republicans are playing a dangerous game of chicken with the economy. this week, by just two votes, speaker mccarthy squeak through a bill to raise the debt ceiling so that the united states can continue to pay its bills. but there are conditions. the so-called limit save grow act bill, whatever, we lift the federal barring limit by one point trillion dollars or through march 31st 2024, whichever comes first, but it would also cut federal discretionary spending, kill biden's student debt cancellation plan, add the work requirements for adult medicaid recipients, the list goes on. president biden says it is a nonstarter that he will veto anything but a clean debt ceiling bill, free from all spending cuts. besides, top of spending cuts should be part of regular budget negotiations. president biden issued his budget last month. where is your budget kevin? but i digress. it is not just democrats ringing the alarm about the need to raise the debt ceiling. according to the washington post, a small group of conservative budget experts is cautioning house republicans that brings mission over the nation's boring limit could lead to economic disaster. the united states has never defaulted on its debt and for good reason. according to a 2020 and analysis from rudy's, it could cost the nine states up to 6 million jobs and 15 trillion in household wealth. joining me now, congressman joe neguse, chair of the democratic policy communication to me, congressman, welcome back to the sunday show. >> good to be with you, jonathan. so, raising the debt ceiling is supposed to be a rudimentary process. the effects of the cuts in this bill could force families and whole economy into a depression. what is at stake if congress and the president don't come to some agreement on this? >> first and foremost, jonathan, i think the way that you characterize house republicans defaulting on america-able is correct. it is important to consider how we got here in the first place. the hypocrisy shown by my colleagues on the other side of the aisle is both compounding and stunning. as you know, and as many of your viewers are aware, house republicans approved a debt ceiling increase multiple times during the course of the trump administration. everyone collectively recognizing that america has to pay bills. the full faith and credit of the united states should never be put at risk. what has changed? clearly this is pure politics at its worst. it is unfortunate because my colleagues have now decided to literally and infect take the american economy hostage by threatening this catastrophic default which would have staggering consequences for the american people. unemployment rising, millions of jobs potentially lost. stock market potentially crashing, cost rising for every one on everything. and then of course they presented this false choice of either choosing to engage in this catastrophic default or enacting the default on american act, the legislation that you referenced that they passed earlier this week. that would impose staggering and draconian cuts on the american people. you think about the hundreds of thousands of americans who would lose their health care, millions of americans kicked out of their homes. ripping away food assistance, potentially cutting veterans benefits. the list goes on and on. as you said, this is a dangerous game. it has become -- i hope that cooler heads will prevail and the house republicans will ultimately do what is necessary, get serious and let's move forward in ensuring our economy remains a staple. >> do your point about the republicans doing what is necessary, i'm just wondering, is the speaker moving on his own budget or is this debt ceiling bill meant to be the stand-in? >> it is a great question. as you know, the president outlined his budget proposal which would reduce the deficit, by the way as you know, by three trillion dollars over the course of the next decade. it is a reasonable budget, the house republicans unfortunately have not presented a budget which they are required to do under a statute. i suppose one could argue that this is somehow a proxy for that document if that is the case, then the american people should be deeply concerned. for the reasons that we've discussed, the devastating draconian cuts that would harm every day americans. at the end of day, the american people recognize that what speaker mccarthy has put forward in terms of the default on america act is not a budget. it is a ransom note. it is an effort to essentially impose a four right extreme vision for the american economy on the american people. president biden's right to reject it. at the end of the day, i think house republicans should do what they have done previously. when president trump was president. that is increase the gas ceiling and ultimately commit to ensuring that america pays bills, irrespective of who might be the white house. >> so congressman, we've had less than a minute left and i hear you on all of this. you and i are in agreement in this. and yet, there is a hostage that has been taken. at what point, at what point do you think the president and mccarthy will come to the negotiating table and talk about this. >> it is a fair question, i think the president has been clear that he is happy to sit down and negotiate and discuss the fiscal health of the country. that is a discussion that should be separate and apart from the question as to whether not we are going to pay our bills and ultimately ensure that the full faith and credit of the united states is not put at risk. as you know, jonathan, having covered these issues for so long, a normal, regular order process for considering appropriation bills. that is on going. that is the venue, vehicle for which we should have discussions about the budget for years days going into next fiscal year. that is very different than the debt ceiling hostage taking that the republicans are currently engaged in. i think we shouldn't assume that anybody, including the congress, is impervious to public opinion. at the end of the day, my hope is that some of the so-called moderate republicans will ultimately see the light and do the right thing by the american people. >> congressman joe neguse, as always thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. >> thank you. >> joining me now, randi bach, an msnbc political analyst who has worked with two former house speakers, speaker paul ryan and speaker john boehner. thank you so much for coming back to the sunday show. you are wide awake for someone i saw a late last night. let me pick up something that congressman neguse said about this. it's find have conversations about budgetary items in the normal regular order process. why isn't that happening with this current republican majority? >> that hasn't happened for years. let's be clear, the fundamental normal appropriating spending budget process is completely broken. nobody really abides by, that's why we end up funding the government in one huge bill every year. it is not normal, people do appreciate this, is not normal to do a bet limit bill cleary. he wants to increase the debt limit. we've had a lot of debt limit increase limits over. i could see that. but it is normal to attach a debt limit to some type of fiscal measure. that is how we've done it many, many times. sometimes it deals with cut spending, sometimes it deals to set spending. the get limit is the most difficult bill that you can pass. usually throughout the year. and you always attach something to it, or almost always attach something to let go down a little easier. i think the white house knows they're gonna have to go shape with kevin mccarthy, i think they know they're going have to be some -- even if suffolk, there's gonna be something. it's probably in their interest to engage. >> when you say almost always, because i'm sitting here thinking, i don't remember anything being attached to a get limit bill until 2011. is that we mean over the last ten years? it's not before. >> the process by which he passed a budget, it automatically increase the debt limit. the debt limit definitely has become much more of a game and a fight in recent years. debt limit theoretically exists as a check on the amount of debt we have. it makes congress confronted the problem. if you just completely ignore the problem, how to get rid of it because i don't think it's solving the problem. but it is not crazy to think that when you approach the debt limit it is a good time to check in on the fiscal health of the country. should we do something about it? i think joe biden has said that he's going to do that. at some time, they better start having these conversations. >> the president says he is willing to do that as part of, and this is where i was getting at, with the normal regular order. meaning the budget process. the president put out his budget last month, there is a document from the white house that lays out the fiscal priorities. and yet, speaker mccarthy has not done that yet. instead, he is using this debt ceiling bill as a stand in for the budget. is -- what is his endgame here? ultimately, that's my question. >> i don't think what he passes dramatically changed what the outcome will be. i think what he passed it was intended to be a starting position, maybe he will say the starting position, but nothing in there is really anything that he's going to agree to. this was more to force him to come to the table because you are right, joe biden said that i need to see something. privately, he's acknowledging that he put something on the table, maybe we'll be able to have a conversation, and tell you that. he has a four seat majority. they're very difficult to pass. we effectively put will be a proxy for the budget. that just kind of clears the debts for us. he passed, it is a good showing for us. his members backed him up, that is good. now we gotta get serious. when you have a real conversation about what that looks like. i think it's going to be a very small deal, whatever ends up. it's gonna be very difficult for kevin mccarthy to bring. but they need to start having this conversation. >> let's talk about it, it is difficult because the speaker was able to pass this. it gave away more stuff, like he did in order to win the speakers gavel. now he's got no wiggle room to your point. this thing only passed by two votes, if memory serves, four republicans voted against it. he is not really operating from a place of strength if his party has no room to go she ate. >> i think everybody understands that this is going to have to be bipartisan at the end. a large number of those are probably never going to vote for the final deal. if you try to pass a bill like this, republican only, you're trying to use as leverage to say look, i can pass something. i've got the votes. but was so big and so extreme, and so not realistic, it doesn't really serve as a whole lot of leverage. ultimately, they're gonna to bring a bill that is bipartisan, that joe biden is going to sign off on. that is when things are gonna get difficult. you may see it much, much smaller number of republicans willing to vote for something like that. >> given what you just said, where we sit right now, yes or no, will we crash through that ceiling? >> i think we will avoid it. i think it is a very real possibility that we need to start contemplating what those scenarios look like. i think when that deal comes together, can mccarthy will have a very difficult choice of how to bring it together. he is basically, at this point, he said that we passed a deal for you, go and negotiate. colby joe biden in a negotiation. that's going very difficult to do at this point. >> coby joe biden in a negotiation. good luck everybody, we got into buck is always, thank you very much for coming to this issue. after the break, how close are we to defaulting and what should be done about federal spending? we will dig and all of this next, stay with us. g and all of thi next, stay with us >> tech: when you have auto glass damage, trust safelite. we'll replace your windshield, and recalibrate your advanced safety system. so automatic emergency braking and lane departure warning work properly. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ (psst psst) ahhhh... with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy, long lasting relief in a scent-free, gentle mist. 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i'm gonna ask the president of the committee for responsible federal budget. my, welcome to sunday show. is it? is this the right thing to do? >> no, of course not. something is important as the debt limit which we actually have to lift and failing to do so would be cataclysmic for the economy. that is not the right thing to wrestle over how to implement savings on. however, the problem is that there is no writing. we don't have a budget process in this country. more often than not we have not passed a budget and we are basically flying blind. that situation leaves people who want to put notion that we have to get our fiscal health in order, which is 100% true. you can't look at that and say there's nothing to worry about here. we are on track to have record levels of debt as a share of gdp. we are on track to pay more interest than we do on defense for medicaid in the next few years. we have to do something. where should we do it is in the normal budget process. the problem is, we don't budget anymore and the budget committees fail to put up budgets. they have for all the past years. we will not see real budgets get done this year, we've already missed a deadline. >> so, normal budget process, the president tried. he put out a budget last month. there is a budget, an executive budget from the white house. have you heard anything about speaker mccarthy and the house majority presenting their own budget, like real budget? not this,, limit save grow act what you call it act. >> the president put out his budget, it was late which means they put out there -- the questions, will they do it at all? the house budget committee says it is going to put out a budget and it will be bigger and more comprehensive than what they have just put out which is just their offer or their deal. the senate budget committee apparently is not planning to put a budget out at all. and honestly, the deadline for the budgets from congress is april 15th, they should have had it done, both of them. it's not a responsibility to get done. better late than never. we see what they're planning, the house is apparently getting theirs done. they'll be useful, that is what they're saying, that is what they're telling me. but the senate is not planning to. the point is, italy all done too late to deal with the debt limit. the sequencing here is all wrong. we need to figure out our spending levels, we did figure out what to do with the fact that we are borrowing much more than we can afford to, it's bad for the economy. it is bad for national security. we need to lift the debt ceiling as quickly as possible frankly, we should've done it months ago. the fact that we are waiting to have last-minute on something this important is reckless. i think both sides are making huge mistakes. . a star with the republicans. >> what is the mistake they're making? >> you can't hold the debt ceiling hostage. you can't ignore the fact that much of the burrowing that is going on, republicans have supported it. so we let them pay for tax cuts, we have on pace increases, both of which republicans have increased. we've had the failure to deal with existing structural imbalances in our budget from a login programs that would make the debt ceiling. that is irresponsible. talk about taking hostage. however, on the democratic side, acting as though we shouldn't be talking about improving the fiscal situation and putting savings in place is not right either. i think republicans are right to say that we need a big savings. president biden -- >> i'm glad you finish the thought. >> president biden has overseen massive amounts of borrowing, not just for covid, but trillions of dollars of new boring for a period of inflation which made that inflation worse. it made fiscal station worse. they need to talk about how to generate savings. >> so, to be fair, democrats are saying let's put the conversation back at ceiling over here. if you really want to talk about getting the fiscal house in order, let's talk about it over here as part of the budget conversation. >> let's do, it let separate the two of them. they don't need to go hand in hand. the fact is that democrats were not talking about savings at all. that is until the issue of force on the agenda. it wasn't on the agenda. joe manchin, yes, the rest the party, they were talking about it. it is not the right vehicle to hold hostage. it is the worst thing we can do. but it is the right idea to say that when you talk about savings. the truth is that our debt ceiling actually has been used to demonstrate savings. interestingly, for 2011, it actually was, we had spending caps, we had actual policies that generated savings. we had rules, we had some symbols. all which came out of increases to the debt ceiling. but under president trump, there were three debt ceiling increases. they also had bills attached to them. you know they did? they made the death worse. the three increases under president trump all made the debt much worse and they burrowed more. that is the opposite of fiscal responsibility for sure. that is the mauve of what we really shouldn't do. we've got to it this debt ceiling. we should not wait until the last minute. but we should generate savings and the bill the house put out is a reasonable starting point. it is not crazy, we're gonna balance the budget in ten years, which would have been impossible and they would have been a talking point, nothing real. it is actually some policies that we could talk about, discretionary caps, should be repealed the rest of the covid, what we do about student debt. those are worth a discussion. >> a discussion as part of regular budget issues. just to be clear. >> a separate them, let's have that savings next discussion right away. let's push the debt ceiling out for a number of months if we need more time through a short term increase. we can get this negotiator done. i think you have a good plan right there. >> well thank you very much my mcginiss, i think i'm from the brandon buck school. get rid of the debt ceiling. it makes no sense. >> it's not about policy, you need something -- if you want to be fiscally responsible, don't say i'm not going to lift the debt ceiling, say i'm going to pass legislation that increases the debt. >> there is your sunday sermon. >> i mean it is, thank you very much are coming back to the sunday show. , he was expelled from the tennessee state house and eventually reinstated. a huge rally in washington was met with the president. state representative justin jones has had an eventful last few weeks and now we see him right there, he will join me in studio live right after the break. stay with us. stay with us. create something new? 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>> people were very supportive of the event, celebrating the first amendment. we have been fighting for the first amendment, fighting for democracy. you are so key and vital in, i want to be there and see a familiar face. >> so in the intro, i talked about the fact that you were expelled for speaking out gun violence and you were expelled from the body. we look at you as you are fighting for gun safety, but i notice that you put an emphasis on first amendment and what that dinner was about last night. talk about why it was so important for the three of you to speak out on a message that went beyond the specific thing you are protesting, which was gun violence. >> definitely, our expulsion really was this collision of these three issues of fighting for the proliferation of guns. also fighting to defend democracy voices of dissent, challenging authoritarian forces within our nation right now. and third was the issue of racism, you saw that we were expelled. we saw this collision of the three issues and it really does transcend as one issue. our movement transience one issue because we live there. fighting for democracy, seeing a lot of emphasis, corresponding to protecting journalists, especially those who are predicting -- we know that the first amendment, we are fighting for democracy, we know that free press was vital if you're going to continue to move forward and represent the future that i hope our generation wants to put forth in this world. >> let me ask you about something that goes beyond tennessee. i'm thinking about montana. what do you think of efforts there to silence the opposition? i'm thinking about montana state representative sonia who was expelled from the house floor. she can't even go on the house floor to speak on behalf of her constituents. she can vote remotely, meaning outside there in the hall. how does what is happening to her fit into what happened to you? >> i talk to representatives after a couple of times. she has been expelled, including the night she was expelled, we were interviewed together. that evening, if you come from one of us, you come for all of us. this is issue about challenging a system that seeks to suppress the voice of those directly impacted by these issues. zephyr was challenging anti lgbtq trans legislation. it was the only -- she was silenced, she was ousted from the floor as a duly elected lawmaker. that is not democracy. that is not what our system should be about, challenging those who represent the variations that were discussed. it is very scary and as we said, tennessee went for it, it is a very dangerous precedent, we saw this in montana, we are seeing this in nebraska right now. if it was really about that, we wouldn't be having folks like marjorie taylor right now who continue to break the -- we would have accountability for january 6th. it is about balancing the set. that is what their mission is. >> you were an intern here in washington with congressman barr billy, anyone who watches this show saw the two of you on camera. you know how this tote works, you are legislator yourself. why do you think nothing substantive gets done on gun safety? there is a new fox news poll out that shows, not just overwhelming support, super majority support for just about every piece of a common sense gun safety legislation. why can't anything get done if, as you see there on the screen, more than 80%, almost 87% support background checks for guns? why can't get done at a national level? >> it is an issue of political courage. the majority of americans, as you've just been shown, republicans, independents, democrats, including my state, tennessee, they support these common sense gun laws. but it is about political, courage about standing up to the special interests and putting the lives of our children over the profits of congressman. that's why our generation, we are bringing this urgency, we bring the sense of moral clarity that transcends politics. the speaker the left, right is a full issue of right and wrong. this is a moral issue. i'm not coming to the white house as a political leader, i'm coming to look at this moral voice of our generation say that we have to contribute. we had another shooting yesterday. five also lives. this keeps happening and we must break the cycle. i don't to limit generation that mystifies our generation from sandy hook to the polls this nice club to kentucky. this keeps happening and we don't have to live this way. i think that's what americans are asking for, we have the and are a endorsed governor who is supposed to be calling a special session on guns. that shows the conversations moving forward. we can transform a state like tennessee, i think we can transform this nation and that is going to help. >> we showed a video of you meeting in the oval office with the president, the three of you there. there is one other person in the picture, kamala harris. what did she say to you? >> vp harris was immediately in nashville, she took an emergency trip and that day she reiterated the day after we were expelled. sometimes people have to rise to the occasion. she had us rising in this moment as a generation. she gave one of those powerful speeches i've ever seen her get at this university. that really was a revival for this movement that really was a resurgence of the energy that says that there is urgency about this. we have a moral obligation, we have a history of young people moving movements, like john nash. to have the vice president for action really was moving, to see here there, we saw her by each other. she really is somebody who stands with us and is very authentic and is very powerful in this movement right now. >> i'm trying to hold it together. every time i'm on camera with you, i'm always about to cry because to see you, someone so young speak so passionately and eloquently about our nation and who we can and should be is what gives me so much hope about the future. tennessee state representative justin, thank you very much for coming back into the sunday show. >> thank you so much, jonathan. >> up next, my sunday sound off panel reacts to some of the best moments from last night's white house correspondents dinner. george hague and joan walsh will join me after the break. oan wals will join me after the break (vo) with verizon, you can now get a private 5g network. so you can do more than connect your business, you can make it even smarter. now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. 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[laughter] >> daily show correspondent roy wood junior can scare anyone during his routine at the white house correspondents dinner. the panel is here to discuss all the highlights from there and much more. excuse me, it's because i was there that i'm barely hanging on. george, actor, writer, an observer and joan walsh, national affairs correspondent at the nation. they join me now for sound off. thank you both for coming back to the sunday show. i'm gonna play one more hot from roy would junior about donald trump, watch this. >> you should be desensitized to scandals. the trump arrest was like a pop around the 84 hours ago. do i feel justice, this is supposed to feel like justice. [laughter] let me try one of those georgia arraignment brownies. >> do i feel justice? george, i would love that. >> of that or the whole thing, right would was chefs kiss, chefs kiss. i could listen, i want to buy tickets to his next show. that might be one of the purposes of doing these things. rory crushed it. i know biden has help with writing these things, roy, whether he wrote all that himself or had some help, who cares. it was a brilliant company set and i was all here for it. >> it was really good. i saw that at a dinner friday night. also simone sanders, she interviewed him and that's what i heard. now at the, deter simone sanders. when he said her, everything was great until monday when the president, or tuesday when the president announced his reelection. we had to rewrite everything but yeah, roy would union was great. so was the president. president biden started out his comments very serious, talking about the first and freedom of the press, talking about evan and paul and other americans who are being held overseas and then seamlessly transitioning to the very funny bits that he got out there. i want to play one with the president and what he had to say about fox dominion, watch this. >> they are here tonight, msnbc, fcc universal. fox news owned by dominion voting system. [laughter] [applause] last year your favorite fox news variable to attend because they were fully vaccinated and boosted. this year, it's with that 780 million dollar settlement, they are here because they can say no to a free meal. that joke, it was beautiful. there's so many things that got hit with that. they are anti vax nonsense. >> we knew they were old acts. they're all safe, they're all working from home. and anyone else urging caution. it was hilarious. but i really want that for next year. i want close captioning jonathan. then i can hear who the people are in the audience who are either doing, groaning, not smiling, and also those who are laughing uproariously. that is what i kept on being passed it by, but in terms of the reaction to roy wood junior, but also to the president, there were some people who thought it was very spicy and salty. it was not going down very easily. i think that has to be part of the conversation from here on in. >> you could hear somebody yelling in the background, i found out later from someone who was at that table or near that table that it was someone from australia who was heckling the president which is quite interesting. very interesting. george, he was what rory wood junior had to say about tucker carlson, watch this? >> tucker staff, i want you to know that i know what your feeling. i work at the daily show so i two have been blindsided by the sudden departure of the host of the fake news program. [laughter] >> i mean, the joke was good. what's even funnier was seeing the folks not laughing in that. >> i'm going to double down on what jonah brought up. john, nice to see you. but this is a crowd jonathan, it is so amazing to me. i would love to see more of the crowd, people looking around going, is it okay, can we laugh, is that okay, i completely said that. these cumulus people with no self deprecation. this is the crowd that, in high school, they weren't really funny, they couldn't land a joke, they weren't really good dancers. this is the un-fun crowd and now they are furious about it. they are aware of it. since there really is no policy on that side of things, they're retort is cruelty. i don't look to that crowd. if you had put roy would at the beacon theater, it would have been uproariously funny. if you have no sense of humor. there's no sense of self deprecation, no sense of humor about themselves. none. >> you know, next year george, i'm gonna move heaven and earth to get you down here so that you can be in the room and see what it is really like. in little time that we have left. this week we lost a great, we lost harry belafonte and you wrote a very moving piece with the headline, the gifts he gave me, the singer, actor, an activist gave generously at this time and wisdom, not just me but to the world. in a time that we have been talking about, harry belafonte, what he meant this country and harry belafonte what he meant to you. >> well, starting with what he meant to this country we would not have had the civil rights movement the way we had it had he not stepped up as an organizer, a strategist. he wasn't just in your, he just die songs and benefits, jonathan, you know as well as i do that he was a confidant of dr. king's. he gave a lot of money to the movement as well as two families in their hours need. he would not have -- in terms of what he gave me, i guess that is less important, that's the one thing that i can talk about the no one else can say. i made a documentary about him, about the week in 1968 when he hosted the tonight show with johnny carson. he gave him a whole week to sit down and have guests like talking, bobby kennedy. aretha franklin, it was a combination of great comedians and serious political talk. he gave so generously about his time. it took me about seven years to make it because i'm not really a documentarian. i just play one right now with you. but joy reid, our colleague joy reid was an executive producer. she gave us so much help, she stepped in as our director, my friend valerie thomas. we have had so much time with him. he gave us a second interview when we weren't really happy with all the questions. i just felt so grateful for the time that he and his family gave. i love him. >> john, as always thank you for coming to this sunday show. coming up next, defining kamala harris vice presidency ahead of next year's election. my essay after the break. my essay after the break. how to grow more vibrant flowers: step one: feed them with miracle-gro shake 'n feed. that's it. miracle-gro. all you need to know to grow. how to grow delicious herbs: step one: use miracle-gro potting mix. that's it. miracle-gro. all you need to know to grow. ♪ i like to move it, move it ♪ ♪ you like to... move it ♪ we're reinventing our network. ♪ ♪ ♪ fast. reliable. perfectly orchestrated. the united states postal service. knowing where you came from, it gives you a sense of “this is who i am”. oh my goodness... wow, look at all those! you get hungry for more and then you're just like, “wow, i'm learning about my family.” yeah, yep. which one, what'd you find? 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if you get the boss you are the boss. try subway's tastiest menu upgrade yet. >> today on velshi, a plug landscape is unfolding in front of us. with joe biden officially launching his reelection campaign against a gathering republican field that is still dominated by the ex president who is subject of multiple ongoing criminal investigations. currently, he's a defender in a civil case playing out in new york city