congress investigates the internet, were in for a good time. Is anyone on these committees charged with regulating the internet understand how any of this internet stuff work . Im not a nerd. Im not a nerd. Im not enough of a nerd. Maybe we ought the to ask some nerds what this thing actually does. I think maybe the word youre looking for is experts. The goal of todays hearing before the house energy and Commerce Committee was to get to the bottom of the massive failure of healthcare. Gov. And as one astute tweeter described it, imagine all of your grandparents interrogating a group of facebook product managers. So the American People can understand how complicated this is. This might help a little bit. You know, you cant recook eggs. I call them gaffes. Theyre much bigger than glitches, i believe. Glitches are little hiccups. Theres only so many passwords that i have the mental capacity to make up. You really start with one in delaware. Pardon me, sir . Did you really start out with one in delaware . Thats what i the liberal press is reporting. Im not familiar. Youre going into a restaurant and order two eggs over medium and the server brings you out two eggs scrambled, somebody loses. Texas republican joe barton, a member of the infamous suicide caucus, who shut down the government for 16 days to kill obama care, spent his time today grilling witnesses on 47 lines of code from the healthcare. Gov website related to Health Privacy rules known as hipaa. What that blue highlighted area thats been circled in red says is, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy regarding any communication or data transiting stored on this information system. And mr. Mrs. Campbell and mr. Salafa, you all both said you were hipaa compliant. How in the world can this be hipaa compliant . Turns out the code barton focused on is irrelevant. Tech journalist clay johnson noting, the whole thing doesnt matter. If its not displayed to the user, the user cant agree to it. Its not like apple can completely hide terms of service on itunes and still claim people accept the terms. But joe barton is less concerned with the facts than he is about destroying obama care. Once again here we have my republican colleagues trying to scare everybody will the gentleman yield . No, i will not yield to this monkey court or whatever this is this is not a monkey court. Do whatever you want. Instead of trying to actually get to the bottom of what was wrong with the website, the gop spent their time decrying a broken government they worked day and night to break. The botched rollout is all the more reason that the individual mandate penalty should be delayed. But this is not the first Time Congress has overseen the botched rollout of a big new health care program. In 2006, the house held hearings on the glitchridden Medicare Part d rollout under bush. Democrats worked with republicans to improve the program. I found the newsletter that i sent out to my constituents after Medicare Part d, in which i said, i oppose the law that created this program, but people need to be armed with the information requested. So imagine if the republicans who attended todays hearing, like, say, congressman tim murphy of pennsylvania given all these questions, congress should press pause on the it can surgeon and figure out what went wrong first before throwing good money after bad. Had the same attitude he did when george bush struggled to roll out Medicare Part d. Anytime something is new, theres going to be some glitches. No matter what one does in life, if its new while learning the ropes of it, its going to take a little adjustment. Joining me now, democrat sherrod brown, democrat of ohio. Do you feel like you were edified by todays house hearing . Are you confident that congress and capitol hill are going to get to the bottom of this and get it sorted out . Well, i dont think there was much interest in that hearing in getting to the bottom and sorting it out. Look, first of all, there is far too much contracting out in this government. You can look at nsa, you can look at iraq, the privatization of far too much of the armed forces. You know, from foodservice to soldiers and you can look at contracting out here. The fact is, the administration, of course, should have been better prepared, but the opponent to obama care, the ones that shut the government down to get rid of it are now saying delay, delay, delay it. Theyre of course going to try to do that. In fact, the issue is the president and the white house and hhs have got to fix this. Theyve got to make it work. A million seniors in my state have already benefited from free checkups and screenings. 100,000 young people have benefited by being on their Parents Health plan. Thousands of families have benefited already because theyre not denied coverage because of a childs preexisting conditions. I just spoke to the head of the biggest Medicare Company in the state, Medicaid Company in the state today. They are going to sign up at least 100,000 people, come january in the first few months of next year, that didnt have insurance before. This is going to work, were going to look back on this five years from now and wonder what the fight was about. Its just like medicare. There was opposition in the beginning and people become very satisfied with it over time. What did you think of congresswoman begets comparison to Medicare Part d. I remember interviewing you right after the Medicare Part d vote passed. You were in the house and i was profiling you at the time. And i believe you were opposed to that. And i imagine you turned around and worked with your constituents to make sure it worked. Yeah, congresswoman degette showed the kind of public official she is in colorado, that she didnt like the bill, i didnt like the bill. I still think it could have been done so differently and so much better, instead of the giveaway to drug and insurance interests, as the Bush Administration wrote it. But i also knew that my constituents could benefit from a law that could have been better, but was adequate for the needs of some of them and we keep improving it. And you know the Affordable Care act, as you know, chris, in my state, and in most states, on the average, it saved a senior that stands that enrolls in this medicare program, medicare drug program, it saved them about 800 additionally, because of what we did in the Affordable Care act. Thats another benefit thats come from this, as you know. And finally, senator, what is your reaction to the members of the house, the house of representatives, who are suing to block the Medicaid Expansion that republican Governor John Kasich has pushed there . I watched your interview last night. It was almost it was almost a painful mismatch to watch, chris. And connie, my wife and, Connie Schultz and i, were talking about it. But im just amazed by this. I was with a group of people called the chamber of the Cincinnati Chamber of Human Services today, a group of people that provide for people with less advantage in the community. And theyre just incredulous. As people i met yesterday in northwest ohio in brian were, that are taking care of patients with drug problems and mental illness. And theyre just incredulous that people would want to deny these hundreds of thousands of people insurance. I was at a Fast Food Restaurant in centerville, ohio, south of dayton today, talking to the workers. None of them had insurance. Theyre all making 9 and 10 an hour. Most of them will be eligible for medicaid. Theyre going to finally have insurance, their going to live longer as a result, and have better lives, period, as a result of that. Senator sherrod brown, thank you for your time. Lets turn to Olympia Snowe from maine. Senator, im curious your perspective on this Medicare Part d analogy. It seems quite germane to me insofar as a lot of democrats opposed it. But democrats, as it was passed, really did as legislators tried to fix the program, make sure it worked, communicate accurately to their constituents. Do you think we will see that from republican lawmakers as we go forward . Well, you know, i hope so, because in the final analysis, we have to make the law work. And that, obviously, is going to be the responsibility and the obligation of members of congress, as it is to conduct obviously this oversight, to get to the heart of the matter in terms of what was underlined the implementation of this program, because of the enormity of it. But i do recall Medicare Part d, because i worked on that initiative when i served in the Senate Finance committee. Yes, there were problems with it in the original rollout, but everybody worked to identify and to address the problems. And the same should be true in this instance in the final analysis. Whats your sense of where the Republican Party is on this, having just come through the kind of shutdown battle, having lost that. Are they still are the members of the Republican Party still focused on ending the law, on destroying the law, on gutting the law, or is there going to come a time where they just act as representatives, constituents who need help in signing up for the law or getting the kinks worked out or making the thing work . Well, its important, as a lawmaker, obviously, to respond to your constituents. And once a law becomes a law, you really do have, i think, an obligation to make it work. I cant obviously speak for our republicans and how they intend to move forward, but i do know this. That tying the strategy of delaying or defunding obama care was not the right strategy. Obviously, was not a winning strategy, and it certainly wasnt an achievable one. And whats more, what is bothersome as well, is that when one party adopts the tactic, unfortunately, the next, you know, in the next term, the other party could adopt a similar tactic. Depending on which position theyre in. Thats right. If the majority becomes the minority or vice versa, they each employ the others old tactics. And so we can see thissed a inainf inany night elm. So thats why we ought to bring the government to a shutdown and near default. I think its a sad state of affairs and it really was a megaoverreach in the financial analysis. Former senator, Olympia Snowe, thank you so much for your time tonight. Really appreciate it. Thank you, chris. Joining me at the table, clay shirky, author, professor, and expert on internet technologies. And clay, youve been incredibly critical. Yes, unsparingly critical of the rollout of healthcare. Gov. What has gotten you so frustrated watching this as someone whos a technologyist, written about it. Whats gotten me so frustrated is that there are a set of managerial mistakes, separate from the technology, separate from the challenge, that didnt have to happen. It looks to me like what the Obama Administration was doing was saying, we dont want to hand republicans hand grenades as we go along, if something messes up, if we have a mistake, if we have a glitch. And so they kept the whole thing under such tight wraps, but what they ended up doing in the end was hanging over a giftwrapped bomb of a much larger size. Your point is they werent testing early enough, and the reason they werent testing, and it must be such a bunker mentality inside there, precisely because of the reaction were seeing now, which is that if you Start Testing a product and there are glitches, youre going to get killed for it. But, of course, your argument is that they were so scared of that, what they ended up doing was delaying this necessary testing process. Right. In fact, one of the things that anyone who ships a Large Technology project recognizes that you have to get through a lot of failure to get to a working system. And its the process of failure and feedback that makes a system work. Thats exactly right. So what they did in a way, they saved up all the failure more after the public launch. Thats really important. And the real managerial failure, the thing that finally made me wloe my stack, as i did the other day, was recognizing that on october 1st, when obama was going to go out to the public to talk about healthcare. Gov, no one could pull him aside and say, hey, chief, play it down a little bit. Say were testing it in public, only try it if we this is a soft launch. We just had a soft launch of a site. Exactly, exactly. Instead, obama goes out and not only compares to it amazon. Com, which is insane, because amazon. Com is the greatest, you know, transactional tool ever shipped on the internet. So already, hes raising peoples hopes up. Then he issues this challenge. You dont have to take my word for it. Go take a look. The opposite of what he should be saying. And one of the things you had a very interesting interaction with the former chief Technology Officer of the obama for America Harper thats right, harper, and hes a famous guy on the internet, a real ninja coder. And youre basically saying, hey, man, you guys set up this incredible thing on the campaign, this could have been done right, and he was sort of replying back and i think theres a really interesting case study here about how government does big tech objects. And it struck me this is the first time that you have a government project dependent on shipping, a big, massive tech project. And well have to learn how to do this in the 21st century. In fact, what senator sherrod said earlier, which is the government needs to bring some of this in house, tim bray has also written a very interesting piece, saying, essentially, an increasing amount of government is going to be shipped via software. This is no longer something the government can buy on the open market. And there are certain capabilities, you know, building dams or building roads that have been moved inhouse, and that were sort of used to the government doing. This is something new. Thats whats so fascinating and worrying about this moment, were on the frontier of something new. Clay shirky of new york university, thank you very much. Thank you. Coming up no one spent more time trying to fix a broken immigration system than i am. I talked about it the day after the election and ive talked about it 100 times since. And yet today, while members of the house were talking about monkey courts and amorphous clouds, the president was putting Immigration Reform front and center. When we come back, ill explain why the boehner strategy on immigration spells doom for the Republican Party. We always love hearing from you on facebook and twitter. We know what republicans think about the healthcare the. Gov site. What do you think . Tonights question, if you could have spoken at the house hearing today, what would have said about the healthcare. Gov rollout . Tweet your answe answers allinwithchris or post at facebook. Com all in with chris. Ill share a couple at the end of the show, so stay tuned. Well be right back. It doesnt make sense to have 11 Million People who are in this country, illegally, without any incentive or any way for them to come out of the shadows, get right with the law, meet their responsibilities and permit their families then to move ahead. Its not smart, its not fair, it doesnt make sense. We have kicked this particular can down the road for too long. Fresh off having successfully stared down the Republican Party over a Government Shutdown and a default, the president today eagerly moved on to the next fight, the big, Unfinished Business of his second term, Immigration Reform. Reform that provides a path to citizenship for more than 11 million undocumented immigrants. The conventional wisdom is that its a fight that the president cant win because of opposition to a deal in the house driven by the tea party. But the contours of the immigration fight are strikingly similar to the contours of the shutdown fight that the president just won decisively. Indeed, perhaps the best way to think about Immigration Reform is as an opportunity to end a nightmarish shutdown of the basic legal rights of millions of people. It turns out john boehner could potentially end that shutdown tomorrow, if he would simply let the democratic process play out. Back in june, with mitt romneys 44point loss among latinos, still fresh in their mind, republicans helped pass a bipartisan, immigration overhaul in the senate that included a pathway to citizenship. Boehner has refused to allow that bill to come to a vote in the house, saying republicans prefer a piecemeal approach to Immigration Reform, but hes not providing a lot of details. I still think Immigration Reform is an important subject that needs to be addressed and im hopeful. The easiest way to address Immigration Reform, of course, would simply let the house vote on the senate bill. And that isnt a pointless exercise. Earlier this month, 184 House Democrats signed on to an Immigration Reform bill, similar to the senate bill. Meanwhile, the group, americas voice, is counting 28 House Republicans who have offered support for a path to citizenship. Tha