That. I know you werent. Was it racist . Like i said, i wasnt involved in that. I know you werent. Was it racist . When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. Well, theyre not calling them impeachment proceedings, but one week from today the House Judiciary Committee will hold the first in a series of hearings on what its announcement refers to as president ial obstruction and other crimes. House judiciary is, of course, the committee responsible for starting the impeachment process should they choose to do so. And at least half the democratic members of that committee are now on the record calling for just that. As of tonight, a total of 58 house members have come out in support of a formal impeachment inquiry, a number thats grown steadily since Robert Mueller told the public last week in his own voice that he was unable to conclude that the president is not a criminal. Lawmakers are back in washington today for the First Time Since mueller broke his silence after spending the past week working in their home districts. During that time, some of them were confronted by voters demanding they get more aggressive, including House Speaker nancy pelosi, whose speech at the California DemocraticParty Convention was erupted by calls for impeachment. Why is it the president wont defend our democracy from this foreign threat . What is the president covering up . The report lays out 11 instances of possible obstruction of justice by the president of the United States. As i told you this is like coming home for me. Another member of House Democratic leadership, House Homeland Security chair bennie thompson, told me that he decided to come out in support of impeachment only after talking to his constituents. Up until i came home this weekend, i had resisted moving forward, but, you know, i represent this district and i listened to the people and i heard them. It didnt matter whether i was in the hole in the wall or the finest restaurant in my district, people would come up and talk to me about this. And let me tell you, it bothers them. First up next week, the Judiciary Committee will hear from legal experts and former u. S. Attorneys on the findings of the Mueller Report. They will also hear testimony from a former white House Counsel, not from don mcgahn, who defied a subpoena to testify two weeks ago, citing the president s invocation of executive privilege. Instead the committee will hear from Richard Nixons white House Counsel john dean, whose public testimony on the watergate coverup was a major turning point in that scandal. These hearings represent a compromise of sorts between different factions of the House Democratic caucus, which disagree on strategy and on whether to use the i word, as the president calls it. One thing there doesnt seem to be a whole lot of disagreement on within that caucus is that the president deserves to be impeached. Whether or not its politically smart. That his conduct as seen in public and the Mueller Report already meets the threshold of high crimes and misdemeanors, so much so that the number three House Democrat now says impeachment proceedings are all but inevitable. We do believe that if we efficiently, effectively educate the public then we will have done our jobs and we can move on an impeachment vote. But it sounds like youre you think that the president will be impeached or at least proceedings will begin in the house at some point but just not right now . Yes, thats exactly what i feel. I think weve already begun it. Im joined now by a member of the House Judiciary Committee who supports starting an impeachment inquiry, congressman david cicilline, democrat from rhode island. Congressman, tell me what this hearing a week from today is designed to do. Well, chris, its designed to provide some context with respect to the Mueller Report. Well hear from legal scholars, one several of the nearly thousand u. S. Attorneys who have signed a letter that said the conduct of the president would amount to obstruction of justice and he would be charged if he were not the president. Well hear from john dean, who knows something about coverups and the way a corrupt administration operates, but your kind of leadin suggests there are big divisions in the caucus. I would really say to you the Democratic Caucus is unified on two critical points. One is we must hold this president accountable, that no one is above the law, that the president cannot continue to cover up and prevent us from getting to the truth, and secondly, that in addition to holding him accountable, that we need to continue to deliver on the important priorities that the American People elected us to focus on. Driving down the cost of health care. Taking on the high cost of prescription drugs. Rebuilding the infrastructure of our country. Raising family incomes and taking on the corruption in washington. Weve passed over 100 pieces of legislation consistent with that agenda that will improve peoples lives. Weve got to continue to do that. But the American People also expect us to hold this administration accountable. There is some disagreement in the caucus about the vehicle, the best vehicle to use. But the hearings on monday will be the beginning of our congratulations of the contents of the Mueller Report. It will help bring that report to life for the American People and explain the crimes that are alleged ten separate instances of obstruction of justice. Including efforts by the president to create false documents or encourage people to do that, to encourage people not to tell the truth. These are serious, serious allegations in the Mueller Report. In terms of holding the president accountable, there is also this question of who you can get before you committee. Obviously don mcgahn, bill barr have both defied your subpoenas. I see that theres going to be a vote on tuesday for contempt, it appears, for both of those individuals. How do you see where things stand visavis the kind of obstruction of congress that the executive has doubled down on . Well, i think theres no question that all the members of the committee and all the members of the Democratic Caucus believe that its critical that we have the ability to get witnesses and get documents that we need to conduct our investigations. If we allow the executive branch to simply deny us witnesses or deny documents, the executive branch will be allowed to extinguish executive oversight. That cannot happen. People cannot defy lawfully issued subpoenas. Were really running on two tracks. Well begin a series of hearings before the senate Judiciary Committee. At the same time well move forward on contempt proceedings to compel the attendance of witnesses and the production of documents. Thats what the vote will be next week. That will authorize a Civil Enforcement action. But we really want to make it very clear that we intend to do our work, we intend to use the courts to enforce our subpoenas so we can get to the truth and prevent the president from behaving as if hes above the law and trying to keep this ongoing coverup from continuing. I want to get your response to a little bit of reporting about the president , and this has to do with something that youre working on in your subcommittee on antitrust. In went the president repeatedly told aides such as gary cohn and rob porter and gary kelly to block the at t time warner merger. They didnt listen. His tweet today suggests an attempt to punish a network that he hates. Does that itself open the possibility of impeachment . Using the antitrust powers of the executive to punish bad coverage, where does that stand in your mind . Yeah, its a complete abuse of power. Look, the antitrust enforcement that is required by the department of justice is a quasi judicial proceeding. It has to be free from any political interference. Those are judgements that have to be made based on the facts. Its completely improper for a president to attempt in any way to interfere, and the idea of using the power of the department of justice to punish people that he perceives of giving him bad coverage is a gross abuse of the office and will obviously be part of what were conducting an investigation on with respect to the antitrust subcommittee of the whole issue of antitrust. Yeah. You announced big efforts to look into big tech through that committee today. Its very interesting stuff. I want to have you come back and talk to us about that as that proceeds. Congressman cicilline, thank you very much. Thank you. For more on the first hearing of the Mueller Report im joined by the former chief of staff of harry reid when he was democratic leader in the senate and former congresswoman elizabeth hoeltzman who served n the Judiciary Committee the ven diagram of various parts of the caucus, we should definitely have hearings about what this guy is up to and thats what were getting next week. Right. I think the real problem that the democrats face, well, people who care about democracy face, is that the witnesses who can tell the story are not showing up. And how do you get them . The really critical thing is to get the story of the Mueller Report to the American People. You cant hand a report to a jury and say, convict somebody. Youve got to have live witnesses. And thats the problem here. The story of the Mueller Report hasnt been told to the American People. And it hasnt been told in the first person by the people there, like for instance don mcgahn. John dean, god bless him, but john dean was there 30 years ago, 40 years ago. Correct. He wasnt there now. Don mcgahn sitting up there, but they cant get him to come before the committee. Right. S so what theyre trying to do is figure out how to do that and thats a critical problem for nem. Adam, its interesting to listen to you talk about this because you were an insider. You were in senator harry reids office. You know the view from inside looks very different than sometimes the view from outside. Sometimes properly so and sometimes in a blinkered fashion. Im curious what you make of this strategy and pelosis appearance before the California Democratic party . Speaker pelosi has to bring the caucus along. Thats just a fact. She cant announce shes in favor of impeachment if the caucus isnt there. One of the things that i think was interesting about her appearance is, you know, she laid out the case for essentially why the president deserved to be impeached without saying he deserved to be impeached. Thats sort of one of the things theyre dealing with here. If they lay out the bill of particulars against the president , the automatic reflex question is, well, doesnt he deserved to be impeached. The line theyre trying to walk of making the substantive case against him without saying the i word is tricky because they everyone the power to do it and it begs the question why they dont use the power. Yeah, there is a sort of semantic wrinkle here. When i saw them noticing the hearing and the title is president ial obstruction and other crimes. Its like, well, oththeyre cri. Crimes means crimes. Thats the territory were in. Right. You dont need a crime to be impeached. I think they have to be really careful about the language they use. Yes. I would have said obstruction of justice and other abuses of power. Right. Because i think you fall into a trap that youre going to that the American People expect that you can prove that he committed a crime. Right. Abuse of power. Adam, this little blip, right, this just passed today. The president tells his advisers go block this merger because i dont like the way this company is reporting on me. Its the perfect trump example because its obviously, to me, its an obvious abuse of power. I think it meets the threshold for high crimes and misdemeanors, but they all just ignore him. Time and time again the guy tries to commit massive abuses of power and fails in doing so, so many around him, wait the guy out, you cant trust him. I think thats part of the problem that the democrats have. Right. Thats right. Except for the fact that as of january 1st, 2019, they have the power to do something about it. Right. And i think trump got used to two years of being in control of the white house with a compliant Republican Congress where nobody was doing anything about it. He got in that habit. Democrats i think in some ways got used to the fact that it feels powerless because the media would eventually move on and the story eventually moves on, but they have the power now and they have the power for the if first time to actually do something about these abuses of power, and it really is incumbent on them to do it. I want to play you something weve been watching the sort of president ial candidates react to this. Mayor Pete Buttigieg was on a town hall right before our hour. Really fascinating. This is him and Chris Matthews talking about this question of impeachment. He comes right out and says what he would do. Take a listen. So i do recognize that while were still trying to get information, the investigations are ongoing, there are witnesses yet to come before congress, that there may be some strategic wisdom in following that sequence. Ill leave that to congress. Ive got a followup and its its the its to sort of nail you down. Yeah. If you were voting in congress right now on impeachment, would you vote to impeach . Yeah, i would. Its hard to adams point, right, thats the problem is, when you lay out and say, look, i think the guys abusing power and hes committed hes abused the office, you know, you end up entailed into something. Right. Well, look, there are a lot of parallels with nixon. Thats what i write about in my book. The dangles pardons, thats what nixon was impeached for. Firing the special prosecutor. But nixon succeeded in doing it and trump didnt. Trump did. He fired the special prosecutor. Im sorry, he fired comey. Right, he fired comey. He tried to basically end his own presidency and firing mueller but don mcgahn wouldnt let him do it. Right. Nixon in the end didnt succeed in undermining our whole government. Neither with this president. There is plenty out there. The question is how do you bring the American People along . Mueller sets out part of the case and its critical to bring the American People along, educate them. Thats what happened in watergate. Lets follow that blueprint. Final thing, adam. Our next segment is about some of the legislation sitting on Mitch Mcconnells desk. Its true this house has done a tremendous amount in terms of passing a lot of stuff, whether you agree with the legislation or not. You saw cicilline talk about two tracks. There is this idea that the Domestic Legislation passed out of the house can be the kind of message for democrats and i wonder what you think of that. Yeah, i mean, you know, House Democrats are proud of the fact that they ran and won on health care in 2018 and thats really important. There is a difference now. In 2018 the prospect of republicans taking away health care was a live possibility that drove a constant flood of news out of washington so that buoyed democrats messages. You cant drive messages just by passing bills. The press knows theyre going to die in the senate. Even if they didnt, President Trump would never sign them. You cant drive a message in this saturated environment we have by passing a bunch of bills. Thats well said. Good to have you both on. Next Mitch Mcconnell is holding the senate hostage. Senator chris murphy on the standstill senate in two minutes. Dstill senate in two minutes. Or trips to mars. 4. 95. Delivery drones or the latest phones. 4. 95. No matter what you trade, at fidelity its just 4. 95 per online u. S. Equity trade. No matter what you trade, at fidelity feeand relief fromf symptoms caused byin. Over 200 indoor and outdoor allergens. Like those from buddy. [ dog whimper ] live claritin clear. For one week only, save up to 14 on select claritin product. Check this sundays newspaper for details. Chloe, why is there a lamp shade on your head . Shhh. My owner might have given me a little bit of catnip. Uh. [ laughing ] thats great. Listen. It is great, gidget. Everything is grand. [ meow ] [ purring ] [ growl ] are you finished . [ cooing ] that was weird. Oh sister its going to get way weirder. People want the democrats to pass immigration laws. They want the democrats, very importantly, to do something on infrastructure. They want the democrats to reduce drug pricing. Donald trump has been complaining about the socalled persecution at the hands of democrats in months and hes repeatedly claims that Congressional Democrats are getting nothing done as a result. Thats plainly, factually in correct. For example, republicans have been the ones to block a desperately needed disaster passage. Thats far from the only example, particularly in the senate, where majority leader Mitch Mcconnell has stalled bill after bill after bill. That includes the for the people act on Voting Rights and anticorruption. The equality act, which the house passed. It would ban discrimin