Transcripts For MSNBCW Andrea Mitchell Reports 20190725 : vi

MSNBCW Andrea Mitchell Reports July 25, 2019

Congress. What we see an attempt as they are doing as we sit here. And they expect to do it during the next campaign. Reporter but this white house and the ma support leader refuse to allow these bills to come to the floor. That to me is not making our country safer. Pressuring pelosi, facing a divided caucus and pressure from her own Judiciary Committee chairman. What will nancy pelosi do about impeachment . Its about the congress, the constitution and the courts and we are fighting the president on all in the courts. The facts and the law. Thats what matters. Not politics, not partisanship, just patriotism. And power of the people, Puerto Ricans celebrating after their massive protests force the embattled governor to resign. Reporter these protesters have waited for word of this resignation all day and they just heard it, seconds ago. All that pentup frustration for the last several weeks is now spilling into the streets of san jua juan. And good day, everyone, im Andrea Mitchell in new york. The morning after Robert Muellers testimony, all eyes are on nancy pelosi, the speaker of the house has complete control over members of her caucus including judiciary jerry nadler can get their way and proceed to impeachment hearings. If only because they say it would strengthen their leverage with the courts to get critical witnesses to testify Like White House counsel don mcgahn, President Trump and their advisers are saying the mueller testimony as a complete victory for them, confidence the impeachment threat is now over. Joining me now, nbc White House Correspondent Kristen Welker in new york. A former fbi against director in the countercombel jens division and joyce vance, a former attorney and an assistant attorney general and msnbc analyst phil rucker, White House Bureau chief at the new york post. Welcome all. The day after mueller, a victory lap at the white house, premature or not, so, rucker, lets take us through where nancy pelosi is right now, where the caucus is the morning after. Andrea, well, the caucus is divided right now. Have you an impatient impeachment caucus within that democratic caucus. They want to begin now with these impeachment proceedings. Pelosi is trying to hold off to buy some time. She said yesterday she did not want to go down the impeachment road until she has the best hand possible. That requires getting through a couple of court decisions. For example, they want to bring don mcgahn, the former white House Counsel to testify publicly before congress about those examples of possible obstruction of justice that were in the mueller report. Thats one of many steps that pelosi wants to take before making a final decision about whether to proceed with impeachment. And Kristen Welker, the house is about to go out as soon as today. They have to vote on the budget, on the debt ceiling, which is this remarkable agreement that theyve achieved. Everybody wanted to avoid a fiscal showdown right now, the president for his reasons and the secretary of the treasury, certainly, and the house and senate. They came together. We will not have a fiscal crisis unless something unexpected happens until after the 2020 election. The president , is he premature in celebrating, avoiding impeachment . That is the way he is certainly spinning muellers testimony . I think its an important question, andrea. Its just not clear now. One thing is certain, he is declaring victory. Ki tell you, we were an 94 half into that testimony yesterday and his legal team started texting to essentially start saying democrats are fought delivering that knockout blow that they were looking for. What is clear and phil makes this point so well, is that it doesnt add fuel to the impeachment discussion. So, of course, the process continues, nancy pelosi made that very clear. President trump is a bottom line kind of guy. So he sees that yesterday. We saw him do that when the report came out. Now, in terms of substance, there were some moments in which mueller did say things that were problematic for the president. He said it was problematic to praise wikileaks, for example, he said his report did not exonerate on issues of obstruction. Those are issues democrats will continue to focus on. For his part, President Trump will focus on the bottom line. Thats what we are seeing from the top leaders at the white house. They were pretty exuberant yesterday. You can make the point the democrats failed in a way, they put all their hopes on dramatic presentation on Robert Mueller and have for months. They let william barr set the table and create a new narrative, a false narrative if you will and the president piling on, all these months have gone by, we rarely heard anything to rebut that. That brief nineminute statement from Robert Mueller. You worked for him, there were plenty of warnings to the democrats that he is not as tough and sharp as he had been six years ago when he last testified. His 89th testimony before congress and they relied too much on robert museum tore dramatize this very dry report you could argue and sell impeachment or sell the narrative you know to the American People that this president needed to be challenged. Im sure Many Democrats today are questioning whether or not this was the effective way to go. And i wonder how much they truly understood that the aging process for mueller and his delivery as a messenger. But, look, if you look at the facts and the findings, you see some scary things and, yes, the messenger might have not been the best deliverer of that message, but its in some ways, its almost stronger coming from a man who just relies on the facts and what were the facts we heard yesterday . From a National Security perspective alone, both the first session and the intel session had severe warnings for us. We heard about a cast of criminals around this president , a litany of liars that just kept lying during the investigation. Why is that a National Security issue . Because russian and foreign powers as we heard in the second session like that resettivity. They want to feel welcome when they interfere with us. What i heard yesterday is this president and the people around him wouldnt even qualify for a Background Investigation in security clearance to work at the starbucks at fbi headquarters, yet, these people were running a campaign and running the country. Thats what america should be focused on. One of the criticisms of the hearing and of, frankly, mueller was, first of all, why didnt he push the subpoena . Because he acknowledged that there were misstatements in the few questions that the president answered fully, the written questions and that for more than a year, they felt this vital testimony from the president , which was so important to them, for more than a year, it was dangled and basically the president s lawyers, the white house lawyers ran out the clock on them. Joyce vance, was that a mistake in the mueller strategy . You know, its interesting how mueller discussed that yesterday, andrea, he talked about the balance between collecting evidence and having sufficient time and its clear that mueller for reasons that i dont fully understand felt tremendous time pressure, felt that he had to deliver there investigation in what amounted to record time for a special or an independent counsel. Many of those investigations linger for years, but mueller told us that he told his folks to exit. What i think i heard yesterday is that mueller believed he had sufficient evidence of Obstruction Without questioning the president. Mueller believed that the proof of intent, which is why he wanted the interview, was already there and anyone who reads volume 2 sees it laid out very clearly for multiple occasions. At the end of the day, it sounds like he didnt want to take the time for the court battles, which could have been, frankly, a couple of years and decided to let it go. Whether or not thats good judgment, i think well see in hindsight as democrats move forward. And one of the other weaknesses, joyce, was that he didnt push back against conspiracy theories that a lot of the republicans deposited. The democrats then didnt use their time to rebut and try to fact check, real time fact check some of the false statements that the republican members. Lets show a little bit of that. In 2016, the fbi did something they probably havent done before. They spied on two american citizens associated with the president ial campaign. You didnt follow the special counsel regulations. It clearly says, write a confidential report about decisions reached. Nowhere in here does it say write a report about decisions that werent reached. Volume 2 of this report was not authorized under the law to be written. Either steele made this whole thing up and there were never any russians telling him of this vast criminal conspiracy that you didnt find or russians lied to steele. So, elliot, you worked on the hill. Jim jordan from the very getgo saying that there was spying. Spying is a loaded word. These were fisa authorized Court Ordered searches of someone, carter page, who had previously been cited in previous investigations in criminal trials involving connections to the russians and have visited russia repeatedly and had been under under surveillance long before donald trump thought he was going to run for president. So i dont know if it would have been a wise strategy for either a witness or the majority in a Congressional Committee to push back on conspiracy theories that are not rooted. In fact, many of which have been disproven by the independent Inspector General of the Justice Department who looked into a number of these questions. If that had happened what we would have degenerated into is a critical congressional hearing, which is a shouting match and dualing allegations, where no one seems to come out on top. I think the problem with all of this. It stems from the criticism of Robert Muellers appearance or tone oh or demeanor is generally this is what happens in the age of instagram and viral videos. This is how people view congressional hearings, where, in fact, we had testimony from a credible witness. You dont have to agree with him. Hes a credible witness saying that number 1 hostile foreign actors intended to interfere in our system of elections. Number two, a president ial campaign was willing to accept that help. Number three, a sitting president of the United States sought to obstruct an investigation into these things. Now, again, we can disagree as to where to go from here, as to whether it ends in impeachment for falls flat. But thats what the testimony was. I dont think it was worth getting into fighting the conspiracy theories and the evidence is now on the record. Its now up to the congress or the Justice Department what to do. What is the chances of getting mcgahn as the last remaining vehicle for a big star testimony . I think theyre good. We heard chairman nadler yesterday say they expected the go to court on friday. Weve seen the courts previously have a willingness to expedited these sorts of squabbles that have gone on as people have tried to pierce the veil that the white house has attempted to put up over anyone thats ever been associated with it. I think we will hear don mcgahn testify in front of congress. The question will be whether it will be public or private. Democrats have to push for a public hearing. Mcgahn is as you say their last chance to bring to life the facts that are related in the mueller report. But the clock is also ticking. Kristen, that theyre leaving for recess now, the senate last week, articles of impeachment will start in the house. They will come back in september. Then you are getting into a series of debates and its too close to 2020. Isnt it . The clock matters, andrea. And it is very close to 2020. Because once we come back, thats where the focus is going to be on and i think that does complicate any efforts to move forward with an impeachment inquiry. Kristen welker. So good to see you, thank you very much. So good to see you. Thanks all. And we have breaking news today from the Justice Department. A new directive from attorney general bill barr to reinstate executions of federal death penalties. Prisoners for the first time in nearly two decades, Pete Williams joins me, pete, why now . Reporter well, attorney general barr says its time to restore the Death Penalty for the state of victims and their families, under both attorneys general have approved seeking the Death Penalty, no execution have been carried out in the federal system since 2003 for a couple of reasons. One is court fights over the lethal injection protocol, whether its constitutional. Whether it causes unnecessary suffering and then concern about that protocol. You remember president obama in 2014 ordered a review of the lethal Injection System after that notoriously botched execution in oklahoma using two relatively untested drugs. So to get around that problem, attorney general barr has directed the bureau of prisons to use, to scrap that three judge protocol and use just a single drug, pentobarbitol, a sedative, long used to euthanize animals and three states have used it and strong doses to carry out executions. And its also been now to be used in the federal system. So what barr has directed st. Bureau of prisons to start this protocol and in response, the Prison Bureau scheduled the execution of five prisoners, begining in december, continuing in january. All of whom carried out particularly brutal crimes that victimize the killed children, four of the five also killed adults. Now, of course this goes against the national trend, which has been against the Death Penalty. The last year, for example, saw a near record lows of seeking the Death Penalty and carrying out executions. But barr said, this is what the system demands, that this is the way to carry out justice for these victims. And just briefly, just to avoid any confusion there. Our states primarily in the south that still have the Death Penalty for state convicts for those adjudged guilty of capital crimes in state courts. So this is only in the federal system. Right. So, for example, if are you charged in a state. Even if the state doesnt have the Death Penalty but you are convicted in the federal system and you go at the time Death Penalty, then you go on federal death row. Barr says all these five inmate versus exhausted their legal appeals. There are 60 inmates now on federal death row. Timothy mcvey i believe is the last in the federal system. Not the last. Among those only three. Only three that were ever carried out in the modern era of the Death Penalty of the federal system. Pete williams, storeer of all knowledge, thank you so much, pete. Coming up, did Robert Muellers testimony change the calculus for those impeachment proceedings that democrats, some democrats want . 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Get 100 back when you bring in an eligible phone. Click, call, or visit a store today. Would you agree that it was not a hoax that the russians were engaged if trying to impact our election . Absolutely. It was not a hoax. The indictments we returned against the russians, two different ones, were substantial in their scope. Robert mueller trying to sound the alarm about russias continuing threat to our elections. That did not stop the Republican Senate meters from blocking votes on two security measures wednesday. Many democrats now worry muellers appearance was not the spark they needed to gather support for impeachment inquiry. Democratic congresswoman Jackie Speier joins me right now. Thank you so much. I know its been a long day and night and morning for you. But i want to ask about the caucus yesterday. There are some reports that chairman nadler from judiciary and Speaker Pelosi disagreed in the caucus last night as to whether to move now to impeachment some sort of frame for impeachment that could create articles of impeachment. Can you shed some light on that . Well, i think what we have here is a chair of a committee that is prepared to take up an impeachment inquiry and is going to follow the lead of his speaker as are all of us. Now, many of us have come forward, indicating that we want to see an impeachment inquiry started. And i think the leader, frankly, is coming closer to that way of thinking. I mean, th

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