He even went on to say officials collected information from the president which, of course, sounds like a big deal, right . Except for some huge asterisk. Nunes said the new information did not contradict his earlier statement that president obama did not order a wine tap of trump and that the communications were intercepted legally and collected incidentally which would suggest that trump and his allies were not the target of the surveillance. Nunes refused to say where he got this information, referring only to sources and, amazingly, he then went to the white house to brief the president on what he knew and hold another press conference. Keep in mind, nunes is supposed to be leading the house investigation into Trump Campaigns relationship to russia, not telling the possible subjects of that investigation what he knows. In fact, if nunes did, in fact, learn that communications involving Trump Officials have been intercepted incidentally, he should probably be pretty curious, even perhaps concerned about who exactly they were talking to. Nunes actions left veteran congressional observers as well as Many Democrats absolutely gobsmacked. Because nunes did not even tell the top democrat of his own committee, representative adam schiff, what he supposedly knows. I can say this. The chairman will need to decide whether he is the chairman of an independent investigation into conduct which includes allegations of potential coordination between the Trump Campaign and the russians or he is going to act as a surrogate of the white house because he cannot do both. And unfortunately i think the actions of today throw great doubt into the ability of the chairman and the committee to conduct the investigation the way it ought to be conducted. Earlier this evening, republican senator john mccain told nbc news he was taken aback by the actions of nunes. What this is now really, greta, is a requirement for a select committee. I believe the Intelligence Committee in the senate between senator warner and senator burr, but this shows a tremendous chasm between the two senior members of the house Intelligence Committee. What we need is a select committee. No longer does the congress have credibility to handle this alone and i dont say that lightly. Meanwhile, after saying sunday the evidence regarding possible Trump Campaign collusion with russia was circumstantial, schiff went a step further. All you have right now is a circumstantial case. Actually, no, chuck. I can tell you that the case is more than that and i cant go into the particulars but there is more than circumstantial evidence now so, again, i think so you have seen direct evidence of collusion . I dont want to go into specifics but i will say there is evidence that is not circumstantial and is very much worthy of investigation so that is what we ought to do. Joining me now, democratic senator ben cardin, Ranking Member of the Senate Committee of foreign relations. The house intelligence chair says a source has confirmed that the possibility or that it was the case that transition and perhaps the president were swept up incidentally in surveillance, he doesnt say who the source is, he goes to the white house to brief the president , comes forward and tells the press without telling the Ranking Member, what is your reaction to that set of actions taken by devin nunes today . This is hard to understand how a person could get confidential information and have a press conference, not talk to the ranking democrat of the committee, release that information to the white house and hes supposed to be doing an independent investigation. I agree with senator mccain, there is no credibility in the ability to hold an independent investigation by the house Intelligence Committee. I go one step further, though. I think we need an independent commission made up of fulltime experts that can look at all the aspects of this russian connection to the United States and be able to give a full report to the American People and congress but its clear to me the way the house is conducting their investigation by releasing this information is just outrageous. When you talk about an independent commission do you think theres any bipartisan support for that kind of thing . Well, we know that when we were attacked after 9 11 we had strong bipartisan support for an independent commission. We had an independent commission and it brought out changes we needed to do in our government to keep us safe. With this attack of russia against our free election system we need a similar commitment and to me a Bipartisan Commission is the only way you can get the credible investigation that will give the American People confidence that we really are taking this issue seriously. Obviously things work differently in the house than they do in the senate. But youve been in the senate long enough to have been on both sietsds of the majority and minority. For those of us that do not work in the United States congress, what would it mean for the chair to do Something Like this without telling the Ranking Member . Ive never heard of this done before, ever. Ive been involved in a lot of Sensitive Information with the Ranking Member, with the chairman and i have never heard of this being done before. There is an unwritten rule that you dont go to the press without having conversation with your counterpart on the other partys side, the Ranking Member or the chairman. Thats the way you do business. It really undermines the credibility of the confidence of the committee that the chairman is interested in the investigation. You also have to say, the president came forward to say basically that the tweet storm that has famously sent all of washington searching for its justification that this was essentially a validation of what he said. What do you make of that . Im not surprised by the president s comment. He interprets anything he wants the way he wants to interpret it. But its absolutely clear. It was absolutely clear russia used Cyber Attacks to try to influence our election candidate trump and President Trump was very late to endorse that finding. Its very clear there was no wiretap on trump by the obama administration, that has been clearly established and mr. Trump is going to be late in accepting that finding but the findings are what they are and mr. Trump will use the information in a way that suits him but its not the fact. Senator ben cardin, appreciate that, thank you. Im joined by matt miller, former spokesperson for attorney general eric holder. What is your reaction to the actions of chairman nunes today . Astonished. I have never seen a Committee Chairman come out in front of the press and pour gasoline on himself and light himself on fire, which is basically what he did. If you look at what he did today he, one, potentially leaked classified information. Two, he compromised the investigation his committee is supposedly conducting by briefing the president on it, and, three, he completely ruined his own credibility and exposed himself as a partisan shill and it was all for no reason. The thing he came out and revealed doesnt even back up what the president said in his original tweet so its hard to know what he was trying to accomplish. The only thing he did today with this kind of stunt is add more credibility, more voice to the calls for an independent commission which you now see senator mccain joining the calls for. I want to start with the first thing you said because it struck me as well that a huge part of the testimony before that House Committee with comey and rogers the other day, from the republican side, focused on leaks. If it is the case that incidental surveillance were to have swept up people in the Transition Office or the president himself, i assume thats probably classified information. That seems fairly closely held. So for the chairman to for the republicans to spend all day monday to talk about leaks, i was astonished he would come forward and disclose that if it is in fact true. Its absolutely classified information. Its obviously classified. That hearing was a real disaster for them on monday because it didnt just you didnt just have the two big headlines from it, one that the white house is under federal criminal investigation and, two what trump said about wiretapping was completely false but you saw the republican members talk about leaks in a way you know, when you have the fbi director say were investigating whether members of the president s campaign conducted treason and the only questions you can ask are about leaks it already made them look really bad so for them to come out today and then not only continue to look like he has no interest in investigating the underlying charges but then to come out and leak classified information himself shows what a mockery they were really making of that hearing on monday. You were the spokesperson at the department of justice and you noted today earlier i saw you notice that theres something improper fundamentally about the chair of this Committee Going the first thing hes doing with the information he received to brief the white house which, again, is at the center of the entity that is currently, as we know, as confirmed by james comey, being investigated. Yeah, thats exactly right. Its important because there arent its not just that nunes hurt the credibility of his own investigation, depending on what it is that he has, what it is that his source came and told him, if its something that relates to the investigation that the fbi is conducting and he went and briefed the president on that, and that goes to other people in the white house, including people that may be under investigation, it could compromise that investigation. Its absolutely another way and what he did is just so inappropriate. So far outside the bounds of what he should be doing as a Committee Chairman. Matt miller, thank you. Thank you. All that is just one part of the larger story around the Trump Campaigns potential ties to russia. Tonight, new explosive revelations about President Trumps former Campaign ManagerPaul Manafort who the Associated Press reported today was secretly working for a russian billionaire a decade ago to advance the interests of vladimir putin, eventually signing a contract paying him 10 million a year for his work. Manafort proposed in a confidential Strategy Plan as early as june, 2005, that he would influence politics, business dealings and News Coverage inside the United States. Europe and the former soviet republics to benefit the putin government the a. P. Reported. In a statement, manafort responded i do not work for the russian government. Once again, smear and innuendo are being used to paint a false picture. Trumps connection to manafort dates back to the 1980s when trump hired manaforts lobbying firm to fight the expansion of indian casinos and change the flight path of airplanes over maralago. Manafort would go on to buy a condo in trump tower and last march trump hired manafort as adviser and promoted him to chief strategist and Campaign Chairman giving him control of Daily Campaign operations. I have fantastic people, manafort just came on. Hes great. He doesnt have to do this, like i dont have to. He didnt need to do this but he wanted to. Manafort was fired in august after ledgers surfaced suggesting he may have accepted more than 12 million in undisclosed Cash Payments from a prorussian Political Party in ukraine. At the time, trumps allies lauded manaforts contribution. I thought paul did an important job in getting through the convention and getting the campaign more of a national campaign, more of a professional campaign. Nobody should underestimate how much Paul Manafort did to help with this campaign to where it is right now. This week White House PressSecretary Sean Spicer claimed manafort had played a very limited role in the campaign. And today spicer cast manafort as little more than a delegate wrangler who, was involved in the campaign who was involved just under five months. Thats two months longer than the famous and controversial steve bannon. Spicer had this to say. Can you say today with certainty that manafort never tried to pressure or encourage the campaign to take on a more prorussian position on any issues . Not that im aware of, i cant but theres nothing that suggests that that was the case. Spicer was also asked if he could say with certainty that no one in the white house is working in the interests of a foreign government. I can tell you that every form has been filled out that it reporter so you trust absolutely. Youve got to i mean, people are filling out forms, to sit here and ask me whether i can vouch for whatever it is, a few hundred people that have filled out everything, you know, that would be ridiculous for me to stand here and suggest that i possibly could. Joining me now, olivia nuzzi, washington correspondent for new york city magazine. That answer was so interesting to me. It was definitely interesting. Of course i can vouch for the honesty of the people that work for us that they havent lied on their forms and are not working as foreign agents. When asked if he could assure the public theres no foreign agents working in the white house, his response instead was they have filled out the forms. Its like bad satire. I cant believe that that was his answer on something so important. Hes probably concerned like a lot of people right now of saying something incorrect and later being proven to be wrong so i dont blame sean spicer but its shocking to see him not be able to answer that question. Watching them try to minimize the role of manafort is somewhat absurd because we were all there during the campaign but one other thing thats come through is this is not a relationship with manafort that started during the campaign. It extends much further back than that. Not only in the 80s when trump hired him but manafort is a longtime associate of roger stone whos known trump since the 1970s. They were all friends with royko hen who is trumps political mentor. So its absurd to suggest manafort was a minor intern on the campaign herding delegates when he was an instrumental part of it. It was only five month, sure, but the campaign was not that long in general so five months was quite a large chunk of the campaign and he was an instrumental part of the campaign. They hired him not only to heard delegates but to professionalize the operion. Remember, trump didn have any establishment figures working for him. He had people like Corey Lewandowski who had never been part of president ial campaigns before so manafort, he was seen as someone who would come in and professionalize trump and bring in this president ial donald trump who obviously never arrived in the end. And not only that, the reporting youve done and others indicates that and this i think is crucial, is that his relationship to the campaign didnt end after he lost his job. In fact, reporting he was a key figure behind the scenes during the transition. In november at the daily beast where i worked at the time i reported along with my colleague that two sources confirmed to us that Paul Manafort was working on the transition, was advising on Personnel Matters and was in direct contact not only with president elect trump at the time but also with Vice President elect mike pence almost in daily contact with him so its absurd for anyone to suggest he just sort of vanished right when he left the campaign in august and also remember he was not paid by trump during the campaign so its difficult to be able to measure during which period he was working for the campaign. Remember we can track Corey Lewandowskis involvement with the campaign after he had formally left the campaign because we saw the payments still going to his firm but we never got that with Paul Manafort so for all we know hes still talking to donald trump. We dont have any solid facts about this. I want to highlight one thing in the manafort statement to the a. P. Because i think its worth pointing out to people. The a. P. Reports that he had a contract with an oligarch closely aligned to putin who paid him to further the interest of putin. The denial that came from Paul Manafort in which he called it smears and innuendo, he said i never worked for the russian government which is not the allegation made in the reporting. Thats a minor fact. Its ridiculous and i think hes expecting people to just sort of accept that answer and to not press him further and hope it will go away, maybe something more important will happen and all of our attentions will be deflected towards that. But this is a big story and theres a dripdrip happening and i think its going to continue for a very long time. Yeah, hes wanted for questioning in ukraine and there are questions still swirling about the payments that ended up getting him kicked off the campaign not to mention the things surrounding him now. Olivia nuzzi, thanks for joining me. Thank you. Still to come, senator al franken on calls to hal