See how that works . Morning joe, Chuck Schumer was unimpressed. They are compromise because they are not eliminating it but delaying. Were compromising, instead of chopping off one arm, well chop off both arms. Arent we great. All eyes on Speaker Boehner. In two hours they will reconvene, once again strip out obama care language and send boehner another clean spending bill. The man with the greatest power to avoid a Government Shutdown by putting a clean cr on the floor and letting it pass also has the most to lose by doing so. This morning the beleaguered speaker took to the floor to urge the senate to pass the house bill. The American People are worried about their job. They are worried about their incomes rising because they are all under pressure. Worried about losing your job, feeling under pressure. Sound like anybody you know . Joining me today, politics editor at Business Insider josh barrow, executive editor at msnbc. Com richard wolffe, and also joining us is nbc capitol hill correspondent luke russert. Luke, this feels like were all sort of getting a peek inside an insane asylum. Seems simple. John boehner could walk out, put a clean cr on the floor and it will pass. What is the likelihood he will simply do that . Its an interesting question, joy. As of right now, i would say unlikely today from where we stand. I will give you the three options boehner has now, the thinking. The house has a meeting at 2 00 p. M. Today. They are going to discuss what their next move is going to be. Here are the three options. Number one, once the senate kills the house bill and sent back over here attach some other conservative goody that goes after the health care law. This case something similar to the bitter amendment, strip government payins to employees on the hill for Health Care Access and Health Care Premium payments. If you do that, the thinking on the republican side is they can say, look, harry reid is trying to save his own health care ahead of that of the American People. So thats the one thing we can see. However, if you do that, you push more towards shutdown because of the timing and how everything works up here. Number two, boehner could possibly have a twoor threeweek continuing resolution, not all the way to december which would mix this into the debt limit which he could argue strengthens the gop hand, put it all on the debt limit, a place we have a stronger position. Brace for shutdown, he lets the cruz caucus as i call it of his House Republican caucus feel the effects, lose the pr and comes back and passes a temporary two or three weeks or do a clean one. From where we stand right now, its unlikely boehner would go to the floor with a clean cr. They only need 17, 20 republicans. From my conversation with members and unofficial whip count, i believe they could get that. Theres enough moderates, charlie dent, king, nunez from california who would be more than willing to move on this issue. But they adopt want to give up this fight quite yet. After the 2 00 p. M. Meeting, i suspect well hear about something new related to the president S Health Care law they are going to send back over to the senate and put it back on harry reid again. Playing hot potatoes. Grand context, its absolutely fascinating, yesterday, the day before this horrific shutdown on the horizon, not one meeting between boehner, reed, president obama. Democrats are really, really, really not going to throw boehner a life raft this time saying you want to shut it down. Its the west wing episode, shut it down. Go right ahead. They are playing hardball. Richard wolffe, go ahead and make my day. Thats what were hearing from democrats is what luke is saying. The options, throw your staff under the bus. Basically slash the staffs pay, throwing them in the exchanges. Detonate it, put a nuclear bomb marrying these two together. Or let a shutdown happen thinking the same republicans that didnt learn from our Credit Rating being downgraded will think after a few weeks of regular people feeling pain, oh, this isnt good. Luke is a good reporter and all three options are real. What happens if all three happen. You send up ridiculous talking point. Youre not opposing people anymore. Youre opposing for talking point purposes. They do that and they have something that kicks it into the debt ceiling and on top of that they shut down the government. So all three could actually all happen. Were at this point where republicans this isnt, by the way, the Tea Party Caucus. The Tea Party Caucus is too small to do this. Its the fear of the Tea Party Caucus. We dont even have a body the majority could get this through if they wanted. Not just the moderates. They are so scared of their own shadow and shadow of the tea party they are going down this ridiculous path which shows honestly they dont have strategy. Its a bunch of shortterm tactics that dont last 12 hours anymore. Calls him the suicide caulk, not even Tea Party Caucus. Let me give you a quick bite of what he has to say. 80 house members. The suicide caucus members, we can show a map of where they live, suicide caucus members live in places where National Election results seem like an anomaly. Obama defeated romney 4 points nationally. 80 suicide districts obama lost by an average of 23 points. Those 80 members represent an america where the population is getting whiter, there are few major cities, where obama lost the last election on a landslide and Republican Party more dominant and more popular. If you look physically where the suicide caucus members are, look at that map, these are the people in the south, great northwest, they are in red, red america where this actually seems rational. Right. I think, you know, one great quote we heard from an anonymous republican staffer, by the way the anonymous republican staffer is the star of this. They stand to lose their health care under the bitter plan. They understand what they are doing is nuts, nuts for the country, nuts for the Republican Party, i assume they are drinking a lot this week. I would be if i were up there. One of these quotes House Republicans are going to have to touch the stove a little longer to figure out they are going to get burned. These 80 people probably arent going to feel burned but 280 people in the House Republican caucus, a majority of whom wanted to use a strategy similar to the one john boehner originally had where you would have another symbolic vote to defund obama care, allow them to stay funded allow implementation to continue and only grandstand on the issue. I think thats where republicans are trying to end up here. The question is how many days of shutdown it will take to convince the Republican Caucus that this thing has been a destructive misadventure for the party. My guess is the shutdown will run a week. They will figure it out then pt republicans learned a lesson from 2011. Remember we raised the debt ceiling in january. Republicans in december were talking a game about more concessions, budget cuts. Ultimately the january debt ceiling increase was essentially a clean increase. The only thing republicans got was that Senate Democrats had to pass a totally symbolic budget, which is really not much of a concession at all. I think House Republicans are able to see reason on this stuff as they did in january. The question is how much Government Shutdown it will take. Shng has changed since then. Whats that . Ted cruz. 2016 that changed it. You can see this again with the anonymous house staffer. They understand how ted cruz has changed the National Dynamic for primaries. And hurt the party in terms of the image of the party being rational and sane. The other thing ted cruz doesnt answer to those people youre talking about. I want to go back to luke. Is josh cret there are republicans that see reason, like josh said, a week or two of shutdown, which, by the way, real people will be hurt. A week or two, a majority of republicans say enough already. Enough ted cruz. Were just going to go ahead and pass a clean cr. Yes, i believe that. If youre talking about a clean cr, they could do that in an hour if they wanted to, joy. Thats not the issue here. The issue here is the gop leadership once again is very worried about alienating this particular wing. The folks i call the coal caucus, 85 voted for fiscal cliff dealing, of those 85 or so, 75 are still around here. If you went and talked to them priva privately, they would say this is a dumb thing going forward, not worth it. I suspect that group of House Republicans would support a clean cr. As richard just mentioned, these guys arent calling the shots. Ted cruz, heritage action, Senate Conservative fund is calling the shots, club for growth is calling the shots. 94 members that come from romneys 60 plus distribution they dont want to be they are willing to go along with this idea that has been born out of this 30 or so guys in the House Republican caucus that even a few years ago were laughed out of the room by establishment votes. Youre seeing the fight for the house gop. They are now taking the country into this fight. All the folks in the dmv area, largest concentration of federal workers, a lot of folks hurt by a possible shutdown. But you kind of sit here dumbfounded and say why doesnt someone rise up, go with a clean cr . They are fearful of all the energy in their party, going against them come 2014, come 2016. Its not something they want to engage in right now. Its absolutely fascinating. Richard, isnt that the point . The real thing is not so much the rise of ted cruz but the rise of jim demint these outside funders can Trump Chamber of commerce, old wall street guys who used to be able to push them or muscle them around on capitol hill. They are responding to a stream of outside money that they are afraid could make them lose their jobs. We havent seen the Business Community step up. The gop leadership is afraid of this caucus. Having a fearful leadership is not actually leadership. The truth is when the white house is using the language of hostage takers. They have to understand gop leaders themselves are a hostage. Hostage takers are hostages themselves and thats a lack of leadership all the way around. Josh, the other issue is youre not seeing republicans fighting on the ground of we want more austerity or something to do with the budget. Look at the list of demands when you move to the debt limit. Talking about delay health care law, undo greenhouse gas, keystone pipeline, eliminate social service grants, eliminate dodd frank financial reform. Now this is basically things they couldnt win in an election. They want to stuff them into a fight thats supposed to be about the economy and budget. I think they are doing this for two reasons. One, republicans have gotten fiscal austerity over the last few years including big cuts from sequestration we thought nobody wanted a few years ago. If you want more budget cuts you start having to cut programs republicans dont want to go on the record they want to cut. No cpi and Social Security. They dont want to go back to their districts and say were demanding a cut in Social Security benefits. Have you to come up with other sweeteners to explain to conservative republicans why they should vote for an increase in the debt limit. The other thing is this need to do the kitchen sink, House Republicans dont want to vote for a debt limit increase. One who might not be swayed by fiscal austerity, you say, hey, you hate dodd frank . Well weaken dodd frank because of this. Its desperate gambit. Republicans dont have a vote for debt limit increase with this laundry list attached to it. Thats why house leadership floated the plan. They never actually put out a bill. They didnt think they could get to 218 even with this insane list of demands. This is insane. The only thing not in there and well see it again is deport president obama. Thats not on the list yet and i guess we should be thankful. Luke russert, thank you very much. Midnight is not only the Witching Hour for Government Shutdown, marks a rollout for obama care. Well preview crucial and busy october 1st when the white houses Jennifer Palmieri joins us next on now. My customers can shop around see who does good work and compare costs. It doesnt usually work that way with health care. But with unitedhealthcare, i get information on quality rated doctors, Treatment Options and estimates for how much ill pay. That helps me, and my guys, make better decisions. I dont like guesses with my business, and definitely not with our health. Innovations that work for you. Thats health in numbers. Unitedhealthcare. Cheryl burke is chachaing in depend silhouette briefs for charity, to prove that with soft fabric and waistband, the best protection looks, fits, and feels just like underwear. Get a free sample and try for yourself. Wout of landfills each year . Plastic waste to cover mt. Rainier by using one less trash bag each month, we can. And glad forceflex bags stretch until theyre full. So you can take them out less often. One more time, just for themselves. Before the last grandchild. Before the first grandchild. Smile. Before katie, debbie, kevin and brad. There was a connection that started it all and made the future the wonderful thing it turned out to be. At bank of america, we know were not the center of your life, but well do our best to help you connect to what is. As the two chambers of commerce fight to the finish over budget negotiations over the next 12 hours, the white house is preparing for a shutdown. Yesterday former president bill clinton, who was president during the last Government Shutdown 17 years ago had some words of advice and praise for president obama. The president has to take the position hes taken, which is you, not me, you voted to spend this money. America is one of maybe the only country in the world that requires two votes to spend money. First they vote to spend the money. Then they have to vote again to issue the bonds to in effect borrow the money from the American People to cover the spending they have already voted for. You cant negotiate over that, and i think hes right not to. Can you remember a time in your lifetime when a Major Political party was just sitting around begging for america to fail . I dont know whats going to happen. Joining us now is White House Communications director Jennifer Palmieri. Jennifer, thanks so much to be here. Happy to be here, joy. Im interested in the substance. On the substantive side there have not been negotiations directly between the president and Speaker Boehner and the counterparts in the senate. On a tactical level, is the white house deciding they are not going to talk to them, period, but on the optics they dont even want to be seen to be negotiating with the republicans . The substance of the matter is that there really is not that much to negotiate around. People should remember that what were actually talking about is just a twomonth a bill that will fund the government for two months and do so at the level it is currently doing. This is not as if other times weve encountered dramatic showdowns its been around the fiscal cliff we did earlier this year, trying to save middle class tax cuts. At another point we were trying to put together a big deficit reduction package. But really, keep in mind, all were doing here is a twomonth continuing resolution at current levels. Theres really not that much to negotiate on. Its clear that, you know, a lot of House Republicans have said if you put took a clean bill like that and put it on the house floor, it would pass with 218 votes and thats what we should do. Its not as if were not willing to negotiate and talk about broader fiscal issues. We have and wanted to do that for a long time. Theres not that much to negotiate around. Were just talking about two months of the current levels and not willing to pay some sort of toll or have the republicans extract a price for doing their job. Jennifer, i think its an important point people forget. This is literally twomonth funding of the government. Normally sometimes you dont take a vote on this. It would pass by sometimes votes could pass by voice vote. This is not a year long thing. This is two months to keep us going while we try to work out a broader deal. We would like to deal with the sequester, for example. Thats why were not willing to this is why we certainly arent willing to accept anything that would defund or delay health care, but why the congress should pass a clean bill. Jennifer, is also the reason for not wanting to negotiate paved on this twomonth cr, not wanting to set a precedent. We read things about being concerned about precedent, not just himself but future president s, every time the congress has to look at funding the government, whether two months or two years there has to be a price extracted from the white house. Well, we think that particularly if you bring the debt limit into this, very concerned about precedent for a president having to accept to accept some sort of People Holding us hostage to passing what has been heretofore Standard Practice for the congress. So it is its you know, were happy to negotiate around a broad budget and fiscal issues and t