as a young google employee he thought that he had to emulate whiteness to be successful. he changed his wardrobe and showed up alone to parties, to invite intimidating white peers with the presence of his black friends. but sanders says that this stunted his growth, professionally and personally. he found that when he embraced was, doors actually began to open up for. him joining us once more's chance honors, offers a black magic, with black leaders learn from trauma and trial. let's start out it's great to have you, back i've been waiting to have this interview with you for a long, time so i'm finally glad we managed to make it happen. talk me a little bit that title, what do you mean by black magic? >> he man my brother, i appreciate you having me here. i mean everything that we learned, through the course that is surviving black miss, everything from code switching, to resourcefulness, to navigating sticky situations. just survival tactics frankly. that are necessary in this