Sony pictures not to mess with north korea . You want us to kill the leader of north korea . Yes. What . Angelina jolie, Leonardo Dicaprio and Kevin Federline all victimized as a Sony Pictures hack gets exponentially worse. All that plus the latest on witness 40 when all in starts right now. To quote one of the eyewitnesses, like a Football Player with your head down. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Calls are mounting around the world for the senior officials who authorized and carried out torture to be prosecuted after the Senate Intelligence committees report on the cias detention and Interrogation Program released yesterday revealed this governments torture regime was far more brutal and widespread than previously documented. Top u. N. Officials including the high commissioner for human rights said the reports findings showed clear violations of International Law that demand accountability. While the u. N. Secretary general ban kimoon hopes the report is the stat of prosecutions according to a u. N. Spokesman. It was signed in 1998 by president Ronald Reagan who said, the convention marks a significant step in the development during this century of international measures against torture and other inhuman treatment or punishment. Ratification of the convention by the u. S. Will clearly express United States opposition to torture, an abhorrent practice unfortunately still prevalent in the world today. Reagans line about other inhuman treatment or punishment is key because, while new york congressman peter king may dismiss whats described in the Senate Report saying, were talking about people being made to stand in awkward positions, have water put into their nose and into their mouth. Nobody suffered any lasting injures from this. The tactics employed by the cia clearly fall under the umbrella of torture. Not just under International Law but under our own laws here in the u. S. Here is just one example of something defined in the u. S. Criminal code at this moment as torture. Prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from the threat that another person will be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering. Cia officers also threatened at least three detainees with harm to their families to include threats to harm the children of a detainee, a threat to sexually abuse the mother of a detainee and a threat to cut a detainees mothers throat. They decided not to pursue it, told the a. P. Today it found no new information in the report that would cause its criminal investigation to be reopened. When asked about the report by jose diazbalart, president obama sounded a similarly even tone. I think its important for us not to paint any broad brush about all the incredible, dedicated professionals in our Intelligence Community based on some actions that i think were really contrary to who we are, but i think it is also important for us to face up to the fact that when countries are threatened, oftentimes they act rashly in ways that, in retrospect, were wrong. But in a forthright speech on the Senate Floor Today mark udall called on the president to get rid of all those responsible for torture in the cia including director john brennan. Its bad enough not to prosecute these officials, but to reward or promote them and risk the integrity of the u. S. Government to protect them is incomprehensible. The president needs to purge his administration of high level officials who are instrumental to the development and running of this program. All this means is that instead of having a debate about crime and punishment, we are having a debate about politics. And having defined them beyond the pale of lawful activity, this report isnt surprising. In 2005, 38 said torturing terrorism suspects to gain information can be justified, by 2013 that number had risen. We invited him to be on the show tonight. He accepted then declined. Joining me now is kenneth ross, the director of Human Rights Watch. What is the position of Human Rights Watch in the wake of yesterdays report about the legal action that should be pursued . We are a hundred percent for prosecution. Chris, as you pointed out, theres no question that this was torture. In fact, one of the interesting things in the Senate Report is that the cia knew from the start it was torture and it wasnt shopping around for legal cover. I mean, first went to the Justice Department and said, would you promise not to prosecute . And Michael Chertoff who at the time was the head of the criminal division, to his credit, said no, im not going to give you that kind of a promise. Then they shopped around to the more politicized lawyers in the government and they ultimately got their opinion saying that torture is not torture, trying to justify the unjustifiable. Now theyre trying to wave that around, its unfair if you prosecute us for torture, we relied in good faith on legal counsel, but the report shows this was not good faith at all, this was shopping for a politicized opinion. The other thing is as you note the torture convention requires not only that government refrain from torture, which obama has done, as far as we know, but also that they prosecute torture. Here obama is blatantly flouting the convention. And hes doing it basically for political reasons. He calculated early on i remember speaking with him his first few months in office. He calculated that prosecuting the bush officials who ordered the torture would be too divisive with the right wing in congress. He had a legislative agenda he wanted to pursue. He feared backlash. Clearly, he hasnt gotten much cooperation for that compromise in principle, but were able to see that hes willing on his own, hes issuing environmental rules, issuing immigration rules, why give up on this either to placate the right wing and finally do the right thing, use this for the senate as finally an excuse to prosecute the people who he had been closing his eyes to the crimes until now. Let me play you this bit of an interview, dick cheney who spoke today on this and its not surprising what he said, but it does reiterate the fact that all these folks are still around. Obviously, theyre still members of the public in good standing. And are still making the same arguments. Listen. Did the end justify the means . Absolutely. No doubt in your mind . No doubt in my mind, im totally comfortable with it. We did what we felt was necessary. The professionals and the Intelligence Community, especially the cia did one hell of a job and they deserve our gratitude. When you talk about prosecution, kenneth, are you talking about dick cheney or george bush . What should the prosecution look like . Who should be prosecuted . Were talking about cheney, his aide addington. Were talking about probably george tenet. But let me comment on cheneys comment there, this view that the ends justify the means. First of all, the Senate Report showed that we got bupkis for this torture. Thats what terrorists do. Weve got a political goal and were going to flout the most basic rules of humanity in order to get there. In this case the goal was legitimate, protecting americans. The means used violated the most basic prohibition there is, the one against torture. Kenneth ross for Human Rights Watch, thank you for joining us. Thank you. One aspect of the torture regime that i honestly knew little about was that, according to the report, the cia hired two psychologists to devise its methods of torture and paid them 81 million to do it. It refers to them under the names of Grayson Swigert and hammond dunbar. The report suggests they were behind some of the cias most brutal tactics. Officers aligned with it complained that they were running a sissified Interrogation Program. One of them told reuters that it was a bunch of hooey. In an exclusive report entitled the architect which premiered today, vice news sat down with mitchell. The purpose of the enhanced Interrogation Program was to get the detainee to be willing to engage with a debriefer or a targeter who was asking a question, and that it wasnt designed so that you would ask questions about actual intelligence while the detainee was experiencing the enhanced Interrogation Program. Almost like a good cop, bad cop kind of setup with a really bad cop. Joining me now Investigative Reporter who produced that piece. Let me start at the beginning and ask what may seem a strange question, but how do you even put out a contract for psychologists to consult on torture . Whats even the genesis of this when the whole things classified and top secret, how do they even connect with these two men . Thats a great question, chris. I filed actually a freedom of information act request for this contract about three years ago, and the cia issued whats known as a neither confirm nor deny that this exists. The Senate Confirms that there was a contract, a 180 million contract, that the Firm Received 80 million out of that. After 9 11, as James Mitchell says in this interview, he made a phone call to someone who was managing one of his contracts. He said something should be done, and this person on the phone said to him, how can we ask anyone else to do something if youre not willing to do it yourself . So it appears that at that moment that was sort of the start of getting involved in doing something. He said he wanted to be part of the solution. And apparently that solution meant taking this defensive program known as Survival Evasion Resistance escape, this was a program taught to u. S. Military personnel how to avoid being tortured if they were captured by an enemy regime. And we turned that into an offensive program. That program was reverse engineered by James Mitchell and john jensen. So this sere program which a lot of folks go through, is how you resist being tortured, did James Mitchell actually do any of like, was he in the room . Was he sending emails to folks . Maybe try a, you know, rectally hydrating them . Maybe try smashing them against a wall . Maybe suggest youre going to kill someones mother . How in depth was this, how handson from him . He could not speak about his specific role in this program due to a nondisclosure agreement that he signed with the cia. However, i can say that he had personally waterboarded Khalid Sheikh mohammed and abu zubaydah. And he was handson. He was right there in the room wearing the black hood. He calls it in the clip that i had seen and so few of the clips of enhanced interrogation techniques, does he actually use the word torture . He uses the word torture when he sees the word torture. The real torture is what the Islamic State did to the captives that it held. Including waterboarding james foley, as we know, which doesnt count as real torture. That he actually said he felt really horrible about that, really horrible about what the Islamic State did, that the waterboarding that james foley and others were subject to, but he claimed the media. He said its the medias fault because this is a classified program and they never should have reported on it. My colleague who conducted this interview did challenge him on that. He said the act itself is not to blame. Mitchell took a step back and said its a shared responsibility. But you know, he is someone who absolutely believes that these techniques were effective. He also disputes the fact that he received 80 million. He said thats absolutely not true. Would not give the amount that he received or what his company received, but, you know, hes very, very defensive of this. He also wanted to point out during this interview that while the Senate Report and other investigations said that he did not have any experience, he says that he has decades of experience. Thank you very much. Senator Elizabeth Warren is mad. This is a democracy and the American People didnt elect us to stand up for citigroup. They elected us to stand up for all the people. Im going to take a guess that former congressman barney frank is also mad about the same thing, ill find out when i talk to him, ahead. The Holiday Season is here, which means its time for the volkswagen signthendrive event. For practically just your signature, you could drive home for the holidays in a germanengineered volkswagen. Like the sporty, advanced new jetta. And the 2015 motor trend car of the year allnew golf. If youre wishing for a new volkswagen this season. Just about all you need is a finely tuned. Pen. Get zero due at signing, zero down, zero deposit, and zero first months payment on select new volkswagen models. I make a lot of purchases foand i get ass. Lot in return with ink plus from chase. Like 50,000 bonus points when i spent 5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. And i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at Office Supply stores. With ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. Travel, gift cards, even cash back. And my rewards points wont expire. So you can make owning a business even more rewarding. Ink from chase. The thing about being a politician is you have a lot of different constituencies you have to listen and to understand. Executives, moms, moms who are executives. And includes people of different faiths. Scott walker, the now governor of wisconsin, gets points for trying. But when he was serving as Milwaukee County executive he responded to a letter from a jewish constituent who seemed to inquire about the possibility of a menorah being placed at the courthouse. He approved the request again and molotov. It was a mistake. But close. [coughing] dave, im sorry to interrupt. I gotta take a sick day tomorrow. Dads dont take sick days, dads take nyquil. The nighttime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, fever, best sleep with a cold, medicine. [coughing] hey amanda, sorry to bother you, but i gotta take a sick day. Moms dont take sick days, moms take dayquil. The non drowsy, coughing, aching, fever, sore throat, stuffy head, power through your day medicine. Whoever you voted for in this last election, whatever you think about the big issues like obama care and immigration, one thing we can all agree on is when americans went to the polls last month, they wanted white potatoes for low income children and pregnant mothers, looser Campaign Finance laws and less regulation of risky wall street behavior. Im just kidding. Thats what were getting buried in the massive new bill to fund the government for nine months. It is for continuing resolution and omnibus is a provision to roll back a key piece of the dodd frank financial reform law that was designed to limit damage from risky derivatives trading. The inclusion of that measure in the spending bill prompted an apoplectic senator Elizabeth Warren to call on her colleagues. Who does Congress Work for . Does it work for the millionaires, the billionaires, the economies with their lobbyists and lawyers or does it work for all the people . I urge my colleagues in the house, particularly my democratic colleagues whose votes are essential to moving this package forward, to withhold support from it until this risky giveaway is removed from the legislation. If the bill does not pass, the governments set to shut down tomorrow night at midnight, although congressional leaders have drafted a shortterm backup if it fails. Failure is a real possibility. John boehner does not appear to have enough republican votes to pass it without democratic support. Nancy pelosi said in a Statement Today that her caucus is deeply troubled by the provisions to roll back wall street regulations and loosen Campaign Finance laws. Chris van hollen has said to vote no. He declined so say whether president obama would sign the bill. Joining me is former democratic congressman barney frank, he of dodd frank. Hes an msnbc contributor. Congressman barney i dont know what to call you any more. Not congressman barney. Im still barney, im not a congressman. So just barney from the block. Lets talk about this provision, and if you can explain it in sort of lay terms, what does it do now, why is it important and why do the banks want to get rid of it . We had an amendment offered by senator lincoln from arkansas i must say originally, i thought it went a little too far, but we worked on it in conference in public with a lot of discussion of it. And it essentially says that banks it already limits what banks can do with derivatives and other risky Financial Instruments with their own money. There is some leeway, though. What this says is if the banks want to do these particularly risky transactions with derivative, they have to set up a separate subsidiary. Remember, banks get deposit insurance. We did, i think effectively say that an institution that fails will not be bailed out and kept alive, it will be liquidated, but you do have deposit insurance. Theres a claim that we have to honor to protect depositors, not shareholders, not executives, but the deposit iters. What we were trying to do is have as little chance as possible for their to be a failure that would draw on the deposit fund. The bill does not prevent these banks its only the biggest banks that would do this. Right. It doesnt prevent them from engaging in the activity, if it