slates of electors to congress under similarly false pretenses, that the entire time he was advised repeatedly by people in his campaign, people in the white house staff, that the underlying facts of the alleged fraud were not facts at all, they were dead wrong. and there was nothing wrong with the election result that he was trying to overturn. and i think that is the important, some respects, of that december 18th, 2020 meeting that you are talking about a few minutes ago. >> so, paul, if jack smith can prove that donald trump's lawyers knew that they were pushing bogus fraud claims, what kind of repercussions could they be up against? >> some lawyers have already faced repercussions from the bar, they have been censured by federal judges, including sydney powell. we know that donald trump uses lawyers as henchmen to try to get them to do his dirty work while insulating himself from any criminal exposure. but judges and prosecutors are in on that. so, when these lawyers get