On the Baltimore Police department when all in starts right now. Good evening from new york, im chris hayes. Today a brief respite for donald trump of all the coverage about Second Amendment people acting to stop Hillary Clinton. Instead, for a few hours, all eye on trump tower where a climber was in the process of scaling the glass face of the building, using suction cups and other equipment. Police opened up a window lying in the climbers path and were eventually able to pull him inside to safety. There he goes. Hes strapped in, folks. Made it to at least the 16th floor, we believe. That interlude is unlikely to take the heat off trump for his opaque and incendiary comments yesterday. Hillary wants to abolish essentially abolish the Second Amendment. By the way, if she gets to pick if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, i dont know. But but ill tell you what, that will be a horrible day. True to form, trump and his campaign had refused to apologize or even acknowledge the issue, insisting against the logic of the words themselves that those comments were merely a call to political action. What were talking about is political power. Theres tremendous political power to save the Second Amendment. Tremendous. And you look at, you know, you look at the power they have in terms of votes and thats what i was referring to. Obviously thats what i was referring to. What trump said was apparently troubling enough to make the secret service sit up and take notice. They said they were aware of what trump had said. Today, according to one report, they spoke to the campaign more than once on the topic. Trump later tweeted that no such meeting or conversation ever happened, calling it a madeup story. This on the same day that Hillary Clinton rushed to protect Hillary Clinton on the stage at a rally in iowa. After a protester hopped a barricade. Now, Donald Trumps intentions have been at the enter of a fire storm over his comments. In an interview this morning, Rudy Guiliani argued the crowds reaction proved that what trump said about clinton is benign. What he intended is very, very simple. What he intended was, they should vote against her. I guess thats the question. With a crowd like that, if thats what they thought he meant, theyd have gone wild. They would have gone wild . Perhaps he missed the man in the red shirt, reacting with a genuinely shocked expression. In an interview today, that same man described what was going through his mind in the room at that moment. I was thinking exactly what i said to my neighbor, connie, and that was, i cant believe he said it. The media will have a field day with this one. Down here in the south, we dont curse in front of women. We dont drink liquor in front of the preacher, and we dont make jokes like that in public. But it was clear to my mind, and the people around me, that he was trying to make a joke. A joke. Not an appeal for gun advocates to get politically motivated, but a joke about taking up arms against representatives of the u. S. Government. That seems to be more or less how paul ryan interpreted trumps comments, despite, he says, not having seen the tape. Ive been busy today. I heard about this Second Amendment quote. It sounds like just a joke gone bad. I hope it clears it up quickly. You should never joke about Something Like that. Every day more republicans are breaking with their partys nominee. Florida sitting congressman ileana Ross Leighton said she plans to write in jeb bush, whom she supported in the primary. It all seems to be taking a toll on donald trump, if his appearance in virginia is any indication. Though he hit many of his talking points, his speech seemed much more subdued, even low energy, if you will. What is going on, folks, with our leaders . And with our leader in particular. He is grossly incompetent. He said it matters less what he meant and more what people heard. Thomas freedman compares his comments to the volatile rhetoric in israel, leading up to the assassination ofities ak rabin in 1995. Quote, there are always people down the line who dont hear the caveats, only the message. You know what we do with people like that, dont you . We kill them. Freedman closes with some dramatic language. People are playing with fire here, and theres no bigger flame thrower than donald trump. Forget politics, he is a disgusting human being. His children should be ashamed of him. Joining me now, Trump Campaign surrogate, steve cortez. Steve, whats your i have to say, i have an idea for you guys about an explanation of this quote, and its killing me you guys arent using it. So first, let me ask you what your spin on this quote is. Well, listen, my spin on this quote is, this is much ado about nothing. The media has tried time and again to take anything that donald trump says, that is at all pronounced in an inelegant manner and attach the most malicious and nefarious intent possible to that quote. What he said was, and it was clear to me, and most americans, Second Amendment people and im one of them, a member of the nra, that Second Amendment people will use their power, not their fire power, their political power to do what . To try to make sure Hillary Clinton isnt president , or if she is, she doesnt use the power to destroy the Second Amendment. The second one, thats the thing. He was talking hillary wants to abolish the Second Amendment. By the way, if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks, period. At that point in the train of thought, hillarys been elected and shes appointed a judge. He goes on to say, although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, i dont know. So it cant be about voting. Can we establish that, in the logic i understand your point. As a trump surrogate i have to come on the air and defend quite often things that are said by may candidate. Even though i love him and support him, hes an outsider, he still speaks inelegantly at times or imprecisely. But in this case, im going to defend him to the wall, because what it means is, even if shes president , we, meaning republicans, may very well control the senate. She doesnt just appoint Supreme Court justices, they have to be approved by the senate. Yes, yes and nra and people like me, volume fight they said it was about voting, even though its not what it was about. Let me recommend that to my bosses at trump tower, please. Have you ever had someone with a bad roommate and then nine bad roommates and at the end of it, you think maybe youre the bad roommate. If youre a person who is constant misinterpreted and misunderstood, maybe theres something wrong with how youre communicating. Is that a plausible theory of the case . I hear your point, but im going to reject it on this basis. I think right now, what we see in the mainstream media, the elites that occupy newsrooms of new york and washington, d. C. Dont understand at all what is going on they dont understand the real talk of a billionaire real estate mogul is what youre saying. They dont understand the fly of the country like donald trump does. Isnt it ironic that a new york billionaire is the one who resonates so well with regular americans. Its a massive country that is political misunderstood by political elites and media elites. Because of that, sometimes we smear when we fear. They fear a popular uprising, via the ballot box, not via fire power. People do fear the use of arms to circumvent politics. Nbc news poll had 72 of registered republicans, they doubt president obamas citizenship. Whats your feeling about that . Well, i think thats ridiculous. Thats a nonsense diversion. Weigh dont need to Pay Attention to that. His citizenship is settled . Hes an american. Lets focus on his record, though. Were making so much progress here. Thank you very much. Im going to quit while were ahead. Steve cortez, thank you for your time tonight. Appreciate it. Thank you, sir. Joining me now, former special agent for the u. S. Secret service. So you worked in the secret service 13 years, if im not mistaken. 13 years. You know, sure, like any statement, you could go back and retro actively interpret it. Whats your read on this . I think the big issue here is whether he meant it or not meant it, words do matter. So when you have that platform, you have to be careful what you say to people. And its also how are other people going to interpret it . So he may say, i didnt mean that and that may be true, but the person listening to you, that audience, what are they interpreting. Everyones debating this, did he mean one thing, right, he meant do harm to hillary. Is oth others are saying, no, no, thats not what he meant. Were thinking about people who have logically, who dont have Mental Health issues. A lot of the threats against vips, they would come from people with mental issues or an emotionally disturbed person. So how is that person going to interpret that . This is the key thing. Like, folks, you gotta take care of her, someones gotta do something. You could say, wow, you gotta vote, you gotta write theres ways in which the meaning in that room in particular. Heres a snapshot of what the atmosphere in these rallies is like courtesy of the new york times. Take a listen. [ bleep ]. [ bleep ]. [ bleep ]. That was folks saying killer, hang the b word. It seems to me, from the perspective of being employed to guarantee her safety, that matters. It absolutely matters. Look at the gatherings were having and all the violence thats breaking out. This is one of the most president ial candidacies weve received. So now were worried about her safety. I can almost guarantee that were willing to see a spike somewhat, i dont know how big, but you will see a spike in threats that are going towards hillary at this point. You think so . I would think so. Im speaking from strategically a security objective standpoint. When you make these comments, people are going to hear them and its as if theyre giving them permission to do that. You dont know how theyre going to interpret it. This is dangerous. It creates volatility, youre going to have some people come out, but the secret service is probably going to be dealing with a lot more threats. Or people with special interests, towards hillary. Whats protocol . Do you think secret service had a conversation with him . Conversation hes got a detail. Just his own detail toalking to him . Yes, it does happen. They may not feel comfortable to say anything, because they want to stay out of the politics. Their job is security. They dont want to influence one way or another, but you can almost be sure that internally, theyre having discussions. They may not have spoken to him directly, but talked to his staff and his people. Those conversations are happening anyway because of the logistics of what they have to do. Youre traveling with him, state to state to state. Youre with these people, you understand their intentions. He doesnt mean specific threat more than likely, but if he did, we would know about it. But he needs to be careful, he cant make those comments. Joined by matt tie eastboundy, from rolling stone. Its just how much precedent theres been in winking and nudging and all of this stuff with david duke, like, i dont know who david duke is. Theres this constant semantic, threecard monty hes playing, always. Right. Like, you saw this, i didnt mean that. But time and time again, it feels like its not just an accident. I think any reporter whos covered trump a lot over the last year will tell you this is a pretty tried and true rhetorical device that he resorts to quite a lot. Theres a professor who talked about a trope that he uses which is parellipsis, which is bringing something up by not saying. And he does that over and over again. One of the more famous instances was the incident where somebody called ted cruz the p word, remember that in New Hampshire . He said, oh, thats terrible. Say that again. And then had the person say it. And he jokingly walked away from the microphone, like, oh, you. This is part of his character. Hes playing a Reality Tv Show character and this is part of what his role does. And its worked for him before. Its allowed him to get certain messaging out there in the media without taking direct ownership of them. This was a particularly irresponsible use of that particular rhetorical device and its a real line that hes crossed that he may not even have been aware of. Thats exactly it. Its interesting, the campaign understood the line. It was a bad, irresponsible joke. Also a slander at Second Amendment people. Like you guys are all crazy nuts its a weird thing to say if you believe the Second Amendment people are peaceful, law abiding not only that. Its catastrophically stupid politics. Had he not made those comments, think about what the lead news story would be today. Rudy guiliani is right, but the Clinton Foundation story would be the lead story today because its a real story and its going to be drowned out by the Second Amendment story for the next couple days, because its just so inflammatory and so explosive. I think also, the other thing i think about, how common like weve had over the course of american history, its been a very violent country and politics have been very violent. Of course. 10 of president s, i think, have been assassinated or nearly assassinated, of the ones weve had. Weve seen the Political Violence in this country, so you always feel this ominous thing offstage. Sometimes not offstage. In this campaign, particularly around trump rallies, and thats the other context to me that sort of gave this its sure, again, as someone whos covered a lot of campaigns over the years, ive felt this more and more as campaigns have gone on in recent years. You know, any group of people, in any crowd, there are always going to be mentally ill people. But in any group of americans, theres going to be a sizeable percentage of people who are just dumb. Of all human beings. But you mix that in with anger and resentment and this growing sense of powerlessness and the room feeling. Right. That was the thing that struck me so much on the night when Chris Christie gave his speech at the rnc, the lock her up, guilty, guilty. It felt like you were in a witch trial. You could feel the crowd surging with the energy of that unified contempt. Think about what the message of Donald Trumps campaign is. Your leaders in both parties have not been advocating for you. This is the only way you can get something done. They stab you in the back. Right. And now i may lose, so you must act alone. And thats a powerful message. Terrifying. Thank you, we appreciate it. Coming up, Hillary Clinton is making a play for a state democrats havent won since 1964. But first, donald trump says hes a straight shooter, so why is he always clarifying his past statements. Take a tour through his most convoluted and false explanations next. For partners in health, time is life. We have 18,000 people around the world. The microsoft cloud helps our entire staff stay connected and Work Together in real time to help those that need it. The ability to collaborate changes how we work. What we do together changes how we live. If you then youll know howuth, uncomfortable it can be. But did you know that the lack of saliva can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath . Well, there is biotene, specially formulated with moisturizers and lubricants. Biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healthy too. Biotene, for people who suffer from a dry mouth. Tonight we find yourself yet again litigating the meaning of Donald Trumps words after the president ial nominee said something shocking and offensive. For someone who suggested that president obama should be disqualified from office for not using the right words, like this tweet from june. Is president obama going to finally mention the words radical islamic terrorism . If he doesnt, he should resign in disgrace. Trump will Say Something wildly inappropriate, reactions, headlines follow. Trump will argue thats nots what he meant. When he accused megyn kelly of having blood coming out of her wherever, trump replied, only a deviant would think that. Trump says he was only imitating a reporter groveling. After trump told my colleague that women who have abortions should be punished, he later said its the doctors who should be punished. Or a few weeks ago, when he called on russia to find and hack Hillary Clintons email. Russia, if youre listening, i hope youre able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. Following swift backlash over those comments and accusations of flirtations with treason for inviting a Foreign Government to hack secretary clintons emails, trump said he was being sarcastic and was questioning whether or not they already had hacked her email. I could go on and on, with him saying his words were misinterpreted. But heres the thing, a big part of the job as president is to communicate effectively, and even if you give him the benefit of the doubt on each occasion, hes failing that test. What do you mean by that, josh . This story, like all of these is exhausting. Because you feel like were fighting over sentence structure. That and ultimately youre fighting over whats inside Donald Trumps head. You can never prove what he was thinking. You can make strong arguments, but if he said i didnt mean that, you can never prove he was wrong. But it doesnt matter. Thats why its so silly, all this sentence diagramming. So long as he is being unclear and inflammatory to so many people, that is disqualifying for him to be the presi