Indepth interviews with leading newsmakers, plus discussions with Americas preeminent political minds. Important meeting because i never even heard that. As far as you know, this is all of it. This is everything. This is everything. All right. So who do you believe . Joining me now to break this down, former state Department Senior adviser. Paul butler, Professor Of Law at georgetown law school. Former fbi agent. Clint watts author of messing with the enemy. David k johnson and former watergate prosecutor. Wow, we just have an embarrassment of riches. Im going to go Around The Horn and talk about. Im going to start with you paul. Just on how this changes the legal case. Trump tower meeting. June 3. Donald trump jr. Gets email from Rob Goldstone saying moscow supports his fathers candidacy. He responded if its what you say it is, i love it. Trump junior and goldstone finalize a date. Same day trump teases this major speech. June 8 russian intelligence
these are places where he should be strong right now. Indictments are not. The American Public is going to make a decision on how they feel about donald trump in november. This is going to be an election that is responding to him, his personality. And i dont think its going to go his way. It is interesting. I think it was a poll that majority of people think the russians have something on donald trump and that the independence are moving in that direction. Nick, could don junior, if in fact cohen who said to pauls point that multiple people were in the room, so there is theoretically a way to easily corroborate whether hes been accurate about the idea that donald junior shared with his father weve got this meeting coming up where russian official is going to give us dirt on Hillary Clinton. This is what donald junior testified to the Senate Judiciary committee. This was september 7, 2017. Lets listen. This is don junior being
campaign. With Knowledge Beyond this conspiracy upon which 12 russians have already been indicted. So what were looking at is another block in that evidence that shows that donald trump was part of this conspiracy. And before and im going to go back to the legal bit for a minute. Just for a moment. I want to go to malcolm. Go back and remind ourselves again of what happened. You had this attack by russians on the dnc and then you have this cascade of events all taking place in june. In which it does appear the Trump Campaign is going to try to take advantage at minimum of that hacked material. Nit and act which is the sanctions against the russian. L when that information comes out. Its going to be even more damaging because theres no way the entire senior staff of trumps team, jared kushner, Paul Manafort, all of these people are in the room and would never report to donald trump. Its implausible. And the whole question about collusion has been did people around donald trump decide that they were going to help his campaign by accepting information that they thought could be helpful and hurt Hillary Clinton that is the question. Whether or not he was a knowing
asset or unwitting asset. Does this information if it pans out with cohen take us closer to the idea that donald trump was a witting participant in what happened to Hillary Clinton in the election system. The attack on it in 2016. I would take it closer. Unless there is some sort of physical evidence, i think weve already talked about the phone call from that unknown number, or there is some other person that will corroborate what was said by Michael Cohen. This is going to be a really difficult angle. The other trouble with this is its happening now in the public. We heard cohen say this. Were hearing from secondhand sources. Its a little bit troublesome to push too far in what the revelations are that will come from it. I think is more interesting is the number of tapes, the actual recordings of the president , the number of actual physical item, the technical indicators that are out there that connect to the president. I think if theres anything in
terms of this investigation that will ultimately show collusion will have to be some hard evidence that will play out. At the same point, when you look at how the russians do their Influence Operations, theyre looking for unwitting and witting agents to help advance their goals. Throughout all of this, what weve seen is some people around the Trump Campaign maybe knew more of what they were involved in whereas others potentially knew less. Who just open the door and seem to be opportunity. Many cases around the Trump Campaign, you see cases of both. I dont think well know until the Mueller Investigation really closes out and further indictments come forward and who fits into which of those two camps. Before you move on, for those Who Dont Know what the blocked number is, can you remind people what that is. The sequence of events around mr. Goldstone and his contacts with donald trump jr. , there was a series of phone calls that were made. One of the phone calls that were
made during that time after he had been contacted by mr. Goldstone was a blocked in your opinion. Unknown number. No one knows who he was contacting. In the context of this chain of events with this phone call, no one knows if that is the president or someone in the president s staff that also knew about what was going on. Who was promotionally coming into a meeting based on the goldstone contact. Absolutely. Just to really quickly for those of you, this piece in the Washington Post by paul and greg, this is from april 27. And its titled the new house gop report. Remember the republican senate. The House Intel Committee came out with a report saying its revealing about a good way according to democratic response to nunez memo right after donald trump jr. Set up specifics of the meeting in trump tower, he had two calls to the number in russia belonging to a man. Between those two calls, the democratic response for trump received a third call from a blocked number and the question is who it might have been. Let me go back to nick. Does this now mean there needs to be a second set of hearings that at minimum to answer the questions and make it a very salient point, there needs to be reopened. Either house intel or senate intel needs to recall don junior and try to call cohen. If they call don junior, hes simply going to lie again. Dont expect youre going hear anything different from him. Hes not going to suddenly admit that he lied to the committee. I would think that with respect to cohen, theyre probably not going be able to speak to him. Hes going to be cooperating with the Mueller Investigation. Keep in mind that cohen in a lot of ways is corroborated right on down the line on what happened here. Its not like this is some incident that was taken out of nowhere that suddenly we think donald trump knew about this meeting. I mean, i think it was pretty obvious to everybody he had to know. He is the one that had the blocked number for starters. Also involved in going back to
most recent indictment. He asked the russians in public to actually hack into Hillary Clintons email and her server an hours later thats exactly what they did. Joy, i tell you where those blocked Phone Records are now. A few miles from here and reporter muellers office. He already knows whether President Trump was called by don junior and we all know a few words what the subject of the conversation. My panel is all sticking around. Heres the other fun part. Putin likes to take things that happen around him. There seems presumably to be a way to affirmatively find out if it were true. Multiple people in the room. It will be interesting to know how this plays out. Continue this on the other side of the break. Well be right back. Taken with methotrexate or similar medicines, it can reduce joint pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. Xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma, and other cancers have happened. Dont start xeljanz xr if you have an infection. Tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts, and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. Your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz xr, and monitor certain liver tests. Tell your doctor if you were in a region where fungal infections are common, and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. Xeljanz xr can reduce the symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. Dont let another morning go by without talking to your rheumatologist about xeljanz xr. We also know for a fact he dictated don juniors cover story for the meeting from air force one. How does all of that work together. In papers in mueller. Trump said he it was a falls narrative about the subject of ma meeting. And why do you lie . Why you cover up if everything is on the up and up. So thats consciousness of guilt on President Trumps part and we think about guilty of what . At least four crimes. Campaign violations, Computer Fraud if trump knew the information was coming from Hacked Hehack Ed emails. Conspiracy to the United States and Obstruction Of Justice. That memo, Press Release was a flat out lie. Whats interesting, the committee to protect the president. These House Republicans who have made it their mission led by the
chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and his fellow travelers there. Theyve tried to say this entire narrative is a lie made up on the basis of the Christopher Steel dossier. That essentially a political document designed to destroy donald trump is the basis for all of this. At this point, the calls are coming from inside the house. Okay. Michael cohen is mad and not going to take it anymore is a vanity fair headline. Cohen, very knowledgeable about cohen. She reports theres a lot more to come. Theres a lot. Youre with someone for ten years. You dont think theres a lot. The Trump Organization is a big business and nobody in that place made a decision without his knowledge. So the idea, its not Christopher Steel. Its his own people. He is known to be a micro manager. Somebody who refuses to let go of the reigns in any way and as of didnt necessarily work for him as a businessman because hes been bankrupt 11 times. Certainly doesnt trust expertise of other business people. Its not working as president. Typically, this is why the
president has a committee to protect him within the white house. Right. Youre supposed to have people instead, donald trump is getting down into the weeds of even what a Press Release says and trying to control his own narrative to the point where its his ego rather than the facts taking over everything. That ultimately that ego is going to be his downfall. David k. Johnson, now you have the Trump Organization finance chief being called to testify against the committee. Allen weisselberg. Considered a witness. People said according to the wall street journal. Tell us a little bit about the Trump Organization and how it can get dragged in in you view. How involved is the Trump Organization in the political organization. Oh, this is all one piece. Hes also not a detailed person. He issues directives. Allen weisselbergs involvement with the trump family goes back to when fred trump was running the organization. Lets not forget fred trumps Business Partner was willie, identified in Law Enforcement reports as a front for the gam bee know and behalf families. All the money, in and out. He may be in a position when hes called To Testify Invokes Fifth Amendment right. Im sure prosecutors and you can talk about this, would in a moment give him immunity transactional or prof lactic because we dont care about him. Hes not the focus of this. He knows where the money went and where the money came in and where it went out is critical to understanding what is going on here. Who would get them in front of grand jury. Weisselberg is clearly one of those people. He was involved in every single one of Donald Trumps tax returns. You could look at the return and understand what happened without having a tax preparer actually explain the entries and take you through the flow of money and flow of information that goes from the underlying records, whatever those may be, into the returns. So in a sense, weisselberg is extremely important witness with respect to understanding how the money came into russia, went into the trump Obama Administration. How it was reported. What companies were used to hide that money, who was responsible for that, and then what happened to that money. So its not just a matter of we
could all have his returns, but you really need somebody like weisselberg who can really explain to you what those numbers mean and the significance of everything that appears on those returns. And clint, you know, i think one of the things that frustrates a lot of people when they look back at all that happened on the 2016 campaign is that while the cia was on fire about the foreign piece of what russian russia was doing down to the granular piece saying theyre trying to help one of the president s get elected. The fbi was very slow and deliberate about proceeding to that conclusion. Is this complexity were talking about where youve got the Trump Organization tied to it. Donald trump and his family tied to it. Is this the reason it did take so long for the fbi to get there in your view. You have to remember how the fbi works. The hacki ining opens up a occa. You have to do the hacking and
track it back. That takes a very long time in cyber. Youve seen that. It took many years for them to get that level of attribution. The other part is you dont necessarily know the financial transactions, especially if they have not be part of the case, are tied to any sort of foreign influence. The third big thing to remember is the fbis mission is to do counter espionage. Counter Intelligence Program is really going after spies. Part of this is no one really has the assignment from protecting the American Public from foreign influence. There is no agency that is really part of that. There is no task force. Theres no interview you go to for that. So when the fbi looks at this, theyre looking at a series of cases. Theyre going to be very slow to do this. Youre not really looking to try to identify how a foreign influence would work in social media in hacking maybe through white colored crime or through oligarchs or meeting with foreign contacts. Each of those take a long time
to develop. Putting it together is not something they can do very quickly gl thatquick ly. Thats a very important point. Were going to keep this panel. Mall couple, tee you up on the other side of break. Thats one thing that frustratings people they dont understand. The fbi investigates domestic crimes, but this other foreign intelligence piece. We were talking about it on the show every week. Lets talk about why it wasnt able to be stopped and then some of the threats to the next election because theyre already happening. Much more coming back. Stay right there. vo why are Subaru Outback owners always smiling . Because theyve chosen the industry leader. Subaru outback holds its value better than any other vehicle in its class, according to alg. Better than rav4. Better than grand cherokee. Better than edge. Make every adventure a happy one with Subaru Outback. Get 0 Apr Financing on the 2018 Subaru Outback. Thats confident. But its not kayak confident. Kayak searches Hundreds Of Travel and Airline Sites to find the best flight for me. So im more than confident. Hows your family . Kayak. Search one and done. They were all people because of their positions might have been interesting targets from an espionage standpoint. Microsoft says that the phony site was taken down and that the fishing was thwarted. We know one candidate that has been targeted by russia in 2018. More on that from my panel next. Rushed into booking one. Thats why we created expedias addon advantage. Now after booking your flight, you unlock discounts on select hotels right until the day you leave. Addon advantage. Discounted hotel rates when you add on to your trip. Only when you book with expedia. We must. We have no choice. We must lower or taxes. Your senator, claire, she must do this for you and if she doesnt do it for you, around the same time when donald trump called for her ouster from the senate, missouri senator claire became a target of a fishing attempt. Executed by the same Russian Intelligence Agency responsible for the dnc hacks of 2016. According to reporting by the daily beast, she is one of the most vulnerable democrats according to the daily beast. One of the most vulnerable democrats for reelection this year. Running in a tossup state that tru