about what he was doing. he said he didn't know of any investigation. if hill pins a lot on rudy juliani, what position does that leave him in? >> you have the president publicly saying things that distance himself from michael cohen. we're looking at footage there and we know they had lunch together. giuliani would be harder to throw under the bus than some of the others. they have a long relationship. coming from back in new york, giuliani has done things for the campaign and now for allegedly u.s. foreign policy. and giuliani is in the thick of this campaign plot. as far as we could tell that seemed to be basically true.