The imminent indictment watch on the maralago documents. I dont think about it, all i know is this, everything i did was right. Tonight have got thoughts on trumps real motive for taking all that classified info. Then, the Winning Strategy for candidate desantis. Being the most anti vax person on the ballot . We can never allow warp speed to trump informed consent in this country ever again. Plus, president Bidens Oval Office address. Passing this Budget Agreement was critical. The states cannot have been higher. And the crazy story of why republicans in iowa have stripped the power from the State Auditor . All in starts right now. Good evening from new york im chris hayes. President joe biden just wrapped up a Primetime Address to the nation from the oval office touting the Debt Ceiling Deal that he brokered with speaker Kevin Mccarthy this week. A lot of attention has been focused on the swift passage of that bill in the house on wednesday, the senate late last night. Large bipartisan majorities. All thats been happening, Special Counsel jack smith has been barreling ahead with his investigation of the ex president , now the leading contender for the republican nomination in 2024. Earlier this week we learned that smith had obtained a key new piece of evidence in the case of Donald Trumps handling of classified documents. Hes now in possession of an Audio Recording in which trump acknowledges he held on to Classified Pentagon documents about a potential attack on iran. On that recording from july 2021 meeting at his bedminster, new jersey golf club. Trump began railing about his handpicked chairman of the Joint Chiefs Of Staff general mark milley who was described in media counts at the time is having guarded against trumps strike in iran in the final days of his presidency newtowns reports the ex president began referencing a document he had with him saying it had been compiled by General Milley and was related to attacking iran. According to new reporting just out this afternoon, trumps attorneys have not found that classified document in question, even after receiving a subpoena specifically for earlier this year. So where is it now . We dont know. But i think this new information that we got yesterday, this recording and the context of the document and mark milley. It finally clarifies a key question, the question around Donald Trumps motive for holding on to these many classified documents after he left the white house. In a strictly legal sense the motive doesnt actually matter. In order to file criminal charges the Special Counsel just has to believe that a crime was committed. Its a shock if its Strong Enough to lead to a conviction but of course juries, and us the public, we do want to know why. Why would he do this. The question of why the ex president took these documents and then refused to give them back and apparently obstructed attempts to get them back, so far has not been clear. Theres been a few theories. So some people have suggested, floated this, not based on any evidence, just as a theory. That trump had a corrupt he wanted to sell the information he had taken to foreign interest. I have to say, that always struck me is pretty unlikely. I think that would be a more complicated highrisk play that donald trump is equipped to even attempt. Then theres another theory, a suggestion that he kept the documents because the guys just a paragraph who really likes souvenirs. And i have to say, thats been kind of my leading belief. It seems totally plausible, just given the state of his office in trump tower. This office is all you, and its a little bit junkie. Yeah, you know what, this guy just got a few weeks ago. This is from the marine corps, thats the chair for the apprentice that are used. Tom bradys super bowl helmet. This is mike tyson spell. This is vince mcmahon, from the World Wrestling federation, this is Shaquille Oneals shoe. Is that a real issue . He took enough of a game and handed it to me. Okay, so, i dont think thats a bit. Thats not a bit this is a guy who really likes knickknacks and memorabilia. And he likes to show them off to people. Do you remember he even stuck in empty classified folder that he had clearly taken from the presidency in a display case at the bar at trump tower. So keeping the dozens of classified documents that went to those could just be his president ial version of mike tyson memorabilia. Its possible. But again, i mean, this might be the reason but when you take a step back it is a lot of time and effort and legal bills for will amount to a bunch of souvenirs. Which brings us to why the new reporting the pentagon document trump talked about is to sow revealing. Almost kind of a light bulb moment in understanding this. As the New York Times mentioned in their reporting in the summer of 2021, there were several news stories about how general mark milley was working to prevent donald trump from attacking iran in the last month of his presidency this one from the new yorker explain that as chairman of the Joint Chiefs Of Staff, really had been engaged in an alarmed effort to ensure that trump did not embark on a Military Conflict with iran on part of his quixotic Panic Campaign to overturn the results of the 2020 reelection, election and remain in power they fear that trump would insist on launching it launching a strike that would result in a full blown war. Trump hated that report and claimed that the document that he had, the classified document he had taken, according to reporting on the recording. That document, he says milley wrote, that would undermine the general story. How could donald trump have been working, how could milley have been working against attacking iran if he wrote the plan of how to do it. Now, again, to be clear, this is all misleading. The military has contingency plans for pretty much everything including a war with iran. Sources have also told multiple news outlets that milley did not write that report. But in Donald Trumps point of view, that document was his ammunition to settle his score with the general. That is the motive that really makes sense to me. That that he just plucked documents for souvenirs. But that he took them specifically as receipts. If he has documents in his possession he can wield the information they contain as leverage. The information in those classified documents is powerful. That is why the entire complicated, overly complicated system of classification exists. It is why the worlds of Intelligence Agencies exist. To extract information against the will of other states because that information is useful and it is powerful. Donald trump would want that secret information for saint reason the spine might want to. To use it to his advantage against his enemies. That motive fits perfectly within Donald Trumps character. I dont know if it is the motive but its the motive, its the first time a possible motive makes the whole Situation Snap into focus for me. And the recording about this one document may be the final piece of the puzzle falling into place in Special Counsel jack smiths investigation. Joining me now is Andrew Weissmann he served as the prosecutor on Special CounselRobert Muellers investigation. Coast of the podcast, prosecuting donald trump, which is a fantastic way of keeping up with the engine out of the various investigations. Lets start in this mode of question. Earlier i said you dont have to establish a motive for someone to be convicted. But it does just kind of night you. I wonder how important think it is and how much any prosecutor would be giving to establish there are a couple things to think about. If you think about the murdaugh double murder trial. That is the fellow who was convicted of killing his son and wife. The jury didnt have a specific motive. There was a variety of different theories and yet there was a guilty verdict. It is of course possible to tell a jury you dont know and the jury still can find the elements of the crime. But i agree with you. Jurors like all of us want to know why. If you can have a motive it makes it harder to have a conviction. And what you said, i think its totally write that that is a very plausible motive. This is one more to date myself its a little bit like what they said it Saturday Night Live you can have multiple motives. And you could have different motives with respect to different documents. There could be being a paragraph, there could be narcissism, there could be hubris, there could be wielding it as leverage against your enemies. I would say on the financial component, the way havent been thinking about that this is all speculation. Its not that he was thinking of im going to sell this. But it makes him more valuable commodity. If you are trying to do something with saudi arabia or other Financial Institutions or countries. You know, you have this information in little bits and pieces of it could be useful in sort of a pay to pay play kind of way. As opposed to, im going to sell the document. All of those are possible motives. I suspect that jack smith doesnt have. Theres one for each document, but they are all sort of potential ways. I dont think we can put too much emphasis on motive. And i should be clear part of what is wild about this story is just the sheer number of documents. There are so many he took and then returned, and returned, and returned, it was like a vaudeville routine with a Clown Coughing Up Eggs or something. Every time theyre still more so to your point about there could be more motives its like, who knows. Why were there hundreds of documents, if im not mistaken. You were just part of a team that put together, what you are calling a Model Prosecution. That was very interesting, i read it today. Theres a bunch of people that will be familiar with it. Viewers of the show will be familiar with joyce goodman, dr. Perry one of the things you put out in this Model Prosecution memo which i think is key and weve gone back and forth around it. Its whether declassification or classification, whether this cockamamie theory of it even matters. Doesnt even touch what is being alleged here. I want you to talk about that a little bit because you write the memo. The defense based on declassification is unavailable for several reasons including that of the criminal statutes have turned on the Classification Status of the documents. So yeah, this has been talked about. I think its a little bit, it relates to what you said about motive. It is not necessary for many of the criminal charges that the government showed that the document was classified or not. By the way, if donald trump wanted to actually introduce it at trial like he said, i just thought of this and they were declassified. Somebody on his side is going to have to testify. Donald trump or somebody else. Frankly, if you are jacks mitt, you are sitting there going to be my guest you want to hop on the stand. Thats never going to happen because its going to be the greatest gift ever to the government. Its going to be hard for him to dispute that factually if he wants to claim that there was declassification. But getting to the point about is it legally necessary . Its not legally necessary for many of these charges in the same way that motive isnt legally necessary, but it can be very useful. And the reason i say that is because some of the charges, for instance, require the government to show that it is National Defense information. Information thats important to the national security. So if you have a classified document and an actual classified document that goes a long way to establish that element, although its not technically necessary. I actually think that the government is going to just go all in on this. I just dont think that justice is going to persevere as i said, it would be very hard for donald trump to mount that evidence at trial and to take the stand. Final question for you is about something that you have some experience with you worked for Robert Mueller who was appointed as Special Counsel under the Department Of Justice regulations that make that position possible. He very famously wrote a report, headed to the Attorney General who quite famously gave his own gloss on it which, many think was quite deceptive. In this case, how do you view that relationship between whatever determination jack smith makes and the next step in terms of does it go to Merrick Garland, would be garland to make that announcement, would be smith. How do you see that playing out given that you know this pretty well . Thats a great question. If donald trump appeals to Merrick Garland and appears from his letter that maybe what he was doing. Merrick garland ultimately is the Attorney General so he has oversight over jack smith who is legally considered whats termed a subordinate officer. Even though there is a Special Counsel. The reason it is constitutionalist because jack smith reports to the Attorney General, sorry to be so in the weeds. What that means is that the Attorney General has the power to overrule what it is jackson with recommends. Under the regulations which the Attorney General doesnt have to follow but ive mentioned he will. Theres an enormous deference to jack smiths recommendation and binding something that is really abhorrent. Hes going to go along with the. But i think hes going to leave it to jack smith to make any announcement, as it should be. Thats interesting, thats crucial, andrew weizmann, thank you very much. Coming up, ron desantis kicks up his 2024 campaign by going full antibiotics. The way they weaponized these covid vaxxes was a massive incursion into our freedoms. The republican partys deadly race for the bottom of next. O next ive contains ala to relieve nerve aches, and bcomplex vitamins to fortify healthy nerves. Try nervive. And, try nervive pain relieving rollon. cheering imagine youre doing something you love. Rsv could cut it short. 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They wanted to deny people the right to put food on their table if they didnt bend the knee and get a covid shot that they may not have wanted, and that many of them did not need. We can never allow warp speed to trump informed consent in this country ever again. Desantis can bring himself to say the name trump except to sort of smuggled in there at the end of that. He thinks that position is a winner. Hes touting his anti vax record in almost every speech. While that might be tactically enticing to distinguish himself from trump, i personally think its strategically disastrous from a political point of view. His competition think so too. One trump super pac just released an attack at pointing out desantis was all for vaccines before he was against them. Back to you regularly scheduled programming to bring you this Important Public Service announcement. My view is if you can get a vaccine, vaccines are effective, you are immune. If you are vaccinated, fully vaccinated, the chance of you getting seriously ill or dying from covid is effectively