Weeks, but for months now. Its not only him. Its across the dial. Tony dokoupil on the campaign trail in wisconsin gets tonights last word. Thank you, tony. Chris hayes is up next. Tonight on all in. I expect that from a 12yearold bully on the playground. I did a retweet. It was a retweet by somebody else. Donald trumps welcome rocky to wisconsin. Do you stand by what you said about scott walker . I can say what i took out of Time Magazine. If Time Magazine is wrong, then they should apologize. How the badger state become the front lines of the stop trump movement. Why the Trump Campaign plans to file a legal complaint with the rnc. Bernie sanders won three states by a land slide. We have a path toward victory. Sanders backer tells me something that should worry team clinton. I think a lot of people are
sorry. I just cant bring myself to do that. Well tell you whos actually behind the petition to have guns at the Republican Convention when all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. There are two races under way in the republican president ial election. The one for the votes of citizens who actually go cast a primary ballot for the candidate of their choice. That race gets the big headline in the flashy Election Night coverage. That where campaigns post most of their energy and resources and we in the news media dissect every detail. After the candidates have moved on, the other race unfolds behind the scenes. Its the process of selecting the delegate, the real people and representatives to go to the Republican Convention this summer in cleveland. In the antitrump forces want any hope of stopping trump, this is the race they cannot lose. First race, the one playing out
in public is getting about to the magic number, 1237 delegates. Trump is still the only candidate within striking dance. Next primary is in wisconsin a week from tomorrow. Its winner take all which means the tiniest margins could decides whether he gets all 42 or nothing at all. Trump has already run into a buzz saw with wisconsins robust conservative establishment recently empowered by the political battle of the scott walker years. In a tough interview with Charlie Sykes, the republican frontrunner refused to apologize well about comments of ted cruz wife. The comments did not go over well. I failed in my effort to introduce you to wisconsin and tradition of civility and decency in wisconsin. I didnt start it. He started it. If he didnt start it, it would have never happened. Nothing like this would have
ever happened. He started it. Remember were not im fine with it. Were not on a playground. Were running for president of the United States. More in the battle for wisconsin is winner take most, not winner take all. Even after voters go to the polls next week, it wont be the end of the story, far from it. Thats when the second race, the behind the scenes race is just getting started. Louisiana, an ugly fight is now developing. Even though the state gop held the primary over three weeks ago it was a solid victory for trump who finished three points ahead of ted cruz. Last week they reported that cruz could win the delegate count potentially picking up the five delegates awarded to marco rubio. Trump threatened to sue on twitter which is a thing he likes to do. Today in an interview on msnbc, Senior AdvisorBarry Bennett said the Trump Campaign plans to follow through. The problem were having here
is theres a secret meeting in louisiana of a Convention Delegation and all the invitations for our delegates must have gotten lost in the mail. Ive been with our legal team most of the morning and were moving forward with the complaint to decertify these delegates. Thats only part of behind the scenes intrigue in louisiana and across the country. A week afterthe primary, the state gop convention, louisiana delegates elected representatives to the three rnc committees who will decide how things work in cleveland. It could, for instance, decide no one with the initials d. T. Can be the republican nominee. According to the journal, cruz supporters seized five of
louisianas six slots on the three crucial committees. If trumps opponents continue to sue that, all bets are off in july. If there are shenanigan, all of those millions of people that donald trump has brought into the arena are not going to stay there. The republicans are going to lose and its going to be not only the presidency, but the senate. It could even been the house. Its going to be destruction. Joining me is Barry Bennett of the Trump Campaign. Whats the lawsuit about . After the convention on sunday or this weekend, 27 of the 46 delegates got together and with a vote of 22 of the 27, they decided that the cruz
delegates should be on the rules committee and the Standing Committees except for one slot. Our delegate, 18 of them, the invitations must got lost in the mail. Ive heard you say that line before. Whats the legal problem with that . It is the party. Didnt you get caught napping or out hustled . The rules require that all delegates be gathered. Not just the ones that you think will vote the way you want to vote. Thats the first violation. Were going to move forward with certification challenge. They should have had a meeting with all the delegates. 22 votes shouldnt be deciding who gets the most powerful slots at the convention. Are you getting out hustled at the ground level because the Trump Campaign has so little on the ground organization, and so distant from the Institutional Republican Party . Four years ago louisiana had
problems as well. I dont think its a ground game problem for us. We have a pretty good team. Were moving around the country rapidly. When we find things like this, we are going to fight it. What happened here just wasnt on the up and up. Who is the ultimate authority here . The rnc. In some strict, important sense the party does decide its own nominee. If the party wants to screw you, they probably can. You can appeal to the delegates at the convention, but yes. Whats the strategy Going Forward here . You can file a lot of lawsuits but it seems like were running towards a situation like famously in 68, there were two slates of delegates from mississippi. There was the mississippi freedom democrats and the institutional mississippi party. Two sets of delegates showing up at rules meetings. Two sets of delegates trying to get behind closed door meetings . Its not horribly uncommon that you run into the problems going into the convention. I think its settled out right before the convention. We hope this is a rare occurrence and isnt repeated in other states. 22 people should not decide for 46 people. Donald trump has said that if he gets just below 1237, the magic number that signiies the number that it would lead to riots or unrest or tremendous disaffection. That number is there for a reason. It wasnt pulled out of thin air. Its just the majority of the delegates. Its majority plus one. Were going to get to 1237. Thats not a problem. After the last primary they have 40 days to woe the at will or free delegates. Then youve got the first three days of the convention before the ballots. Theres plenty of time to woe those who are willing to be woed. It will be the first ballot and it will be decided. Can i ask you why youre doing this . Doing what . Working for donald trump. Because i think washington needs a big time makeover. I think the Bernie Sanders supporters and the donald Trump Supporters have that in common. They both believe that the establishment in washington, both republican and democrat have done a lot to harm our country. We have two separate solutions, but we have a common problem. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Im joined by the former republican congressman who has experience at conventions. What do you think about the blithe assurances from mr. Bennett that they will get what they need . I think theres very slim chance that will happen. I think trump knows it. Thats why they are threatening to cause disturbances or riots at the convention because theyre afraid the rules will stand. He wants like any bully or any cry baby, what the Trump Campaign wants to do is say, maybe its a hundred yard dash. Maybe i wont get that far, but if i come close you ought to give it to me. He wants to change the rules. Theres a reason that there is that number. You have to reach that number. If you dont reach it, nobody reaches it, theres not a nominee. Then the convention decides who they want representing the Republican Party. This is what i cant decide. I love your insight. Is the constitutional Republican Party going to roll over and allow themselves to be bullied into a trump nomination even if the guy is getting 40, 50 , 45 , are or they going to do everything in their power at every marginal delegate make
sure they are taking delegates away from it . Theyre going to do everything in their power. This is not game. Were not talking about who gets the nomination of a club to run for president. Were talking about who could potentially be the president of the United States. The prospect of having somebody who knows so little, is so cavalier with the truth, so nasty and demeaning and potentially very damaging to our relationships around the world, you cant let somebody like that become president of the United States because, as your previous guest just said, we need change. Maybe we need change, but donald trump is not the change we need and the Republican Party knows that. Let me stop you for one second. You say the Republican Party knows that. What are you referring to specifically . What does that mean . Chris, theres been 32 conventions, caucuses, primaries held so far. Over 21 million votes have been cast. Overwhelming number of them, 60 of them against donald trump. For months and months its been donald trump versus not donald trump. The not donald trump votes have been all split up because theres so many candidates running. Every poll shows that donald trump is very unpopular with the party. The voters, the Republican Voters have rejected him by nearly six million votes that have gone against the margin between those two voted against him and for him. Thats why he should not be representing the Republican Party. Its been a very long time
since we had an open convention. 76 is sort of the closest. Does anyone know how to do this anymore . Are you confident it can exist without a determined nominee going into it . Sure. These people weve done there. Ive been to lots of conventions. We know how to run a convention. Its a lot more peaceful. A lot calmer if you already know who your nominee is before you get there and do a tv show. As it happens, this is serious business. Delegates know, the final say is in the hands of the delegate themselves. They can change the rules. They can keep the rules as they are. After the first ballot, they can vote for anybody they want. A lot of these people are Party Regulars who got assigned to vote for donald trump because he won their primary. That doesnt mean theyre for him. That is one of the things well find out as we get further in this process. Thank you very much. Thank you, chris. Still ahead, given everything we told you about the Republican Convention this july, do you think that allowing firearms into that cleveland arena would be a good idea . Why almost 50,000 people signed a petition saying go for it. It was a big weekend for Bernie Sanders. Well take a closer listen to one of the worst interviews donald trump has given this campaign. Thats two minutes away. Set your iphones and dont go anywhere. Take pictures of sunri. Its my job and its also my passion. But with my back pain i couldnt sleep. So i couldnt get up in time. Then i found aleve pm. Aleve pm is the only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12hour strength of aleve. For pain relief that can last into the morning. And now. Im back. Aleve pm for a better am. I think we shouldve taken a tarzan know where tarzan go tarzan does not know where tarzan go. Hey, excuse me, do you know where the waterfall is . Waterfall . No, me tarzan, king of jungle. Why dont you want to just ask somebody . If youre a couple, you fight over directions. Its what you do. If you want to save fifteen percent or more on Car Insurance, you switch to geico. Oh ohhhhh its what you do. Ohhhhhh do you have to do that right in my ear . Billions are spent to confuse and, dare i say it, flummox the american public. Save 16 on Car Insurance. Switch now. Well at compare. Com, we say enoughs enough. So weve created this mind boggling facility. Where were constantly scrutinizing millions of rates. Answering the question who has the lowest. Go to compare. Com, plug in some simple info and get up to 50 free quotes. Choose the lowest, and hit purchase. Its fast and easy. Compare. Com saving humanity from high insurance rates. To the problems were facing in this country. Senator ted cruz tonight challenging donald trump to a oneonone debate in wisconsin tomorrow night. The state with 42 delegates up for grabs in next weeks primary. Cruz has been pushing hard to win them campaigning across the state. A winning road map drawn by wisconsin governor and former 2016 president ial hopeful, scott walker in 2010, the same demographic thats driven trumps success so far. Walker won three times. Donald trump called into three separate conservative radio shows not realizing the worth kept secret in wisconsins primary is the radio hosts are hostile. Here are some of the awkward interview between trump and Charlie Sykes, a selfdescribed never trump guy. Since youre here in
wisconsin, last august you said some things about conservatives, the conservative revolution in scott walker. You said wisconsin is doing terribly. Its a deficit of 2. 2 billion. The schools are a disaster. The hospitals and education was a disaster. Mr. Trump, do you stand by that now that youre going to be talking to wisconsinites . I got that from Time Magazine. It was taken out of Time Magazine. You said it. Do you stand by what you said about scott walker . I can only say what i took out of Time Magazine. I took a story out of Time Magazine and the story was exactly what it said. Its false. They should apologize. I should apologize for reading Time Magazine. That was one portion of trumps first radio interview of the day. Gave two more interviews. The last one with conservative radio host Vicky Mckenna where he appeared to hang up on her. The National Enquirer is not respected. That article about the alleged fairs is well sourced as game of telephone. I didnt put it in. Somebody put it in. It wasnt me. How about this. How about wives and kids off limits . Thats okay. All you have to do is tell that to cruz. If i can get senator cruz on the program, i would say the same. Best of luck to you. I appreciate the time. Donald trump will be arriving in person, wisconsin just in time to make his endorsement. John, im fascinated by the way the entire walker machine sump as it is is mobilizing against trump. Is it surprising to you or is this what you would expect . Its not what we expected at the start of the race. Everybody thought scott walker would have his team mobilized behind it. When his campaign collapsed, it threw his coalition in different directions. A lot of legislatures went to marco rubio. Talk radio was kind of all over the place. As all these other candidates starts to drop out, you saw Charlie Sykes and a few other folks kind of start to edge stronger and stronger toward the cruz position. Theres no question now that talk radio is aligned with the walker or at least a lot of the walker legislative republican establishment behind cruz or encouraging cruz whether they have endorsed or not formally. Then you have the old school, Tommy Thompson strongly aligned with kasich. Trump has hardly anybody except
perhaps a good chunk of blue collar voters. I wonder how much the walker, looks like hes going to say hes not endorsing anyone or hes going to endorse, cruz because hes already saying cruz is the only way to beat trump. How much will that matter . Im not sure. Its a very complex game thats in play. Remember, wisconsin has been on an incredible roller coaster for the last five, six years. From the outside it looks like the republicans are a united grouping. Theres a will the of republicans who have not been all that enthusiastic about scott walker. They backed him when he was fighting the democrats and the unions, but now that youre in an internal fight, you have a complex division developing where some of the old school republicans, people like Tommy Thompson really want to have a republican nominee who can
potentially win the state in november. Theyre showing up with kasich. Then you have the walker people aligning a lot with talk radio and just trying to stop trump without a real vision of where they go next. Do you think that trumps lack of any actual sort of Institutional Support will spell his demise. This seems like this is a never trump landmark battle. Hes got nothing but just the degree to which he has genuine appeal to the base. Yes. This is a big deal. I think that one thing that hasnt been talked about enough is that donald trump has under polled in wisconsin from the start of this race. Hes always been weaker