dots, to not be curious, if you are a foreign policy decisionmaker in this white house, not to be curious about whether that is interfacing with policy decisions. i think, you know, it begs a lot of questions they're facing right now in pence's orbit. >> and at the same time there's also reporting in "the washington post" that his national security adviser, pence's, was on that call, as was, we now know, pompeo. so clearly he would have been briefed, it would have been in the presidential daily brief the next day, there would have been a lot of readouts he would have gotten. their defense is he didn't know what was going on or didn't read his briefing materials as he was going to a meeting with zelensky in warsaw. kurt volker, envoy to ukraine, the first key witness, he resigned from the state department on friday nate, he's on the hill now apparently testifying. geoff bennett, what do we know about this, when did he go in