which lasted about 15 or 20 minutes, he said that, you know, representatives from the state department, including voelker and mr. saundland said they pressed him to continue to talk to the ukraines. we pressed him again. he said, i won't tell you what they said. we asked him if secretary of state mike pompeo knew what he was up to in ukraine to which he says, you know, i don't know for sure but i can only imagine that he did know. so -- >> that's interesting. >> yeah. and he continued to sort of lay out to us that the state department, including voelker and saundland told him what else could be done in ukraine in the future whether it was relations with ukraine or work with biden and he would not answer very specific questions about exactly what was relayed in some of those conversations today. >> well, there is a huge trail