Mother Supreme Court case in just a second. And the president announced last night that american troops have been sent to build a new base there. Right now im joining by the nation magazine editor. Conservatives take aim at Voting Rights. Ryan haygood a member of the Litigation Team arguing shelby v. Holder before the Supreme Court this week. And bishop harry jones, a pastor at the Mount Mariah Baptist Church in colorado and in support of the Voting Rights act. In 1965, over a century of the emancipation proclamation, signed into law, people of color with their exercise of the right to vote. The heart of the voting ryes action is section five which subjects any voting changes in the south and some other covered jurisdictions with a history of Racial Discrimination to a process known as preclearance. Meaning these states must first clear any changes that affect the Justice Department or the federal court to make sure they dont have a racially biased fact. When the Supreme Court hears shelby versus holder that essentially says things have changed in the south. Its now antiquated, unnecessary and therefore unconstitutional. Undeniably, the south say different place today than it was in 1965. And yet not one africanamerican has been elected to state office in mississippi, louisiana or South Carolina. In the last few months states covered under section five and not covered have shut down voting. The i. D. Laws, last october, a panel of federal judges blocked South Carolinas proposed voter i. D. Law from taking effect. And john bates wrote one cannot doubt the vital function that section five of the Voting Rights act has played here. The Supreme Court under roberts has hinted that has run its course. President obama approved a local exemption in section five. And in the oral arguments Justice Robert questions if section five is necessary and why it burdened separate jurisdictions differently. So is it your position that today southerner, more likely to discriminate than northerners . I wouldnt frame it in that way, chief Justice Robert. So your answer is yes . I think its fair to say that the pattern has been more repetitious violations in the covered jurisdictions and more one off discrimination in other places. Well, its remarkable that the case before the court is at its outcome more or less hinges on the u. S. Supreme court. Five justices deciding whether or not to strike down and reauthorized four times by massive overwhelming parties of congress and president s of well, only republican president s. Because of whether the Court Decides the south is no longer racist. Its great to have you all here. I think this case, weve covered a bit on the network. But i think you cannot overstate the importance of the case. Its probably one of the biggest cases the court has had in a long time. And bishop, i want to begin with you. Thank you for traveling up here in new york from Shelby County, alabama. One of my best friends lives in alabama. I love the state of alabama. I want to go to you first. Because the basic argument here when you clear away the constitutional arguments being made, the legal arguments, part of whats so strange about the case is its going to come down to a determination of a basic sociological fact which is how imbedded is racism in areas that are covered . How much is this law still justified by the fact that there is still the wielding of power and the instant towards exclusion on the part of people that wield power in the south in this long history. So my question to you is, whats your sense of that . What would be your answer be in you could talk to the justice of what its like in shelby what would you tell them . I would definitely assure them that racism is still alive. It hasnt gone anywhere. I think racism has taken a different face. In the earlier days it was blatant. I mean, they didnt hide it. Now, its kind of concealed. It travels in a different vehicle now. And so, ive lived in alabama all of my life. And im kind of a bloodhound when it comes down to racism. I sniff it out, you know. And it is still alive. And i think that sometimes we paint a picture on the surface, but i think that being a resident of Shelby County i look beneath the surface. So, i mean, the bloodhound metaphor is great, right . Because the weird thing is were going to unleash these nine justices sniffing this out. Not from Shelby County, not from the covered jurisdictions. So how would you convince me, how would you convince chief Justice Roberts or Justice Kennedy, that things will go very badly if they strike this down . Well, i mean, you know, weve already seen some things. Weve had one of our councilmen, mr. Earnest montgomery, because of the way the district was divided, lost the election. Even on top of that when the d. O. J. Told them or advised them not to have the election, they went on with the election anyway. This is a black elected member of the city council, is that right . Thats correct. Because of that, he lost his seat. D. O. J. Came back you know, deemed it, i guess, unconstitutional. And they had to redo. And they had an atlarge vote and he was the top votegetter. It was designed to dilute the black community. Is this what this case ultimately rests on . Perfect for this, ive worked in the court. Ive spent some time in the court. How fact down this case seems. It really seems like the court is going to make some determination about this basically sociological fact about the covered jurisdictions which is how much racism is there . How imbedded are these practices . It seems a strange thing for the court to be doing . It is a strange thing, chris. Whats interesting Congress Asked all these questions about whether or not Racial Discrimination is prevalent in the covered jurisdictions. They analyzed looking at the covered jurisdictions versus the uncovered. I know theres rhetoric that he didnt do that. But they did. And congress looked at it. 21 hearings. Yeah, right. Its sortch this huge process, exactly what congress is supposed to do. I think what youre getting at, the court defined the parameters how the court can act. I guess for the 90s said, look, heres the work where you can act. Heres unconstitutional conduct and you can act in this world. Right. And they actually held up the Voting Rights authorization for 92 as the Gold Standard for how congress should act. And congress acted in that way in this instance, so whats the problem. How do we lose . Can i just say, its not racism like it was in 1965, the George Wallaces of the world are gone. But its political racism, in the sense, luke in the south. The southern gop is 88 white. The Southern Democratic Party is 50 white, 56 africanamericans and the rest are minority groups. When theyre growing in the south are aligning themselves in the Democratic Party, the gop is passing Voter Suppression laws in response to that. It doesnt matter if its outright racism it has the same effect. I think it pushed back for a second, not completely, but i actually think the power of the section five is not on the national level. Or not the congressional level. Its important there what we just heard about whats happening in clara and Shelby County, were talking about water districts. County commissions. Police juries, local stuff where party doesnt matter. Its not partisan. I think its important to take away from what Patrick Jones said, manifested in places covered by sections five is synonymous with the original discrimination we saw in 1965. This is really part of what dates back to the beginning in alabama . What do you mean by that . The city of calera, in 2008, submitted by the city of calera that sought to eliminate the sole africanamerican district by reducing the black population from 70 to 29 . Right. Though the department of justice rejected it as discriminatory, his redistricting plan, the city of calera never held an election which the sole city councilman who is also a party in this case lost his seat. This is after the d. O. J. Rejects the plan. Thankfully, under section five, the department of justice required the city to redraw the ballots in a nondiscriminatory way and hold another election in which we saw the africanamericans, because of the votes of the africanamericans in that district in calera regain his seat. And this practice is exactly what voters in alabama saw when the Voting Rights act was passed in 1965. An iconic example of this is kilmichael, mississippi. The consensus, the town has a population of 830 of whom 52. 4 are black. Currently the mayor and all five Board Members are white. On may 15th, 2001, with no notice to the community, the board unanimously voted to cancel the general election. First the decision toe cancel came only a majority of the registered voters and the release of census data indicated that black persons were now a majority of the town. You see this all the time. Weird changes being promoted just when the latino or Africanamerican Community is able to realize some electoral power. I want to talk what the numbers look like. And the argument that people in favor of striking down section five are making which is basically the act should be a victim of its own success. The fact that the numbers are good enough. One very important point that needs to be brought to the table, also, as mr. Managemenon he served there. You have other councilman aware of the fact that the d. O. J. Canceled the election. Right. And owl of the councilmen knew except mr. Montgomery who was the black councilman. He didnt even find out about it until after, you know, the election. This is a little but i want to talk more about that right after we take a quick break. Ender, and youll dump your old duster. But dont worry, hell find someone else. Whos that lady . Whos that lady . Sexy lady, whos that lady . [ female announcer ] swiffer 360 dusters extender cleans high and low, with thick all around fibers that attract and lock up to two times more dust than a feather duster. Swiffer gives cleaning a whole new meaning. And now swiffer dusters refills are available with the fresh scent of gain. And a flavor paradisensefills aof Delicious Fishes friskies seafood sensations. Feed the senses. What do we do when something really wants to be painted . We break out new behr ultra with stainblocker from the home depot. The best selling paint and primer in one that now eliminates stains. So it paints over stained surfaces, scuffed surfaces, just about any surface. 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This isnt an overreach. But i think people who think the law should no longer be in effect think, looking the problem is solveds right . Right. Why do you want to keep insulting the sovereign dignity of the great state of alabama if it turns out that what is that, 99 percent are getting the number, chris, has always been less than one percent of the number of those changes that are objected to. So the number has always been small, but the actual each objection protects many, many, many voters. So, for example in the state of texas, for example, we recently saw the department of justice rejected texas photo i. D. And they litigated that in the court. And 3,000 people did have the i. D. That texas were requiring. 70,000 of whom were people of color. Each objection protects many, many voters and the number of objections has been small. I want to bring in horace cooper, cochair of the project 21 National Advisory board that filed an amicus brief to strike down section five. Horace, what is interesting here, the Voting Rights act in an american Political Landscape thats remarkably polarized is incredibly unanimously or near unanimously supported. The margin, its been reauthorized three times. A huge margin, 98 to zero. I want to play a little sound from three republican president s who signed reauthorization of the law. Take a listen. There must be no question whatsoever about the right of each eligible american, each eligible citizen, to participate in our elective process. The extension of this act will help to ensure that right. The right to vote is the crohn jewel of american liberties, and we will not see its luster diminished. Today, we renew a bill that helped bring a community on the margins into the life of american democracy. My administration will vigorously enforce the provisions of this law and we will defend it in court. And my question to you, horace, given this bipartisan support, given the extensive congressional record, given all of this, shouldnt there be a lot of deference afforded to congress for determination . Why should we be overturning something that has such broad support in the American Public . Well, naturally, of course, the Supreme Court will give a great deof deferengree of defere president and as they should. Thats the natural progress but the discussion thats occurred this morning is failing to appreciate that there are certain legal principles that are at stake. The Supreme Court is not going to be making a diagnosis of whether or not the south has made progress in terms of racial line or not. Theyre going to be addressing specific, factual issues. And the legal arguments that are associated with those. Much of that has been left in this mornings conversation. Youre right. Let me read from you the last time that the court talked about this issue, with the north austin municipal district. Chief Justice Roberts saying more than 40 years ago, the court concluded that exceptional conditions prevailing in certain parts of the country justified extraordinary legislation otherwise unfamiliar to coveredle jurisdiction. In part due to the success of that legislation, we are now a very different nation. Whether conditions continue to justify such legislation is a difficult constitutional question we do not answer today. The test that the chief justice himself enunciates in that section of his previous opinion is about whether the conditions continue to justify such legislation. The conditions are a matter of fact. And so the court is going to be mitigating a factual determination about these conditions, isnt it . Im sorry, youre looking at the rhetoric portion of the ruling and assuming thats going to be the basis for the actual determination. And the fact of the matter is, that the actual serious constitutional challenge of separating some states out and treating them one way challenges the notion of state sovereignty. And equal it is sovereignty sorry. Its a serious issue that has to be addressed. In oral arguments Justice Kennedy enunciated this the best. I think senator kennedy is looking seriously at the question of whether or not he thinks what congress did in 2006 was within that circle. That i talked about a minute ago. Of where congress is allowed to act to stop on constitutional conduct. Hes looking at that question. I think the evidence that the ryan was talking about, the pastor was talking has been answers get. In 2006, this was before the congress, they found section five, 25 of the u. S. Population. But they accounted for 52 of violations of other parts of the Voting Rights act. You look at the 2012 election, states covered in full by section five, twothirds of them passed voting restrictions compared to onethird of the noncovered jurisdictions. There isnt there isnt a power in ohio or michigan. The power is still worse in places like alabama and mississippi. Horace, more of this question, its sort of the core of this case, right after we take this break. See thats much better that was good. You had your shoulder pointed, you kept your eyes on your target. Lets do it again watch me. Just like that one. [ male announcer ] the durability of the volkswagen passat. Pass down something he will be grateful for. Good arm. Thats the power of german engineering. Back to you. I dont wanna be right [ record scratch ] what . its not bad for you. It just tastes that way. [ female announcer ] honey nut cheerios cereal hearthealthy, whole grain oats. You cant go wrong loving it. Ive been using crest prohealth for a week. My dentist said it was gonna help transform my mouth. 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