Students and a teacher dead, and many others seriously wounded, Filmmaker Michael Moore made the Academy Awardwinning film bowling for columbine about americas attachment to firearms and the seemingly relentless march of gun violence in our country. Tonight, wherever you come down on this gun debate, you may find this films graphic images disturbing. You may find at times it raises more questions than it answers. But this is a very special presentation of Michael Moores film. It is not produced by msnbc. It is part of this special presentation. Michael joins me before and after this film, and he is here right now. Michael moore, thank you for doing this. Thank you very much for having me on tonight and for letting me share my film with the american public. Why do you see this as relevant now . What people are about to see in a moment or two, why did you choose to present some of the violence and the images the way you did . This is a very, very difficult issue to grapple with. There are over 300 million guns in peoples homes in this country. No other nation on earth has the level of gun violence that we have. Ive wanted to ask the question why. Why us . Were good people. This is a good country. Why do we kill so many of our own . Why do we have such a high suicide rate . Why you know, the day that the columbine shooting happened, that afternoon, my crew and i decided, we have to do something about this. We have to make a documentary about this. We have to make sure that there is not another i remember saying this that day that there is never another School Shooting. Sadly, here we are, some, what, 17 years later, and there was more than one columbine. There have been, well, you know, a mass shooting is defined as four people are shot in the shooting. Theres an average now of one a day. Of the School Shootings, churches, synagogues, shopping malls, every months, there is one of those, sometimes more than once a month. This film is one that many activists and many people ifected ifect affected by this issue urged policymakers and others to watch. Is that part of what you set out to do . Yes. Did you want to shock people . No. Its shocking enough when your child comes home at 7 years old and said that he or she participated in an active Shooter Drill in school. They had to either run for their lives or hide and have the fear in them at 7 years old that they could die in the next ten seconds. Thats the thats the common denominator amongst are all americans, regardless of what your politics are. I dont think any of us want to live in that society. We want to change that society. Yes, i made this in the hopes of change. You mentioned the some of the graphic or shocking images that people will see in the film. I put them in there because i think it is important not to look away. We need to face this down as americans. Yes, it is hard to watch, but i remember as a child, when the vietnam war was going on, watchi watching nbc news. A captain or colonel pulled a prisoner of war in the street. On nbc, puts a gun to his head and blows it, literally, his brains come out the other side. Im a child watching this. Now, in the wars since vietnam, they dont show that on the evening news. Ill tell you this, seeing that, seeing that little girl in vietnam, burning the skin off her body, running down the road, those images are powerful, and they played a role in ending that war. Right. Youre talking about the link between the storytelling and what we do about it as a society. Yes. Michael, what were going to do is the screening. Youll stick around, and well talk more on the policy and politics afterwards. We turn now to a special screening of bowling for columbine. Michael moore and i will return at the end of the film. The National Rifle association produced a film which you are sure to find of great interest. Lets look at it. It was the morning of april 20th, 1999. It was pretty much like any other morning in america. The farmer did his chores. The milk man made his deliveries. The president bombed another country whose name we couldnt pronounce. Out in fargo, north dakota, williams went on his morning walk. Back in michigan, mrs. Hughes welcomed her students for another day of school. Out in the little town in colorado, two boys went bowling at 6 00 in the morning. Yes, it was a typical day in the United States of america. Can i help you . Im here to open up an account. What type of account would you like . I want the account where i can get the free gun. Okay. I spotted an ad in the local michigan paper that said if you opened an account at North Country bank, the bank would give you a gun. You do cd, and well hand you a gun. We have a brochure you can look at. Once we do the background check and everything, its yours to go. Right. Okay. All right. Thats the account id like to open. We have a vault which at all times we keep at least 500 fear arms. 500 of these you have in your vault . In our vault. Wow. We have to do a background check. At the bank here . At the bank. We are a licensed firearm dealer. You are . What do i put for race . White or caucasian or caucasian. I knew you were going to make me spell it. Caucasian. Is that right . Yes. I dont think that is the part you need to be worried about. Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective or committed to a Mental Institution . What does that mean, adjudicated mentally defective . Involved with a crime. Okay. If im normally mentally defective but not criminal . Exactly. There you go, mike. Thank you very much. Wow. I have one personally. Thats nice. It is. Straight shooter. Its a straight shooter. Let me tell ya. Wow. Sweet. Well, heres my first question. Do you think it is dangerous handing out guns at a bank . Gungho each gun makes lots of battle sounds. Just press the trigger and listen. This sounds like a gun battle over there. Is it real . Looks like real. It sounds like real. Right. The soundopower military and western rifles. This was my first gun. I couldnt wait to go outside and shoot up the neighborhood. Those were the days. I was born in michigan and i wish that i was back in the town where i was born by the time i was a teenager, i was such a good shot, i won the National Rifle associations marksman award. I grew up in michigan, a gunloverer es paradise. So did this man. The oscarwinning actor and president of the National Rifle association, mr. Charlton heston. We come from a state where everyone loves to go hunting. Even the dogs. There were actually two of the hunters at the camp. Thought theyd get a few pictures of the dog dressed up as a hunter to kind of, you know, have some fun around camp. One of the guys had the idea that, why dont we sling a rifle on the dogs back to make the pictures a little more interesting. The victim was kneeling down in front of the dog when the weapon slipped. The one round went through the victims shin, the right part of his shin, and came out through the back of his calf. Was the dog held for any period of time by the police . No, it wasnt. No. In michigan, law basically states that people can commit crimes. Animals arent some form of, you know cannot commit a crime. An animal cannot commit a crime or be charged in the state . Exactly. Is it possible the dog knew what it was doing . That, i dont know. I really wouldnt be able to tell you that. The dog was cute dressed up as a hunter. No doubt about it. I mean, it was a funny picture. To look at, it was kind of neat. Yup. This was the kind of place i was from. Box of 270s. There you go. Perfect. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Sorry about that. Sorry. Its all right. Didnt discharge. You dont need no gun control. We need some bullet control. We need to control the bullets. Thats right. I think all bullets should cost 5,000. 5,000 for a bullet. You know why . Because if a bullet costs 5,000, thered be no more innocent bystanders. Every time somebody gets shot, you be like, dang, he must have done something. That [ bleep ] spent 5,000 worth of bullets on him. People will think before they kill somebody if a bullet costs 5,000. Man, i would blow your [ bleep ] head off if i could afford it. Im beginnigoing to get me anot, start saving money, and youre a dead man. You better hope i cant get no bullets on layaway. Not far from where Charleston Heston and i grew up is a Training Ground for the michigan militia. For selfdefense, whatever technical standpoint. It is a small target. Also represents the vitals on a on a human being, should you ever have to shoot at one. The michigan militia became known around the world when, on april 19th, 1995, two guys living in michigan who had attended militia meetings, Timothy Mcveigh, and terry nichols, grew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City. Killing 168 people. The michigan militia wanted everyone to know they were nothing like mcveigh and nichols. This is an american tradition. It is an american responsibility to be armed. If youre not armed, youre not responsible. Who is going to defend your kids . The cops . The federal government . No, none of them. It is your job to defend your a s and you. If you dont, youre were not the boogeyman. Were here to defend the people of this country. Youre the people people would like to have as their neighbor. Somebody is in need, youre there to help them. Pretty much. Were all normal people. We all have regular jobs, professions. This is what we do on our own time. What job do you have . Draftsman. How about you . Unemployed. Frank, what do you do for a living . Work for a heat treating company. Drive truck for them. How about you . Im a real estate negotiator. Real estate negotiator. White collar all the way. You dont bring that with you, do you, when youre negotiating the real estate . No. All right. Where do you live . Westland. What do you have in your home . 9 millimeter. How about you . 12 gauge. 12 gauge at home. Yup. How about you . M16. At home . Yup. Yeah. At the ready. I dont agree with that. You have to worry about where the rounds are going. I know where theyre going when i aim and shoot. Whose idea was the callan du calendar . Probably kristen. It is a level of sophistication, and you wouldnt except it from the militia. Were people too, and we have fun. It was a fundraiser. It showed that were not so serious, you know. The conspiracy nuts were not, wouldnt want the pictures to get out. It was a fun fundraiser, you know. Ive had guns pretty much since i was old enough to have them. Yeah. I learned how to use them. Youre silly. Because being a female, number one, i felt it was important to be able to protect myself with the best means possible. One of those means is having a gun. When a criminal breaks into your house, who is the first person youre going to call . Most people will call the police because they have guns. Cut out the middleman. Take care of it. Take care of your own family yourself. If youre not going to protect your family, who is . Mama. Were not racist. Were not extremists. Were not fundamentalists. Were not terrorists or militants or other such nonsense. Were just concerned citizens. We have a desire to fulfill our responsibilities and duties as americans. Armed citizenry is a part of that. I wish that i was in michigan down on the farm we present limu emu doug with this key to the city. [ applause ] its an honor to tell you that Liberty Mutual customizes your Car Insurance so you only pay for what you need. And now we need to get back to work. 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What do you grow here . Tofu soybeans. Tofu farmer . Food farmer. I grow food for people to eat. No herbicides or pesticides. All natural . Right. Better. Certified organic. Healthier. Yeah. Basically, yeah. This is james nichols, the brother of terry nichols. James graduated from high school the same year i did in the district next to mine. On this farm in decker, michigan, mcveigh and the nichols brothers made practice bombs before Oklahoma City. Terry and james were arrested in connection to the bombing. U. S. Attorneys formally linked the nichols brothers with Timothy Mcveigh. Officials charged james, at the tearing, and terry, who was not, for conspireing to make and possess small bombs. Terry nichols was convicted and receive ad a life sentence. Timothy mcveigh was executed. The feds didnt have the goods on james, so the charges were dropped. Im glad to be free and get on with my life. Did Timothy Mcveigh stay here . Yes. Longest period, three months or so. I dont know. He was a nice guy. Decent guy . Oh, yeah. They didnt find anything on this farm . As to what . Bombmaking material . Any explosives. Yeah. I had blasting caps, dynamite fuse, black powder, you know, sure. Diesel fuel, fertilizer. It is normal farm stuff. It is no way connected in any way whatsoever to the Oklahoma City bombing or bomb making. Them people, Law Enforcement if you want to call them that, were here, and they were shaking in their shoes. They were physically shaking. Scared to death. Of . Because they thought this was going to be another waco. Because certain people, namely my exwife and other people, said im a radical. Im a wild man. I got a gun under every arm, down every leg, every shoe, every corner of the house. You Say Something to me, ill shoot ya. If the people find out how theyve been ripped off and enslaved in this country by the government, by the powers to be, they will revolt with anger, merciless anger. There will be blood running in the streets. When the government turns to radical, it is your duty to overthrow it. Why not use gandhis way . He didnt have guns, and he beat the british empire. Im not familiar with that. Bad habit of raising psychos. Bad habit of it. This is brent. This is his buddy, dj. They live in oscoda, michigan, across the bay from the nichols farm. Eric harris, who would later commit the massacre at Columbine High School in colorado spent part of his childhood here. Eric lived on the air force base in oscoda, where his dad flew planes during the gulf war. 20 of all the bombs dropped in that war were from planes that took off from oscoda. I asked brent if he remembered anything about eric. I never knew him, but i knew of him. He left here before i got here. Im not sure, about seven years. About the same age of you, so you must have people in your class that yeah. A friend of mine, he knows him. He was in class with him. He lived here all his life. I went to school with him, and it shocked me to hear it on the news. You know, especially a kid from here would be doing that. I didnt last too long in this high school here. I got kicked out, expelled. Why was that . I had a runin with a kid, and i pulled a weapon on him, pulled a gun. A gun . Yeah. What kind . 9 millimeter. I could have made a mess out of the situation. Could have been worse . A lot worse. You could have been eric harris. Could have been. Kick you out of school . Yeah, for 380 days. Or 165 days, whatever a full school year is. Matter of fact, for the longest time, that was my plan, to move out to colorado. Colorado . I got, you know, family out there. Matter of fact, one of my uncles, hes a janitor for columbine school. Really . Yeah. After columbine, what was the second highest in the bomb list because of the reputation you get in the town. Why was your name you mean they did a list of of the suspects. Of students who potentially would call in a bomb threat after columbine. Yes. You were number two on the list . Second or third opt lin the yeah. Why is that . Like i said, this town really gets people down. Why did you single you out . Because i was a troubled kid. You know trouble in school . Oh, yeah. Why did they put you at number two on their list after columbine of the students that could be a threat . Come on. There must be a reason. Okay. The thing is, i have a thing called the anarchist book. It shows you how to make bombs and stuff. If anything went wrong, theyll come to me first. I dont need that. Because you owned a copy of the book. Never made a bomb yourself . Nope. Oh, ive made them. It was nothing big. It wasnt as big as a pipe bomb. I make a tennis ball bomb or Something Like that. Out of the anarchist book, the latest thing i built, i think would have to be i think i made a good 5 gallon drum of napalm. Kids knew you were doing this . Yes. You were number two on the list. Right. Who was number one . I dont know. They never told me that name. Which kind of made me mad. Because you didnt make it number one . Because i didnt make it to number one. I know it is kind of silly, but, you know, i guess it was like an ego thing. Knowing i was number one at something in oscoda, even if it was a bomb threat list. Do you believe it was right to blow up the building in Oklahoma City . Im not saying you did it, but was it right . No, no. Good question, why was the building blowed up . Who blew it up . If someone did it, itd be wrong . Yeah. It is wrong to take lives of those people. Yeah. I use the pen. The pen is mightier than the sword. But you always must keep a sword handy for when the pen fails. I sleep with a 44 magnum under my pillow. Come on. Thats what everyone says. Is that true . Its true. If we were to go the whole world knows that. If we were to look under your pillow now, would we see a 44 magnum . Yes. Honestly . Yes. Would you show us right