Whats happening, he knows what roger knows about him, how much negotiation is there going to go on right now with sentencing coming, the type of prison, whether its allenwood, lewisberg, something much less pleasant, where they dont have a tennis court, where theres white collar criminals or sleaze balls, how much negotiation is the president capable of right now . In terms of where roger stone is sentenced, if hes sentenced to prison, thats not up to anyone other than the bureau of prisons. Didnt barr get involved with Manafo Manafort . The bureau of prisons does report to the attorney general. But in almost every case ive heard of, its a designation based on risk and how much time
is to be served. A second point, i also think roger stone has rendered himself absolutely useless. He has lied almost every time hes opened his mouth. It would be very hard for prosecutors to turn to him now to get Additional Information that they could use against others. Roger stone is useless. Hes a convicted felon. He ought to go to jail. Hes facing at his age what could be life in prison. As glenn was talking about, if you total up the number of years its a lot, but if you look at the sentencing guidelines that will ultimately determine the range in which he will be sentencing, i assure you it will be significantly less. Roger right now knows hes facing long term, not 50 years, not 20, but maybe the rest of his life. It will be more time than he wants to serve. Hes a player, hell come up with something. Whats his last gambit here . Thats my point, hes useless now, hes lied every time he opened his mouth. Pardon is his only avenue. How does he get a pardon . The president. How do you get it from him . We know donald trump has an open line with his lawyers. Let me reset for a moment. Were moments away from the second part of the questioning of former u. S. Ambassador to ukraine Marie Yovanovitch. This morning perhaps the most impactful witness of this short public phase so far into the impeachment of donald trump. Shes the third person to testify in public hearings. Her testimony this morning took us through stage 1, perhaps, it may end up being later than that, but certainly the early part of what is publicly loan about Donald TrumpsPressure Campaign in ukraine. It was assisted by Rudy Giuliani. It involved smearing Marie Yovanovitch, an anticorruption crusader in the words of congressman Eric Swalwell who was part of the questioning this morning. And her removal was ultimately carried out by donald trump himself. He also smeared her in a Phone Conversation with president zelensky, the new leader of ukraine. Coincidentally we heard today that she flew home on the day of the new president s inauguration, a highly unusual move, something ambassador mcfaul has tweeted out was only meant and only designed to embarrass her. Weve also been covering the breaking news that Donald Trumps oldest and longestserving political adviser roger stone was today found guilty of seven counts. They include lying to congress, something that may land with a thud for any witnesses in the Impeachment Trial or impeachment
proceeding of donald trump. Were expecting to hear next week from some of the witnesses who had firsthand knowledge of Donald Trumps statements and conduct in the Smear Campaign and the Pressure Campaign in ukraine. Chris . Nancy pelosi, the speaker, who is really the impressaro, she said, quote, weve been very busy but all the reaction weve heard is very positive. Were very proud of adam schiff and the courage of the witness. So i think theyre very happy with what theyve put on today in terms of fact witness. And i think that what they have to blunt, to the degree that republicans threw ten pounds of cold spaghetti against a wall and trying to see what stuck, the witnesses proximity to the misconduct. Yovanovitch is a victim of the
misconduct. Thats exactly right. So its a fair question to ask these witnesses, whether or not they spoke directly to the president or participated in all these meetings, to show that their knowledge is limited. That doesnt mean that what they said is untruthful. And to your point, nicolle, she is the victim. Shes patient zero. Its a great way to think about her. This is what started the process. And so of course the answer would be she didnt speak to the president. He wouldnt have, you know, given her what she was entitled to, which was an explanation for why she was removed from a job she was doing well. He doesnt have that sort of grace. We know he knows who she is because he smeared her in a call with zelensky. Absolutely, and did it again today. And so i think its really interesting to think of her in that way. Her knowledge will be limited. Shes the victim. Claire, youve been as impassioned as ive seen you, watching this testimony this morning. What are you looking for in the second session . Well, its going to be interesting to see how the republicans handle her. I think what they will try to do is use the transcript of the call and try to place on zelenskys lap the fact that he said he didnt like her and that he didnt want her there and that she supported the previous president. So she will have to battle out from that and counter that. And im sure, as a professional, she never took a position in an election, you dont do that. As a Career Diplomat, You Dont Side with one candidate over another. It would be like her taking sides in an american election, she would never do that. So shell have to battle out from that. Then theyll try to say so what, and just bank on the fact that folks that agree with them are going to tune a lot of this out. I always get this almost visceral reaction to things that arent normal. Its not normal for a president to say, hey, whos your pick. This isnt star search. We dont ask other leaders who do you want. She had served, as she said, in hardship posts. She was an american advocate for American National security. Whats even the appropriate explanation for trump talking to zelensky about her selection as ambassador . Its not appropriate. And by the way, lets get this Dirty Little Secret out there. Theres two kinds of ambassadors. One are the Career Ambassadors who are typically placed in countries where there is a lot of pressure, complications, and conflict. And then theres the campaign donors. They are usually placed in Caribbean Islands or in very stable european countries. They are are placed places where they cant screw things up. Not this president. He sends this guy who is a hotelier, you know, who knows nothing about Whats Going On, into the eu in the middle of brexit, right . And then tasks him with going over and helping out rudy
digging up some dirt in the ukraine. And meanwhile, this Career Diplomat was there, she was placed there because it was hard. And they needed a professional, a competent professional. And so all you had to do is look and see how this president , and we ought to really do away with letting people buy ambassadorships, its tacky. Its not good for our country. Its time four that r that to e. Once we root out the criminality, well go after all thats tacky, jason. Just thinking back, sitting through all of the republican the five minutes which sometimes felt like 50, there was everything from devin nunes badly written smear about a ukrainian sequel. It went from kitschy to outright slander. Whats sort of the calculation that they have to make with yovanovitch . Youve got three audiencaudi
youve got the president s audience which is scream and yell and throw meat, then theres the fox news audience where you try to get the moments that the witness is flustered or cant come up with an answer. Then theres making this look good for your fellow members of congress. Theyre going to have to vote. Some of them are in purple districts or districts where theyre challenged. Theyre fighting for three different audiences here. You can see who is doing what role. The Fox News Stuff is devin nunes. Hes going through the qanon conspiracies that sean hannity will love. Then you have jim jordan who is screaming and attacking and yelling. Then the rest will come in and say, guys, we have to rally and protect the president. The problem is, i dont think any of those three prongs of attack will be effective with this witness. As weve seen, shes not going to talk outside of what she was. Her testimony is, i was intimidated, i had to leave the country in the middle of the night because i didnt want Somebody Throwing Acid in my face and Rudy Giuliani were conspireing against me. They have three points, they want to bring up hunter biden as soon as they can and say did you think there was something fishy about the son of the Vice President having this contract for 50,000 with burisma, get her off her high horse, thats what theyll try to do. Theyll also go after the crazy conspiracy involving 2016 and ukraine. Then theyll ask for the whistleblower again. They started with the same m. O. As on wednesday. They start with these pain in the butt points of order just to slow down the rhythm that you know the chairman wants to try to establish, a dramatic opening, heart of it, close, remind everybody what youre saying. Theyre trying to disturb that, just distraction. Theyre going to go after that stuff again. Point of order, why cant we
question the witnesses about the whistleblower, because that seems to work with their 40 . And then you go after the whole thing with the ukraine which is crazy. But hunter biden is rich territory, because i think nobody here or anywhere else doesnt think that was a problem for the democrats. Thats a problem no matter how well the Vice President may have behaved in that matter, having his son representing part of the problem over there is a problem. And Everybody Knows it. I dont know that that moves anybody. Its a point to make. Thats true. If theyre trying to make one. They can bang on it as much as they want but the interesting thing is, the more the republicans talk about hunter biden, the more it makes what the president tried to do seem corrupt. The president is chasing after him because he was trying to affect the future election. I know why theyre doing it. I just dont necessarily think that convinces your average person. Clearly they wouldnt be doing it now, based on the recent polling, they would not be doing any of this, they would be going after buttigieg, thats
what they would be doing. And i think to your point, chris, about hunter biden, i think thats why dan goldman made such an important point in asking yovanovitch about, if in removing a general prosecutor who was not actually doing anything to prosecute any corruption in the ukraine, wouldnt that make hunter biden more vulnerable . Because if youre going to work to put someone in office who is going to aggressively go after corruption thats actually counter to their narrative about what joe biden was doing. And i think that was an incredibly elegant moment in making sure hes buttressing against that kind of argument. So convicted felon roger stone leaving court right now. Roger stone found guilty on seven counts that include lying to congress. Lets listen and see if we catch him answering questions. Glenn, What Happens Next . Youre still there. Glenn kirchner, can you hear us . Yes, im here. Were watching this picture, i dont know if you can see it, i dont know where youre standing outside the courthouse, were watching roger stone leave the courthouse. I watch enough tv to wonder who gets to walk out of the courthouse in their suit and who has to report. When does the Sentencing Phase happen . What happens next . Yeah, so i assume, by the fact that i just saw on the monitor roger stone walk out right up the street here, the judge has declined to order him detained pending sentencing. I will say, nicolle, as a former Career Prosecutor thats disappointing to me. I think he is facing decades in prison, at least statutorily. As chuck said, far less under the guidelines, but still multiple years. Not many people get to walk free once a jury has announced that theyve been convicted of multiple felony counts. Now, in what is the equivalent of a white collar case, often offenders once convicted are released pending sentencing so they can, among other things, get their affairs in order. I do think that there is something of a disparity we could talk about. Its clear that judge Amy Berman Jackson thought the right balance to strike was to allow roger stone to remain on release pending sentencing until he returns to hear what his sentence will be. Chris, im struck that a presidency in crisis, and i worked in one in crisis, not of this nature, tries to create Split Screen Moments. Todays Split Screen Moment is between the testimony of lifelong diplomat Marie Yovanovitch and the conviction of Donald Trumps longest serving political adviser. Well, were in a period of a
lot of clashing going on. Weve got the democratic fight for nomination, weve got impeachment of President Trump, weve got all these fellow travelers, to use a phrase from the cold war, in criminality case. I dont think donald trump imagines he controlled the timing of the jury verdict today, maybe he does because he thinks everything is controlled by great personalities, but i dont think it is. I think hes facing a very bad situation right now. I dont think it will change his behavior. I think its going to become more egregious. I think we saw that today with his inability to stay out of this hearing. The fact that he had to jump in, that he had to commit the crime, perhaps, that hes been accused of already of tampering with witnesses and abusing his official position, which hes president of the United States, hes not just some character in a basement putting out emails or tweets. Hes president. The president of the United States said today that this person goes around the world
causing trouble and is not to be believed. They are the problem, not the solution to our diplomatic situation in the world. Thats an amazing charge, apart from all this context, the president of the United States is saying this about an individual hes never met, and really knows nothing about except that she was in his way. In his way of what, is the 64 million question. Lets reset how we got here. Weve been covering the conviction of roger stone today. The roger stone conviction an offshoot, chuck, of the mueller probe. The day after robert s. Mueller testified before congress, july 24th, this last summer, you and i were sitting next to each other covering that, the next day, july 25th, that donald trump made the fateful phone call at the center of his own impeachment. If you could just sort of talk about the sweeping picture of criminality, of misconduct, and of brazenness. Its like a teen that gets away
with sneaking out one night, the next night takes the car, the next night he does it drunk. So broad picture, what we have seen from this president is a brazen attempt to obtain for himself information that he can use to his political advantage. What he offered in return were two things, a meeting at the white house, as we heard from mr. Taylor and mr. Kent on wednesday. Thats a big deal for ukraine and a big deal for a new ukrainian president. It gives them stature, it gives them standing in the eyes of the world. Mr. Zelensky very much wanted that. Theres another thing they very much wanted in ukraine which the president also held back, which was military assistance. As we also learned on wednesday, some people probably knew this a long time before i did, ukraine is under grave threat from the russians. Russians possess, have taken 7 of ukrainian territory, an area
about the size of texas. Ukrainian soldiers are dying in ukraine. This week. Ambassador taylor said, this week. In ukraine, ukrainian soldiers are dying at the hands of russians. Put that in an american context. Could you imagine if american soldiers were dying in america right now at the hands of russians . Because thats whats happening there. And thats how crass this scheme was, right, to leverage two things that the ukrainians wanted and needed in return for political dirt on an opponent. Thats where we are. And to your point, nicolle, i mentioned earlier in a different context, i love timelines as a prosecutor. The timing is amazing. Bob mueller testifies about russian interference in the american 2016 president ial election. And the next day, President Trump asks for the ukraine to interfere in the upcoming president ial election. I just got this, i should have read it before. Liz cheney, one of the top three republicans in the house, a very Strong National security person, as her father was, clearly, she said now that the president s interference in the hearings this morning by putting out that tweet attacking yovanovitch was wrong and she said, basically shes a Public Servant of the United States for decades, i dont think the president should have done that. She speaks for a lot of the hawkish people, the national 1k50u security people, the john bolton people. There is a schism in the Republican Party between old line hawks, if you will, and this president , who doesnt have a Foreign Policy except hes very prorussian. She also served with yovanovitch. Liz cheney was in the george w. B