Been raised. All in starts now. Good evening from new york. Im joy reid in for chris hayes. You are looking at live at the donald trump rally just outside of houston where the presumptive gop nominee is expected to take the stage shortly. As that room illustrates trump still has his passionate base of support. But hes an increasingly embattled candidate. One now facing a coordinated lastditch effort to deny him the nomination at the convention. All speak to the republican delegate leading that effort shortly. On the heels of his widely panned response to the orlando massacre, which included his repeated insinuation that president obama may sympathize with terrorists, trump is setting modern records for political toxicity. As politico puts it, his unpopularity without historical peer in the modern era of president ial campaigns. While Hillary Clinton is relatively unpopular for a president ial nominee, shes still polling better than trump, who polls suggest is intensely disliked by a majority of americans. Trump today tried to counter a slew of new polls showing clinton with a clear lead in the general election with this tweet. Spotlighting a poll that hes listed as having taken on june 16th, yesterday, with the words, thank you, americafirst. A couple of problems. First off the poll was actually conducted on may 10th, more than a month ago. Second, the poll actually shows clinton with a slight lead over trump, albeit within the margin of error. Meanwhile, the man ostensibly leading outreach to congress on trumps behalf in one of his earliest endorsers, representative duncan hunter, now the latest republican to distance himself from trump. Telling the hill, i am not a surrogate, i cant speak for anyone else but me. Everyones asking me to explain all of these things that he said. Some of these things i dont know what donald trump is thinking. House speaker paul ryan, whos often criticized trump and only grudgingly endorsed him, told meet the press hes not going to try to force any of his fellow republicans to back the presumptive nominee. You think it is that members and the House Republican conference, follow your conscience . Absolutely. The last thing i would do is tell anybody to do something thats contrary to their conscience. Of course i wouldnt do that. Look, believe me, chuck. I get this, this is a very strange situation. This is a very unique nominee. But i feel as a responsibility, institutionally as speaker of the house, i should not be leading some chasm in the middle of our party. You know what that would do . That would definitely knock us out of the white house. Its divided and im not going to tell somebody to go against their conscience. Conscience is an operative word there. A group of republican delegates is organizing a new effort to stop trump at the Gop Convention next month. And conscience is their organizing principle. The effort centers around changing the Convention Rules to include a conscience clause that would allow delegates bound to trump to vote against him even on the first ballot at the convention. The group gathered 30 interested activist delegates and alternate delegates on a Conference Call last night to talk through their efforts with a followup call for delegates nationwide planned for this sunday. This literally is an anybody but trump movement, organizer Kendall Unruh told washington post. Trump himself dismisses the threat billing the post any such move would not only be totally illegal but also a rebuke of the millions of people who feel so strongly about what i am saying. Joining me is Kendall Unruh. A High School Government teacher, republican delegate from colorado, member of the rules committee, importantly, who support ted cruz in the primary and is coordinated that stop trump effort. Kendall, lets talk through your plan. In order for it to work we spoke with one of our favorite experts here at nbc to sort of explain how it works. You need a majority of the 112member rules committee to go along with your conscience clause that would allow someone to say, i cant in good conscience or religious reasons vote for donald trump. Do you have the votes . Not only religious but also personal. And i am working daily on getting the votes and i have a very good group of rules committee members. In fact, two called me right before this and they have signed on. But more importantly, even if it doesnt get the majority vote to pass out of rules committee, i can also file a minority report with a lower threshold of 25 . Let me be very Crystal Clear and address what donald trump is saying its illegal . Its actually illegal to bind a delegate. There have been two Supreme Court cases and there have been 200 historical precedents that have made that case. Out of 136year history in the Republican Party, there have actually only been one convention in 1976, ford reagan, where the delegates were truly bound. For him to say its illegal, technically its unconstitutional to bind. And the fact that the Supreme Court cases actually have ruled the fact that the state cannot interfere in the private organization and the fact of how they conduct their business. Imagine bringing this down to a local level if the state was to be able to dictate how a homeowners board voted, how a board to a Soccer League voted. They just simply cant interfere. So hes 100 wrong on that. But the rule that im going to be sponsoring is not giving the binding to the delegates. I am sponsoring this for a very specific purpose. The delegates already have the constitutional right to be unbound. I am drafting the rules sponsoring the conscience clause where they can opt out of their own free will and free choice for religious or personal reason because there are rule followers in the Republican Party. This is going after the activists that, when they are being pressured by the delegation chair or the state chairman or an elected official, fill in the blank, its giving them the tool, the empowerment, i call it the permission slip for mom at home that they can then literally tangibly hold and it say, honestly i cant unbind because heres an rnc rule saying that i cant. Right. Like giving them in essence the kryptonite that they need. Spoken like a true public schoolteacher. They need a permission slip. I want to go back ask walk you back one second. My understanding is when you become a delegate to either of the conventions you actually sign an agreement to be bound by whoever wins that vote in your state. Are you saying that there is no such agreement that delegates actually sign when they become delegates to the convention . Well, we all sign pledges. I signed a pledge to vote for ted cruz. And all of our delegation actually voted for ted cruz. And in spite of the false narrative that donald trump wove that we werent dutifully elected, we actually were dutifully elected. I had to convince thousands of voters to vote for me. I had to go through not one, not two, five elections to get where im at. The point is im actually accountable to my constituents and those who sent me. If i choose to not honor that pledge, which i will be for ted cruz, but if i choose to not honor for any reason and i vote a vote of conscience, im accountable to them and them only. Im not accountable to the party, not accountable to hi delegation chair. Theyre the ones that entrusted me with their vote. That is a discussion that actually a delegate needs to take into consideration if they choose to unbind. And that is how are the people at home that sent me here going to respond . But i can tell you, i hear daily from my constituents who voted to send me here to keep going down the path that i am going down. So i actually have an honor and an obligation to carry the water for them with the vote that they entrusted in me. Except that for you, in your case, you were for ted cruz, and i imagine the constituents you talk to are for ted cruz. If delegates are from a state that voted for donald trump how would they justify saying their religious or personal convictions are leading them to go against the voters of their state . How would somebody be able to justify that . Thats a great question. Here comes the schoolteacher part. Im sorry that for 40 years that we have had curricula that have taught that we ar democracy. Were actually not a democracy. Theres never one man, one vote. Thats a good thing, that mob rule, 50 plus one, cant dictate an outcome. Because our Founding Fathers were very clear that there are to be checks and balances in this Constitutional Republic that they started. And the system thats been implemented is a direct reflection of that, that you are entrusting a delegate. Were not a number, were not a robot. We are someone who literally has that entrustment with us to cast a vote how we see fit, reflective of the will of the people. But lets just Say Something did come out that a candidate had done some criminal activity or something that was just morally reprehensible. Right. The fact that a delegate is carrying a vote, they are entrusted with a person trusting them to use their wisdom and to apply it in a circumstance to where its truly unpalatable to cast that vote. That is part of what this Constitutional Republic is all about. Really quickly, were out of time, but a quick compound question very briefly. Number one, weve heard that Reince Priebus is reaching out to some delegates to sort of poll them, see how many are a part of this. Have you heard from Reince Priebus and has there been any backlash to what youre trying to do or do you worry about back lash . Sure, theres always going to be backlash, any time you go against the party and you stand up for whats right in principle. And this is truly trying to save the party. We love our party, weve worked extraordinarily hard our entire adult lives to create a philosophical, very good conservative party, we simply dont want donald trump as the face of that party. Have you heard from Reince Priebus . I have not but ive heard from other elected officials. That just makes me work harder and makes the rest of us work harder. We know were right in what we do. Thank you for your time. Joining me are two members of the never trump movement, former Campaign Manager for carly fiorina, and rick wilson. Wick, you first. You are the never trumpiest never trumpist that i know of out there, particularly on social media and in real life. What do you think of what Kendall Unruh just said . She feels delegates would put aside even a majority vote for donald trump in their delegate district. Isnt that counterdemocratic, small d . As kendall rightly pointed out, i admire the work shes trying to do here to save the party from the inside. Were seeing an increasingly erratic and dangerous version of donald trump who is going to lead this party over a cliff and is going to lead us into not into the Promised Land as cheat cheeto jesus but into a political nightmare. Folks are trying to save the party and the movement from this guy and the fact of the matter is youre not obligated to carry out an illegal order. Youre not obligated to commit suicide as a party or as a Political Movement by backing a guy who is so obviously unsuitable as president , who is obviously mentally unstable, and obviously not running a Serious Campaign against Hillary Clinton. If you want to beat Hillary Clinton, you cant do it with a guy who doesnt call donors. You cant do it with a guy who spouts off whatevers in his mind at any given second. This is a guy who is not running as a qualified republican candidate. He got 30some percent of the vote. But these delegates have to look at the broader picture, at the survival of the Republican Party, and the fact that donald trump is continuing to do everything that donald trump does off the top of his head, the spur of the moment, whatever is in his head comes out of his mouth, thats going to damage the party more than a floor fight over whether these the qualified candidate or not. If those folks vote their conscience and abstain, god bless them, theyve been the work of preserving the republic. Sarah said there would be the potential for actual unrest, if supporters of donald trump feel robbed and in this case they would be being actually robbed of the nomination that he earned through delegates . I think thats right. I think that it would cause chaos. Im on team kendall, god bless the work shes doing. And i think that rick has it exactly right on why its important. I do think that at this point, even though the whole delegate process is meant to be one of a republic, not a democracy, that it is late to try to upend his nomination at this point. I think weve seen groups talk about how feasible it is to have a thirdparty candidate still in terms of the ballot access. No one has stepped up to do that yet. I am all in favor of these lastditch efforts to stop donald trump from getting the nomination. I do think it will be devastating for the party when he does. But i think its going to be an uphill battle, unfortunately. Not only that, apart from the idea of actual potential unrest, maybe even violence at the convention, if you are literally telling delegates who showed up on the floor to vote for donald trump, now you dont have to do it, then the people who voted, millions who voted for donald trump, see that happen. What will be the fallout for the Republican Party then . Look, were already having a schism in the Republican Party, joy. Theres already now a what is essentially a White Nationalist trump party and a Republican Party which is a conservative limited government constitutional party. They are fracturing right now. He is the chemistry thats fracturing that formula. Hes causing this rift. But the fact of the matter is, were going to have this fight regardless. Whether its on the Convention Floor or whether its after donald trump destroys our hopes of holding taking the white house and destroys our hopes of holding the senate. Were going to be in a situation where we have to face up to the fact that donald trump has activated a part of the Republican Base that is very enthusiastic about him, submerged in a talk radio cloud where they believe hes going to build a wall, hes going to shut off all the trade from international trade, hes going to bomb the oil, hes going to torture people and kill terrorist families, they believe all that. Thats your base. They believe all that in part because the conservative establishment, media and otherwise, has been telling them that for 30 years. Donald trump didnt inveent these ideas. Arent you essentially dissing a large part of the Republican Base that wasnt created by donald trump, hes just taking advantage of it . Donald trump is a unique selling proposition in this equation. No one else could come along with the 20 years of reality tv stardom, the private jet, the trumpian swagger they found so appealing, they wanted to rub up against the alpha male donald trump, all this stuff. None of that was available or about any other candidate. And frankly, he activated a very narrow part of the base, a very small part of the electorate, 33 . The remainder of the Republican Party was looking for another option. They were looking for a constitutional conservative. Whether it was ted cruz or marco rubio or rand paul or jeb bush or whoever else in the field, they were looking for another option. Really quickly, sarah, we have to wrap. If john mccain had won the presidency in 2008, donald trump would have won the nomination for the Democratic Party this year. I doubt that. Hes not a republican, hes an entertainer. Hes sui generis i doubt that hed be the nominee of the Republican Party. Thats an interesting hypothetical, but hes your guy, hes the republican nominee, sarah flores and rick wilson, thank you both, appreciate it. Still ahead, we will keep an eye on that live trump rally happening now in texas. If he responds to the reporting that you just heard, we will make sure to bring that to you live. Plus chris hayes sat down with the director of the new series o. J. made in america telling the story in an entirely new way. First, Bernie Sanders stays in as democrats turn their focus on the general election. At this point, does sanders have any leverage at all . Well talk about that in about two minutes. Jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive jake reese, day to feel alive senator Bernie Sanders will return to washington to cast votes on gun measures on monday. His first vote since the primary season ended. His first vote since the nonsuspension of his Campaign Speech that he gave last night. More on that in a moment. Today senator Elizabeth Warren visited the headquarters of the Presumptive Democratic president ial nominee, Hillary Clinton, in brooklyn. This is fabulous warren reportedly there to deliver a pep talk to the staff. According to a source speaking to nbc news, senator warren said, dont screw this up, which prompted this enthusiast to tweet, so excited that warren is with us, we will not f it up. The contrast between senator warren and senator Bernie Sanders last night could not be more stark. Warren bursting into Clinton Campaign headquarters in brooklyn, sanders delivering a retr