Tonight he opens up into how technology is revolutionizing education. We want kids to be creators, not merely consumers about increasing concerns over privacy issues as personal information is misused on the web. Privacy to us is a human right. And the most consequential issues americans face including immigration. The daca situation i am personally as an person deeply offended by. From chicago, this is revolution, apple changing the world. Here are Msnbcs Chris Hayes and rickios cara swisher. Welcome to Lane Tech CollegePrep High School here on the northside of the great city of chicago. Were here tore interview a leader of a company that revolutionize the way we communicate. One of the most recognizable brands on the planet and also crucially the most valuable company in the entire world, apple. Its poised to become the worlds First Trillion Dollar Company raising new questions about its role and responsibility in everything from job creationing to education tox privacy protection. Were going to talk about that and more so lets bring out the ceo of apple, tim cook. Good to see you. Tim, thank you for coming. I think theyre all excited to get new iphones from you. Just to be clear, this is not a discussion, youre not announcing a new iphone here, is that correct. Thats correcting. Sometimes you tease them. Sometimes. Were going to be talking about education. You have an event here in chicago about education. And about ipads and different things. Why dont we talk a little bit what youre trying to do. Yeah. We announced a new curriculum called everyone can create. In recognition that in addition to the regular courses that people get in school, that you could actually, if you intersect those with technology, you can amplify the level of learning and creativity in these classes. The purpose is that our view is that education is a great equalizer of people. Uhhuh. And that if you look at many of the issues that we face in society today, that you can find their root in that people dont have access to quality education. Maybe i dont have access at all. And that the country should be investing more in that. And what weve identified some areas that we think we can help in. One of those is in coding education. Right. And so we not only have a curriculum around coding but we crafted our own programming language, created it. But one of the things you focus on and announced is there arrangement with the city of chicago and northwestern university. Yes, yes. Which youre going to help teachers learn. Thats right. Explain that. Explain that and then i want to get into the idea of whether everybody should code. What were doing is what we found is that most all Teachers Want a level of coding for their classes. You know, i talked to a teacher in toronto a couple months ago that had integrated coding into her mathematics class and she found that her students learned the mathematics lessons much faster and much deeper with coding introduced. You know, our products help engage students in the learning process more. I mean, this is a proven thing. And so what were doing at northwestern is working between northwestern and lane tech which is at the high school that youre at obviously working together to offer training to every teacher in the in the system that wants to come. Free training. Free professional development. And helping them integrate coding into their classes. One of the things that i hear a lot in Silicon Valley is if youre not creative, youre not going to have a job. Theyll be replaced by a computer either by ai or automation or thing like that. We can talk about that, but besides coding, lets talk about where jobs are because theres people working already and threw have to be retrained and change for the economy. Can you talk about where jobs are and what people who are currently work having to do to educate themselves . Yeah, i think number one, i think we all have to get comfortable that education is sort of lifelong, a lifelong requirement. Its no longer sufficient to go to school for 12 years and maybe some more in college and then call it questions for a lifetime. Jobs will be cannibalized over time and replaced by others and now, those people that embrace that are going to do incredibly well. And certainly the system to help people retrain has to be put in place in largely needs a lot of work right now. To do that. But there are going to be incredible jobs in ai, ar. Im a huge fan of augmented reality. I think it is huge. You are. Its profound, right . There will be still incredible jobs in. Fields that exist today. I think were probably, i think the narrative around doom and gloom is not correct. What is it then . Well, i think its more of if you look back in history, when i started working as an intern, if i had a question for the accounting department, i went to the accounting manager and they would take a journal and open up the journal and find where they had manually recorded something. Obviously, spread sheets came along and that automated some of that, and then more and more things happened over the time with enterprise systems, et cetera. So weve had this significant productivity change in the United States for a long time. And there have been jobs that had been displaced. But frankly, many more jobs have been created than displaced. What we didnt do a good job of is taking care of the people that were displaced and getting them into the jobs that were being created. That is a muscle the u. S. Has not done a good job of building. And not for lack of trying. I mean, you know, this solution, right, you got the trade adjustment act, all sorts of job retraining funding starting way back in clinton. You know, the idea was look, we now live in this era of creative destruction. Jobs are going to go away and the solution to that is retraining. It hasnt really worked. I mean on scale it hasnt really been effective. Is there a responsibility that you at apple or other Tech Companies have to be part of that rather than that being something that the state does . Yes, i think as is the case in most huge problems that are complex, we should not all sit around waiting for government to tell us what to do. You know, this should be something that government and business are working together on. And i do believe we have a responsibility. I feel it. But it is a narrative from Silicon Valley its going to be like farming to manufacturing. More and more jobs. Talk a little about the displaced. What cant can you be doing now . If tower a worker, what would you be worried about . Well, i am a worker. And of a sort. Of a sort. Of a sort. I think most people would say im a worker. Youre a hard worker, tim. But no, i think that all of us should count on, theres an element of what each of us do that will be automated over time. And part of that, by the way, we should all say thank god because were all working too much. Wouldnt society be great if we all worked a little less but we didnt have to dial down our output. That wouldnt be so bad. But i do think that we all have to get used to the idea of continually learning, refreshing our skills for the jobs of tomorrow. The jobs of tomorrow right now are heavily software based. If you look in this country today, theres a half a million jobs that are not being filled. Theyre all software. That half a million, theres more jobs that arent being filled arent software but theres a half million software. Thats a huge gap. That number is projected to go to 2 million over the next three to four years. And so that is enormous, right . And weve got to get more people interested in coding. Weve got to reach out to women and underrepresented minorities that have been too low in and i feel for apple, were going were taking the responsibility of doing that. Were not just saying hey, this school only has 20 women in this curriculum and so i cant hire any more women. Right. I think thats a cop out. I think the businesses doing that are not viewing their responsibility correctly. Businesses should be more than about making revenues and profits. You know, part of responsibility or social contract for anyone right, citizens, nonprofits, corporations is how we interact with the government, taxes is one part of that, as well. Regulation. You know, apple just announce this had Huge Investment in the u. S. , right . Prepatrioted all this money from an ground, paid a onetime tax fee. Theres a question now, does that change how apple works Going Forward . The big argument about this tax bill was the u. S. Tax code was uncompetitive and it forced companies to do things like incorporate in places like ireland or the island of jersey so that they could avoid the onerous rate. Now that thats changed the and the money brought back, does that change how apple legally exists in terms of where its incorporated and what taxes it pays . Yeah, what it does, chris, is that it allows you to take earnings that you are earning in other countries in the world, maybe youre earning them in latin america or the middle east or wherever youre selling your product and it allows you to take those earnings and invest in the United States without a further penalty. Right, but is that a wup time thing. No, thats an ongoing thing. Lead to the way you guys are incorporated. That was ongoing. That was the biggest thing in the tax thing from a corporate point of view. For your viewers i want to distinguish corporate versus individual. We took no position on individual because we would just be a part of the peanut gallery. We have no special expertise there. Its not something i would have done, right . In that way, but the corporate piece i do believe is good for america. Because i think what the result of it will be is america will having higher investments. And thats essential. What about jobs that apple has in this country . Obviously, youre not going to make iphones here. You never have. Youve made them abroad the entire time. So have other companies created things. What would apple what would apple bigger apple business look like then . Were hiring at least 20,000 people in the u. S. Right . So thats not a small amount. But the number of jobs we will create including that work for other people weve already created 2 million in the u. S. And a milon five of those. So the as things iterate out . But not too far iterating out too far. A million and a half of those write apps for your iphone or ipad. Million and a half. The unbelievable thing about this is the party of one can sit in the basement of their home whether theyre in a rural area, urban area, wherever they would like to be and they can create an app and all of a sudden, they can sell their product around the world that has been an unbelievable empowering thing. So you dont see it as like a big factor . President trump has said that, hes been pressing people. Heres what i see in, can we are building things in the United States. And its not true that iphone isnt built in the United States. Lets talk about that for a minute. Heres the truth. There are components of iphone built in the United States. The glasses is from kentucky. There are many chips, silicon chips that are all made from all over the United States. Theres equipment that goes into manufacturing it thats all over the u. S. The very sophisticated face id module on the iphone x will be played in the United States. In texas. In texas. Yes. And so there are plants going in in. Different places and we have always made many of the parts here. What people just fitch eight on because i think its just its just a misunderstanding is that they just see where the final product is assembled. And say oh, that is not done in the u. S. But in a global world, you begin to do things in a variety of countries. And so you source components somewhere, some other components somewhere else. You assemble yet somewhere pems and then those products go everywhere in the world. Thats how a Global Society works. Theres existing political pressure around this idea of opening jeff Bay Headquarters thing. The idea of it. Is that. I dont feel political pressure. Look what we want to do at apple, we know that apple could only have been created in the United States. We know that. This company would not have been started in any other country in the world. It would not have the flourished in any other country in the world. It the vast majority of our research and development is done here. And so we love this country. You know, were patriots. This is our country. And so what we want to create as many jobs as we can in the u. S. We dont need any political pressure for that. Weve already been doing that. A and anwe want those to be as across as much of the u. S. As possible. Weve got a huge amount of people in california. We have a huge amount of people in texas as a company and so we said you know, were going to create a new site. And were going to create it in a state other than california and texas. Theres 48 more. Theres plenty more. And were not doing the beauty contest kind of thing. Thats not apple. What do you think about the beauty contest model . Im watching cities line up to essentially throw subsidies and in some cases hundreds of millions of tax dollars at amazon to get them to come. Youve got foxconn in wisconsin that signed this big contract and the subsidies are now looking like theyre hundreds of millions dollars there. What do you make of that kind of competition . I think that each state, i think the great thing about the u. S. Is is freedom. And i think if states want to compete for things, then god bless them. I think thats sort of thats a part of america. And so i dont condemn it. I think its their decision but from our point of view, we didnt want to create this contest because i think because i think what comes out of that is, you wind up putting people through a ton of work to select one. And so you wind up that is a case where you have a winner and a lot of losers unfortunately. I dont like that. You know, my, most things in life i do not view as win lose. We always the best things you can ever do in business is find the win win. You know, whoever youre working with, if youre trading between countries, you find a way for both to win. If youre working with a partner in business, find a way for both to win. That contest is set up as a winlose and not something i want apple to be a part of. Up next on revolution, your privacy and the shot heard around the tech world. If you were mark zuckerberg, what would you do right now . What would you do . I wouldnt be in this situation. Sfx muffled whistle text alert. Im your phone, stuck down here between your seat and your console, playing a little hidenseek. Cold. Warmer. Warmer. Ah boiling. Jackpot. And if youve got cutrate car insurance, you could be picking up these charges yourself. So get allstate, where agents help keep you protected from mayhem. Like me. Mayhem is everywhere. Are you in good hands . 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You can get up to 5 lines of talk and text included at no extra cost. So all you pay for is data. See how you could save 400 or more a year. Plus, for a limited time, get a 250 prepaid card when you buy any new samsung. Xfinity mobile. Its a new kind of network designed to save you money. Click, call, or visit an xfinity store today. We are back with apple ceo tim cook. In the wake of the news about data scraping by Cambridge Analytica and facebook you had this to say recently. I thought it was quite interesting. You said its clear to me that something, some large profound change is needed. Im bernally not a fan of regulation because it can have unexpected consequences to it. However i think this situation is so dire and become so large that probably some well crafted regulation is necessary. What did you mean . Look, if weve never believed thaech these detailed profiles of people that have incredibly deep personal information that is patched together from several sources should exist. That the connection of all of these dots that you could use them in such devious ways if someone wanted to do that that this was one of the things that were possible in life but shouldnt exist. Right. It shouldnt be allowed to exist. And so i think the best regulation is no regulation is selfregulation. That is the best regulation. Because regulation can have unexpected consequences, right . However, i think were beyond that here. And i do think that its time for a set of people to think deeply about what can be done here. Now, the cynic in me says youve got other Tech Companies that are much more dependent on that kind of thing than apple is and so yeah, you want regulation here because that would essentially be a comparative advantage that if regulation were to come in on this privacy question, the people its going to hit harder arent apple, its places like google and facebook. The skeptic in you would be wrong. The truth is we could make a ton of money if we monetized our customer, if our customer was our product. We could make a ton of money. Weve elected not to do that. Our products are iphones and ipads and macs and home pods and the watch, et cetera. If we can convince to you buy one, well make a little bit of money, right . But you are not our product. You are our customer. You are a jewel and we care we care about the user experience. And were not going to traffic in your personal your personal life. I think its an invasion of privacy. I think its privacy to us is a human right. Its a civil liberty. And in something that is unique to america. You know, this is like freedom of speech and freedom of the press. And privacy is right up there for us. And