Yes. How do you feel about that . All in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Nbc news has learned that Iraqi Military force backed by u. S. Air strikes and possibly even american Ground Troops could launch an assault to retake the iraqi city of mosul from isis fighters as early as april. This news arrives on the same day that a new poll shows for the very first time a majority of americans now favoring the use of Ground Troops in the fight against isis. It caps a week in which war rhetoric has dramatically ratcheted up. A senior u. S. Official from u. S. Central command told nbc News Pentagon contempt Jim Miklaszewski that as many as 20,000 Iraqi Military and Kurdish Forces could be involved in the operation to retake mosul, iraqs second largest city. The official said that if needed, u. S. Ground forces, including special Operations Forces and Forward Air Controllers used to call in air strikes could also be involved in the operation. Eerily, arriving on the same day, word that for the first time, a majority of americans would support u. S. Ground troops in the battle against isis, according to a cbs news poll. 57 now favor using u. S. Ground troops against isis. That support represents an increase. 47 in october of last year, and just 39 one month before that. Furthermore, 65 of americans now view isis as a major threat to the u. S. The war rhetoric is also not limited to discussion of isis or even iraq. A member of congress is now suggesting that the proposed authorization to use military force in the battle against isis include the nation of iran. Congressman ed royce, republican of california, and chair of the House Foreign Affairs committee, was asked in an interview about including iran in the administrations proposed aumf. That comment comes as hawks in congress are doing everything in their power to destroy the possibility of a deal with iran on its nuclear program. And a rise amid a crescendo of drumbeating for more war in the middle east with the u. S. Waging those wars. And it furthers a week of particularly Harsh Criticism that has been unleashed on the white house. Not only that the proposed aumf should more explicitly allow Ground Troops, but that the president of the United States is not employing the correct war rhetoric. And that particular brand of criticism has not stopped. President obama speaking today at a global conference on violent extremism, bluntly responded to the complaint, that he is not identifying isis as islamic terrorists. We have to confront the warped ideologies espoused by terrorists like al qaeda and isil, especially their attempt to use islam to justify their violence. These terrorists are desperate for legitimacy. And all of us have a responsibility to refute the notion that groups like isil somehow represent islam, because that is a falsehood that embraces the terrorists narrative. If the terrorists narrative in this case is coming from isis that they are fearsome and threatening and coming for the west and coming for the u. S. , well, thats a narrative being embraced all throw american politics and media at this moment. Joining me now, lawrence korbes, former assistant secretary of defense, and matt dust, president of the foundation for middle east peace. Mr. Korbes, let me begin with you, since you were at d. O. D. A while back. What do you make of this news leaking of a planned offensive against mosul, which seems at first blush at least a bit strange, because obviously there is no longer any element of surprise, were there to be one . Well, i think the isis knew we were going to come to mosul. Whats very significant about this, back in the end of november, general dempsey, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, said we would go after mosul in the First Quarter of 2015, but he said wed need 80,000 troops. Now theyre talking about 20,000, which is a big difference. And the fact is that i think it shows that were making some progress. The military always does worse case. If he could go from 80 down to 20, you know, to be able to take mosul, i think that it shows that, you know, we are degrading them, at least militarily. Well, let me follow up on that, and matt, i want to ask you a question. This seems to me to be something that is essentially never talked about. I mean, basically, were getting these horrific images of isis that make you feel angry and terrified and disgusted. That theyre beheading christians on the beach in libya or killing the japanese photographer or the jordanian pilot, that is distinct from whether theyre having a good six months from a strategic standpoint, in terms of the ground they hold. And theres some evidence to suggest that they havent had a good six months in terms of the ground they hold. Okay, again, i think its important that weve killed several thousand of them, and they are replacing them, but the troops that are coming are not nearly as effective as the ones that weve killed. The kurdish the peshmerga is getting much better. Were beginning to train the iraqi forces. I dont worry so much about them going into mosul, because as that same Pentagon Press release talked about, theres 1,000 to 3,000. I wonder what happens after, and i wonder whats happening if youre using shiite militias as part of this 20,000 troops force. Matt, you were witnessed the buildup to the war in iraq in 2002 and 2003. It feels to me an eerily similar kind of crescendo happening, in which its very hard to find any kind of perspective, or to find anyone asking hard questions about what actually happens the day after isis might be defeated or the fact that isis is a creation of the last military intervention there, or the fact that the last place in which we intervened militarily, 2007, in libya, we now have isis. Are we just reprising all of our mistakes . I think the problem here is that its a very seductive idea that military force is decisive in a way that political or diplomatic or the economic tool, all of these other things are not. And i think thats very appealing to people. Because theyre confronted with these images day after day of the brutality of isil, and they are brutal. They are a monstrous organization, theres no question. So i think it gives rise to this idea that we just need to strike them and well solve the problem that way. But i agree, if anything should have the disabused us of this idea, its the last decade and more of iraq. And i just want to pick up on something that larry said. Yeah, so, okay, so even if we take mosul, we will still be stuck with the problems that we were stuck with in iraq, which is that we have a shiitedominated government, thats not inclusive. You have a sunni minority that feels completely unrepresented. This is a problem that we couldnt solve with over 100,000 troops in iraq. So the idea were going to address it now, i just see no strategy for this. Well, larry, you made mention of the shiite troops, and that gets to the fact that whatever political solution there might be to isis seems incredibly difficult to get your hands around. I mean, what do you think were going to see . Are we going to see more u. S. Ground troops in iraq before all is said and done . Well, you might see we already have 3,000 troops. The real question is, are you going to send large combat divisions like we did when we invaded iraq . I think thats off the table. And, you know, when i saw your poll about the americans supporting this, as matt just pointed out, they all supported the initial invasion of iraq. I think if you do use them and you have spotters on the ground that can call in air strikes if you need to, maybe some special Operations Forces, thats allowed in the aumf, the authorization for the use of military force that president obama has set up. But thats what i said, the real question is, what happens after you get mosul . Whos going to run it . Are you going to have shiites in there . Are you going to go house to house to root these people out and cause more damage . And then the final analysis, were not going to defeat isis militarily. We have to undermine their narrative, so that young people around the world are not in the middle east and around the world are not attracted to join them. Matt, i want you to respond to congressman royce. This is a fairly prominent republican, hes the chair of foreign affairs, talking about including iran in the aumf. Off situation now in which there is a war of all against all thats happening across syria and iraq. In which you have american members of congress who want us to be fighting assad, isis, and functionally iran all at the same time. Yeah. Its just crazy. Theres no other word for it. I mean, were in the midst of a very delicate and very important and potentially very significant negotiation with iran, that while would not solve all the problems, it would take the Nuclear Issue off the table and create the possibility of addressing some of these broader issues, between the United States and iran, that could have very positive implications for u. S. Security and for regional security. Now, the idea that we would include iran in a declaration of war and authorization for the use of military force, i mean, if you want to, you know, empower iranian hardliners to simply withdraw from the negotiations, that seems like a great way to do it. And it seems increasingly clear thats what a lot of these hawks in Congress Want to happen. I just cannot imagine. I mean, we have every force that is currently fighting in iraq and syria is a force that at some point, some prominent member of congress or politician or media outlet has called for the u. S. To use military force against. And at a certain point, i mean, you imagine a quagmire of just ghastly proportions, should we see more and more u. S. Troops brought in there. Lawrence korb and matt dust, thank you very much. Thanks. Why it seems like americas mayor doesnt understand the meaning of the word patriot, ahead. I bring the gift of the name your price tool earlier this week, i sat down for a facetoface oncamera interview with a former spy. And interviewing a spy, as you might imagine, is tricky business. Before we go further, ive got to ask you this. Ive had some experience in talking to spooks in my reporting career. And two things have struck me. One is, a lot of them seem a little crazy. And the other thing is, you guys are trained, paid liars. Yes. So its like, why should i believe anything youre saying to me now, right . I mean, you literally, professionally lied for decades. Yeah, youre trained to lie. You lie all the time. You lie, you cheat, you steal, you swindle, you trick people. Thats the nature of the job. More of my interview with john keraku, the only is official to go to prison in connection with cia torture, coming up. Last night in manhattan, a group of conservative economists, media figures, and Business Executives came together for a dinner featuring the mayor can speak for himself. Im not going to comment on what the president thinks or not. He can speak for himself as well. Did you agree with those comments . Were you offended by those comments . What was your reaction when you heard them . Im in new york. Im used to people saying the kind of things you know, people say the president s not patriotic. Quick side note here. Louisiana governor bobby jindal, a likely walker rival in the gop race decided to send out a statement proactively this afternoon, quote, Governor Jindal refuses to condemn giuliani for his commons. Since he wasnt at dinner, just so you know, to be clear, bobby jindal really wants all of us to know, he is squarely on team obama doesnt love america. Now, back to scott walker. I want to be completely clear about what was going on last night. In addition to giuliani, the dinner attendees were reported to have included larry kudlow, arthur laffer, and steven moore, as well as antitax activist, grover norquist, central figures in the gops decadeslove love affair with supplyside economics, whose driving concern is cutting taxes for the rich. What they want is to stick with the mitt romney and paul ryan agenda, and theyre now auditioning to find a better vessel to sell that agenda to the american people. Scott walker, they seem to think they may have found their man. Joining me now, charles pierce, writer at large at esquire magazine, and a staff writer at grant. Charlie, its been a long time since ive seen a politician Say Something preceded by, i know this is a horrible thing to say, but get to the claus, comma, and just keep going. Thats right, once you get to the phrase, i know this is a terrible thing to say, but is when you take off your sock and stuff it in your mouth and you dont talk for the rest of the evening. Chris, remember when you and i were young and mccarthyite used to be an insult . Yes, yes, i do. Well, its not anymore it is permissible within mainstream republican and mainstream conservative dialogue to say anything about this president. Really. It really is. And this is something, i mean, the president doesnt love this country, he wasnt raised the way you and i were which is just gross, i dont know what thats supposed to mean, but he wasnt raised what you and i were raised, who knows what Rudy Giuliani meant by that. But also, the fact, i was genuinely, i will say, i was genuinely, and i probably shouldnt be surprised, genuinely surprised that walker didnt just say, of course i think the president loves this country. Rudy giuliani doesnt speak for me on that. Easy like he wont say it, he wouldnt say it hey, hes still backing and filling on charles darwin. Hes got to work his way up to Rudy Giuliani. Not only is this a party full of bullies, its a party full of cowards. You heard Rudy Giuliani try to walk this thing back today, and as you pointed out saying, i wasnt questioning his patriotism. Well, you werent questioning his sense of style, pal. Everybody knew what you were saying. Everybody in that room knew what you were saying. And to have walker come out and say, well, its new york, you can hear, you know, anybody say anything. This wasnt some guy yelling out the window of a cab. This wasnt some guy on a soap box in central park. This guy was standing up in front of an audience of the creme de la creme of the conservative movement. I mean, you talk about the four horsemen of the apocalypse. You have the four horsemen of the fiscal apocalypse in that room. And to me, what that signifies, i think, is that they are auditioning they see in scott walker, matt obrien, i think, a writer i follow on twitter, said, hes the candidate for people who think that republicans just need to change their message or their packaging and not really change any of their ideas. That scott walker, theres a sense that, okay, maybe this can be the guy who can successfully run on essentially the ryan budget and the mitt romney agenda. Yeah, well, hes the you know, hes the mitt romney who doesnt have a car elevator. You know, hes got this weird kind of bluecollar thing going now, and hes a victim because people have shouted terrible things outside their house. And, you know, i i saw this coming the night i was in milwaukee, the night he won his recall. I said, this guy is everything everybody thinks Chris Christie is. All Chris Christie has done is yell at the various bets noir of the republican party. This guys beaten them all. This guy has heads on his wall. And i thought that was a very compelling thing. The only thing i wondered about actually, there are two things i wonder about. Number one, why so many people who work for his campaign are going to jail. Number two, whether or not he could overcome this charisma deficit he obviously had, and he did that in iowa. And now i think people are looking at him as a serious contender. And yet in the last week, this is where i think, this is the peril that all republican frontrunners or establishment choices or whatever you want to call them are going to have. Which is, they believe it is impossible for them to survive a republican primary or not damage themselves by saying they believe in or they accept evolution as a theory of natural development, or that they, of course, think the president loves this country. Theres going to be one of these every week. And those are going to accrue. And theyre going to come back to haunt whoever it is who ends up with the nomination. Well, i mean, this is a chronic problem that goes no, that has gone back to at least 2008, where john mccain felt obligated to put sarah palin on the ticket to at least partly to appease these people. You know, we all saw what the clown car looked like in 2012. And it looks like in 2016, were going to have a clown suv. Im reminded also, when you talk about mccain, of there was that sort of iconic moment, remember, where at one of these town halls, these town halls were getting rowdier and rowdier and angrier and angrier, and someone basically got up and requested the president , at the time senator obamas patriotism, and john mccain basically put him in his place and said no you know, called him a muslim. Youre never going to see that in this version of the gop to me, that was the high point of the 2008 mccain campaign, was that moment with that woman, where he said, no, hes not, hes a Good American citizen, a fine family man, whatever. Okay. None of the guys or ladies who are rumored to be running for the republican nomination have those kind of stones. Its simply not viable anymore, given the fact that, you know, the size of the genie thats been let out of this bottle. Charlie pierce, as always, a pleasure. Stay warm up in boston. Thanks thanks, chris. All right. Good news for half a million walmart employees, plus more of my exclusive interview with the only official who ever went to prison in connection with the cias torture program, ahead. Theres recordbreaking cold across the country today. Its winter, so its supposed to be cold, but it is really cold. So cold that things like this are happening, we think, although there are some in the office who are skeptical this could actually happen, according to nbc meteorologist bill karins. This morning in barrow, alaska, the northernmost city in the u. S. , it was 13 degrees. In nashville, tennessee, it was 11, and it was 40 degrees in both juneau, alaska, and new orleans.