consider him for another term. i think that's an interesting piece in all of this, how should voters consider him for another term. so the question becomes -- and i will put it back to you, if you're framing this question as a journalist and you're covering the story, how do you frame it. >> lies and slander. >> so if you frame it as lies, and i'm out here sort of as ali vitali mentioned in earlier conversations, voters are just starting to turn and this may be the first time looking at this, et cetera, et cetera. what do they hear up against your framing of this as lies? so that's always that problem space for us, for those of us in the democracy space, and journalism, politics, who are trying to course correct trumpism and trump is you always got that lagging indicator with voters. and they're coming into it late,