Transcripts For MSNBCW Dateline Extra 20191129

So many different stories about what might have happened. He said many things that night. Maybe someone could have shot something at the house. At one point he said that it was 80 suicide. Police had their own theory. I thought, oh, man, theres something going on here. We dont see a lot of women that commit suicide naked. Conrads stories were not adding up. But Something Else wasnt adding up either. A key piece of evidence. We went to the house, and we walked in and we think, aha would a mistaken measurement send an innocent man to prison . Or free a guilty one . We thought it was over. We thought this was settled. One suspect, so many stories. Only one of them could be true. Somethings going to break, and when it does, the truths going to be known. As night fell. Hello and welcome to dateline extra. Heidy and truman had a bond envied which others. But in one tragic even, a gunshot rang out, and in the blink of an eye, heidy was on the floor clinging to life. Conrads behavior in the minutes and hours that followed would be highly debated for years. Detectives would focus on the grieving husband, but were they looking at the wrong man . Heres josh mankiewicz. They seem so incongruous, the soaring majesty of utahs wasatch mountains, and the story of a beautiful woman, struck down in her youth. It was a lot of things. Tragic. Crushing. Stunning. But was it an accident . Or a suicide . Or a murder . Police felt they knew, but as most cops will tell you, both the evidence and the jury have their own stories to tell. And the answers not always so clear. Certainly that is true for this story and, quite possibly, for the woman at its heart. Her name . Heidy wagner. As the baby, she was favored. Everybody loved her. She could do no wrong. Autumn was one of heidys four sisters. She was just special. You know, shed walk into the room and shes ready for that good time. Heidy grew up with no fewer than seven older siblings. Tell me about her growing up. She was a funloving girl. She was rather shy, though, so heidy seemed an appropriate name. Heidys mom, janet. The family would get together and we were kind of loud and boisterous sometimes and she kind of got embarrassed easily. Shed hide her face. As heidy got older, she was still cute and bubbly, but make no mistake. Heidy was no pushover. She was kind of intimidating, actually. For being so small, you wouldnt think so. At just 20, heidy started working in the not entirely feminine gas and Chemical Industry just outside salt lake city. Sandi sanchez was one of heidys coworkers. We worked with hazardous chemicals and gasses. Crazy things that you wouldnt expect a couple of girls to want to do. Heidy seemed to thrive in a workplace that favored hard hats over heels. It was dangerous if you didnt follow the rules. In fact, quote from heidy, everything is dangerous, its just what will kill you the quickest. To sandi, heidy became more than a coworker. I considered her my best friend. Shes a person that you knew would never stab you in the back. Shes a person that you knew would always have your back. In person she could be both, sweet and salty, and that caught the attention of one of her colleagues, 25yearold Conrad Truman. I noticed her first in the hallway. What did you think . I thought she was cute, and i noticed her hard hat, and they have a little personality or stickers, you know. And hers said, its all about me. Deal with it. I was kind of thinking this girls kind of a feisty girl. Soon conrad asked heidy out on a date. Im not that type usually. I dont get super serious right off the bat, but it was almost like we were enseparable after that. That first night . Yeah, yeah. This tough girl even shared conrads interest in guns. We would go to the range out of town and shooting in the hills. Heidy knew how to handle a handgun . Yes. One year into their courtship, conrad decided to pop the question. In true utah form, he chose a mountain on which to do it. Did she have any idea it was coming . No. So i got on one knee, and i asked her and i started bawling. And she just said yes right off the bat. Conrads sister colette couldnt believe it when her brother first introduced heidy to the family. I was actually really sort of surprised when i first met her, like how did he land that girl . They just seemed to be such a great match. You saw love and chemistry there . Oh, it was almost awkward. They were definitely an enviable couple. Another year later came the wedding. It was amazing. We went up on a lift, a chair lift, then all of the guests left down these slides. So it was just so them. They said their vows, and hes kind of doing this champion pose like he was just everything was right with the world. The enviable couple was just starting out with a future as bright as their smiles. Until, that is, a sunday evening in september 2012, three years after the trumans were married. Tell me about that day. That day was like, just like any other day. As night fell, heidy decided to take a bath. Conrad said he went to the kitchen to get something to eat. As he fixed himself a sandwich, he said he heard a noise coming from the direction of the bathroom. It was like the new years poppers or the halloween poppers where you can pull two strings or you can pull one and confetti and stuff comes out. Thats when conrad said he turned and saw heidy standing there in the hallway naked. She wasnt talking. She wasnt talking at all. She was coughing, she was heaving. And she was bleeding . She was bleeding out of her mouth and her nose. I needed to call 911 immediately. 911, what city is your emergency . Utah. Come quick an unimaginably shocking scene. Heidy on the Kitchen Floor in a pool of her own blood. Conrad on the phone pleading for help. Theres so much blood. If you dont get here right now, shes going to die. I dont know what happened. I really dont know what happened. Oh, my god. It was bad to begin with and it got so much worse. As you will learn, truer words may never have been spoken. What had happened in that house . Coming up im asking him, conrad, whats going on . He said, i dont know what happened. Everything was just different answers and different theories, different Little Things. A search for answers and a race to save heidy. This is not happening. This is really not happening. I really dont understand any of this. This is so crazy. When as night fell continues. Its rukmini here from the new york times. Hey, you see this . Something was wrong at the truman house. She came out of the shower, and i heard a pop, and theres blood and shes in blood i have officers and paramedics on the way. Okay . The 911 call came into the orem, utah, Police Department at about 11 00 p. M. That september night back in 2012. We got a call of a gunshot wound or some sort of injury. Sergeant bill crook went to the truman home. So we all kind of rushed to our cars and headed that direction with lights and sirens. On the other end of the phone was conrad, kneeling on his Kitchen Floor covered in blood and consumed by panic. It was devastating. It was a nightmare. You cant even explain it. With one hand he held the phone. With the other, his bleeding wife. It was so hard. When its your loved one like that. I had no i just did the best i could to try to keep her breathing. By then, conrad said he realized heidy had been shot in the head. When you went to heidy, did you see a gun . No. He remembered the pop he had heard and wondered if a stray bullet might have come through the bathroom window and hit heidy. I was trying to think of the noise and how it wasnt very loud and, you know, maybe someone could have shot something at the house. It seemed farfetched but he said neighborhood vandals had recently been shooting the back of his house with paint balls. I was utterly confused. Within minutes, sergeant crook arrived. Conrad by now had moved to the doorway of his home to wave crook down. He had blood on his hands and he was screaming and shrieking. Conrad led the sergeant through the front door, up the stairs, and then into a scene straight from a horror movie. I could see heidy laying there. She was naked, blood everywhere, just right at the top of the stairs, just this horrific scene. Whats conrad doing . Hes screaming and hes yelling. And, as these Police Photos make clear, covered in blood. Im asking him, like, conrad, whats going on . What happened here . He said, she was in the bathroom, you know, and just, i dont know what happened. Everything was just different answers and different theories, different Little Things. Right away crook went to check one of those theories, a stray bullet perhaps coming through the bathroom window. The window was closed but theres no bullet hole. Nothing to indicate that anybody fired a shot. Thats correct. Crook returned to the kitchen, and thats when he discovered a gun lying on the Kitchen Floor. What did you think had happened . Honestly, i didnt know. Was this an accident . An attempted suicide . Or something far more sinister . At least for now, those answers would have to wait. Heidy was clinging to life. My focus at that time was, honestly, was to help heidy. Paramedics took heidy to a nearby hospital. Conrad followed in a police cruiser. A dash cam recorded the absolute desperation in his voice. This is not happening. This is really not happening. I really dont understand any of this. This is so crazy. About an hour after conrad arrived, hospital staff delivered the devastating news. Heidy Wagner Truman could not be saved. It was pain, it was misery. It was why, how . In a neighboring town heidys mother janet would soon agonize over those very same questions. It was after midnight when two Police Officers came to her door. What must that be like . The most horrendous thing ever. And i would never want anybody to have to feel that and that pain, that agony of knowing that your daughter, for whatever reason, is dead. Is gone. The officers wouldnt give janet any details. Only where her daughter had been taken. Im driving down to the hospital, and i make a comment to my daughter. I go, you know, autumn, as hard as it is that we lost heidy, were going to have to be supporting conrad because he must be overwhelmed with grief. Conrads sister colette was thinking the same thing as she raced to the hospital. What kind of condition was your brother in then . He was just a total wreck, just absolutely hysterical. Didnt know how it could have happened. No one did. But back at the truman home, sergeant crook had started analyzing the evidence and was already developing a theory. I thought, oh, man, theres something going on here. You got a feeling . I got a feeling, yes. It wasnt just me. Everybody was kind of looking around like theres something wrong here. We need a detective. Coming up was it an accident . Suicide . Shes completely naked. We dont see a lot of women that commit suicide naked. Thats not common. Or Something Else . I felt like they thought i did something. When as night fell continues. Ues. Its tough to quit smoking cold turkey. So chantix can help you quit slow turkey. Along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. With chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. Chantix reduces the urge so when the day arrives, youll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. When you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. Stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or lifethreatening allergic and skin reactions. Decrease alcohol use. Use caution driving or operating machinery. Tell your doctor if youve had Mental Health problems. The most common side effect is nausea. Quit smoking slow turkey. Talk to your doctor about chantix. Easy twist of designtion power. For ultimate versatility. Multiple speeds for optimum control. Transforming ordinary foods into extraordinary nutrition. From the creators of nutrient extraction, comes next level blending. Introducing the allnew nutribullet blender combo. One blender with endless possibilities. Applebees new sizzlin entrees. Now starting at 9. 99. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. pirate girl ahoy excited squeal, giggling panting gotcha man ah girl nooooooooooooo man nooooo girl nooooo. vo quick, the quicker picker upper bounty picks up messes quicker, and is two times more absorbent than the leading ordinary brand. man and pirate girl ahoy laughing vo bounty, the quicker picker upper. As the sun inched above utahs wasatch mountains, questions swirled at their base. How did heidy truman wind up on her Kitchen Floor shot in the head . For sure, police were wondering about her husband. After all, Conrad Truman was in the house when heidy was shot, and there was no evidence of an intruder. I felt like they thought i did something. Soon after he arrived at the scene, sergeant bill crook did begin to have his suspicions. Were telling him, conrad, back off. The paramedics are here. Back off. And he wouldnt. He was what, moving around . Yes. Keeping paramedics from being at the body . Yes, sir. There were other scenarios that needed to be explored, like accident and suicide. Thats where detective tom wallace came in. There had been a number of theories. We obviously are going to exhaust them. Thats going to happen. The medical examiner didnt make wallaces job any easier. His preliminary finding heidys manner of death could not be determined. So wallace tackled each theory one by one. Accident seemed hard to believe. Thanks to conrad, heidy had firearms experience. Can you think of any way it could have been an accident . No. Heidy wouldnt have been so careless. So what about suicide . Shes completely naked. We dont see a lot of women that commit suicide naked. Thats not common. Did you find anybody that heidy had spoken to about suicide or about being depressed . No. Neither heidys mother janet nor her sister autumn could imagine heidy even thinking about taking her own life. Heidy would never do that. In fact, heidy was against that. She had a friend who committed suicide, and she thought it was selfish and, in her words, dumb. Heidy ever tell you she was depressed . No. Ever act depressed . No. She was probably one of my happiest, most upbeat kids. That left wallace with homicide, and it put conrad back in the police crosshairs. Wallace decided to speak to the officers first on the scene about their experience with conrad. Everyone felt his behavior was odd. Hes yelling, but its a violent yelling. Hes like, if you dont save her, im going to [ bleep ] kill you. Crook found those threats so alarming, he took out his phone to record them. Youre gonna [ bleep ] die and everyone in your life is going to die if she dies. It could be the way this guy reacts to trauma, but im telling you it was a red flag at the time. Also a red flag conrad was drunk. He admitted he and heidy had been drinking earlier that night. I could see in his eyes, the redness. Red flag number three. Conrad told crook he and heidy had been arguing. A minor dustup, he said. No big deal. But enough for heidy to draw a bath and ask to be left alone. She went and locked herself in the bathroom. And then he details how he picked the lock and went in the bathroom. And then she kicked him out. To me, thats another its just more proof of there was an argument, a bigger argument. As for the location of the gun itself, that, too, was suspicious. That guns how far from heidy . Oh, i would say eight feet, ten feet maybe. Its far enough away that it wasnt a normal if she shoots herself and falls to the ground type of thing. Next morning they ask conrad to come to the station for more questioning. They can say whatever they want. But i did not hurt my wife. And i know that. Bottom of my heart, i did not hurt my wife. Heidys family thought otherwise. After finally learning from police the details of how heidy died. The minute i heard how she died, i knew he did it. Sounds like he had a temper, and he was very intoxicated, and he did something that perhaps he didnt plan . I just knew he did it. Detective wallace next pored over conrads statements to police about what happened that night. As wallace saw it, conrads story went like this conrad was in the kitchen. Heidy was in the bathroom. At some point conrad heard a pop, and when he turned, he saw heidy standing somewhere between the kitchen and the bathroom hallway bleeding. And he either runs over and catches her or she falls down. Wallace then went back to the truman home, making detailed measurements of the kitchen and surrounding rooms. He wanted to see if conrads story checked out. His conclusion it did not. Her bodys at the top of the staircase. It doesnt add up that she would have traveled that distance he said she had gone then fallen in that location. It was hard for wallace to believe that heidy could have traveled from the bathroom to the stairs after sustaining such a head wound. She would have fallen immediately to the ground. Wallace shared his findings with assistant District Attorney craig johnson. Johnson agreed. Everything pointed to conrad. Why would Conrad Truman want to kill his wife . Under the circumstances, id say the motive was just based on this heat of passion argument that they were having. Alcohol, a fight and guns, thats where we got murder. At the same time johnson was still reluctant to press charges. Remember, the states own medical examiner couldnt say whether heidys death was a homicide. And johnson knew that would be a huge hurdle in court. Based on my experience in courts with juries, a medical examiner carries a lot of weight. So johnson and wallace showed the m. E. A 96page power point presentation of all their evidence including those measurements, hoping something would sway him. The presentation worked. The medical examiner changed his ruling to homicide. It sounds like one of the things that got the medical examiner to move from inconclusive to homicide was the measurements of the crime scene suggested that her body was too far from where mr. Truman said shed been shot. Exactly. So after a tenmonth investigation, the orem p. D. And the d. A. s office arrested Conrad Truman and charged him with his wifes murder. My mom called me and i fell to the ground crying and so happy that he was finally behind bars. Going into trial, what did you think . I thought we had a strong circumstantial case. At trial the prosecution argued Domestic Violence ending in homicide. The defense, selfinflicted gunshot wound. The jury sided with the state. Conrad truman was convicted of heidys murder. It was like, finally got him. Finally got him. And as far as you knew, that was it . That was it. Did you think that was it . I did. But if you think that was it, well then you havent been watching enough dateline. Coming up heidys heartbreak. She did not know her dad, and she had always wanted that. That really bothered her. And Conrad Trumans hope. This is going to work out. It has to because i didnt do this. Its time for the ulti when as night fell continues. Can it help keep us asleep . Absolutely, it intelligently senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. And snoring . No problem. And done. So you can really promise better sleep. Not promise. Prove. Dont miss the final days to save 50 on the sleep number 360 limited Edition Smart bed. Plus free premium delivery setup when you add a base. Ends cyber monday. How did you know . Mom. That was taken at the farm. It was in this small little village. In connemara . Right connemara it is. Honestly, we went there oh, oh look at that look at that. Hey fred its medicare open enrollment. E. Time to compare plans. Were fine with what we have. Thats what the johnsons thought until they tried medicares new plan finder. The johnsons . We saved a lot on our prescription costs and got extra benefits. How bout it, fred. Plans change every year. Use the new plan finder at medicare. Gov. Comparing plans really pays. Look how much we can save. He borrowed billions donald trump failed as a businessman. And left a trail of bankruptcy and broken promises. He hasnt changed. I started a tiny investment business, and over 27 years, grew it successfully to 36 billion dollars. Im tom steyer and i approve this message. Im running for president because unlike other candidates, i can go head to head with donald trump on the economy, and expose him fo what he is a fraud and a failure. Im Milissa Rehberger with your top stories. China is vowing to retaliate against the u. S. After President Trump signed two bills passed almost unanimously in Congress Supporting human rights in hong kong. China also summoned the u. S. Ambassador to warn them the new law would undermine cooperation between the countries during ongoing trade negotiations. Meanwhile, in hong kong today protesters held a thanksgiving rally to thanks the United States for support of the ongoing struggle. Back to dateline. Welcome back to dateline extra. Im craig melvin. The alcohol, the argument, the bizarre statements to the detectives at the scene. It all led to conrad murdering his wife heidy. But conrad held firm. He was innocent. He had more to say about it first in court, and then he wanted to talk to us. Here again is josh mankiewicz. Just more than two years after his wife heidys death, Conrad Truman stood convicted of her murder. He was looking down the barrel of a life sentence when he returned to a utah courtroom to learn his punishment. This is the moment where some convicted killers ask for mercy because of their difficult lives or tell the court theyve been misunderstood. And sometimes, of course, they dont speak at all. But not Conrad Truman. Listen to me, please. I cant say sorry for something i did not do. I understood speaking out would make it way worse, that i was like i dont know. I was like to hell with this. I need to speak my mind. I didnt kill my wife. Theres just no way. If there was proof and i didnt. Thats why there is no proof. You know, this is just a big injustice. The judge had heard that before. The sentence he imposed . 16 years to life. Crushing for conrad and his family sitting behind him including sister colette. You want to believe that things turn out the way that theyre supposed to. And thats just not always the case. In prison conrad did what many do he retraced the steps that led him there. And he thought a lot about the night heidy died. As conrad saw it, the police rush to judgment began precisely when officers first rushed through his front door. This guys drinking, theres firearms in the house. So he must have shot her. Why couldnt it be exactly that simple . This wouldnt be the first time that mixing alcohol, an argument and a handgun led straight to a prison sentence. Conrad told us what he told police. It isnt that simple. Sure, he and heidy had been drinking and, yes, they had been arguing, but he said neither was an explanation for what happened. I could have upset her with some of the things ive said or the way i acted with not being attentive, you know, to her. I know i do that sometimes when i drink. I dont pay a lot of attention. You know . This still doesnt seem like grounds for a gigantic fight. No. It got to the point where i think she was i upset her. I was really i just know she went to go take a bath. Which is what she did when she was a little irritated . Yes. Conrad also shared with us how he picked the bathroom lock, not, he said, to confront heidy, but just to apologize. She just said get out. I was like, okay. So i just let her be. As for conrads behavior after Police Arrived at his door, he said he had good reason for acting that way. I was trying to save my wife. I dont know. Does that make sense . I just wanted her to live. I get how frantic you must have been. Im not sure i understand the threatening part of that. And i think thats one of the things that ended up getting you in trouble. Could be. And i was like, do i have to how do i explain this to you guys . Get her help. And when you cant explain that to someone, i just started i started making threats. Well, if all thats true, then why and how did heidy wind up with a bullet in her head . I think police found it hard to believe that you could be right there with her in a very small area mmhmm. And shes shot, and you dont know what happened. Yeah. Maybe in their heads. In mine, i was confused. Could this be an accident . What i say to that is i didnt see. I dont know what happened. Thats how he felt just hours after the shooting, but as the months passed, conrad came to the conclusion heidy may have taken her own life. His wife, he said, wasnt as tough as she appeared. Was she a sad person . Was she a depressed person . When she drank a little bit, you could see it come out. It wasnt every time. But it did. Heidys friend Sandi Sanchez also saw another side to heidy. That strong, funny, you know, person also had some things inside that were very painful. According to sandi, those things had to do with heidys upbringing. Most significantly, heidy grew up not knowing the identity of her father. That really bothered her. You know, she did not know her dad. And she had always wanted that. It bugged her tremendously. Enough to take her own life . Had she ever attempted suicide before . Never to my knowledge, no. She never talked about it. No. Its very hard to believe that what was going on in heidys life at the time, what seemed like a pretty happy marriage to you, shes going to spur of the moment decide to commit suicide like that . Well, thats a tough question. Its like how do you really know when someones going to do that, you know . As he lived his life behind bars, conrad continued to speculate. He also tried to stay hopeful. I was just like, this is going to work out. It has to because i didnt i didnt do this. Conrads family never gave up on him. So they scraped together the money to hire conrad some new attorneys. Mark and annie looked into the case. To them it was immediately apparent that there were a lot of problems. Mark moffat and Ann Taliaferro were those attorneys. One of the first things they did was visit the scene of the crime. We went to the house, and we walked in and we think, aha. Within moments of being in that home, we knew immediately that there was a huge problem. Not a problem for them. More for the people who had put Conrad Truman away. Coming up is an innocent man in jail for someones mistake in math . We immediately started measuring, and we knew right away that there was a big problem. I remember thinking, well, thats strange. That couldnt be right. When as night fell continues. music if you have moderate to severe psoriasis or psoriatic arthritis, Little Things can be a big deal. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not an injection or a cream. Its a pill that treats differently. For psoriasis, 75 clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. For psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. And the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. It may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. Tell your doctor about your medicines and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Ready to treat differently with a pill . Otezla. Show more of you. Fidelity has zero commissions for online u. S. Equity trades and etfs, plus zero minimums to open a brokerage account. With value like this, there are zero reasons to invest anywhere else. Fidelity. Welcome back. Conrad truman was serving a sentence for murder of his wife heidy, but he had not given up on himself. They had just hired new lawyers, and it was their first visit to the crime scene that confirmed something conran trumans sister had suspected, this case could not have added up to murder. Here again is josh mankiewicz. While Conrad Truman sat in a Utah State Prison marking time, his sister colette searched endlessly for ways to get him out. Was there a time when you or anybody else in your family thought maybe we dont know him as well as we thought we did . No. He couldnt have killed her . Not possible. So much about Conrad Trumans trial bothered his sister colette. But one detail in particular kept gnawing at her. It had to do with the diagrams used by the state depicting the area where heidys body was found. I remember thinking, well, thats strange. Thats that couldnt be right. Postverdict, colette shared her concerns with conrads new attorneys, mark moffat and Ann Taliaferro. They decided to visit the truman home to see for themselves if the states diagrams were accurate. We later made that same trip with moffat who showed us what they discovered. This is the area in question, and its pretty small. It is. Its really small. We immediately started measuring, and we knew right away that there was a big problem with their diagrams and the measurements. The problem . All those measurements were off. Instead of 139 inches, somebody took the figure 139 and interpreted it to be 13. 9 feet. 33 inches became 3. 3 feet. And on and on and on. According to moffat, those flawed measurements, which were used in court, made the house appear much bigger than it was. They used the theme of distance to argue that mr. Truman was lying about where he said his wife was when he heard what turned out to be this fatal shot. At trial, the prosecution argued, to believe conrad, youd have to believe heidy shot herself in the bathroom and then walked 12 feet before falling to the floor. And, according to the medical examiner, that was impossible. He testified heidys head wound was so severe that she could have at most walked a step or two. This issue of distance was this big issue. Now for Ann Taliaferro, just seeing the house and how small it was was proof enough that the prosecutions argument didnt hold up. When you walk in the house, theres no way that theres even 12 feet there. Whats more, according to the defense team, conrad never told the police heidy shot herself in the bathroom. Instead he told them he had no idea where she was when he heard the shot. Tell me your theory of what happened here. We believe that heidy truman shot herself in this very area, and we believe that she fell right in the area directly in front of me on the ground, and thats the very area where she was found when Law Enforcement entered the home that night. Which they also said was completely consistent with the m. E. s testimony that heidy would have fallen after only a step or two. She would have gone to the ground immediately. Your argument is she did fall down. Exactly and she fell right about here. Yes. Thats exactly what our argument is. According to moffat, this was not a simple mistake. Is this just a case of a smalltown Police Department making incorrect measurements or adding up some figures wrong . I dont believe so. I believe that they willfully lied to secure a conviction against Conrad Truman. And for these attorneys, there were more issues with the states case. One had to do with gunshot residue tests. The defense Learned Police swabbed both heidy and conrads hands, but those swabs were never sent to the lab. When you have gunshot residue that was never tested, those things matter. The defense team decided to test those swabs themselves. Conrads hands were negative for residue, but there was a question as to whether conrad had washed his hands before they were tested. So those results were meaningless. Thats probably why they didnt test in first place. As for heidys swabs, there was no residue on her left hand. But there was on her right hand. And significantly, heidy was righthanded. When you have gunshot residue in a location and in a quantity that is absolutely consistent with her firing a semiautomatic weapon, one of the possibilities is that she fired a gun. You cant discount that. The deeper moffat and taliaferro got into the case, the more it seemed to them heidys fatal wound was selfinflicted. They believe the head wound, a contact wound, ruled out homicide. A contact gunshot wound to the right temple are the most common site of selfinflicted gunshot wound that there were. Moffat and taliaferro decided to take their findings to the m. E. Hoping to sway his ruling on the manner of death once again just as police did prior to conrads arrest. We gave him a bunch of information, then he, on his own, with his investigator, went to the home to look at it. And the result was just what theyd asked for. Heidy trumans manner of death, once undetermined, then a homicide, was now officially, once again, undetermined. It was manna from forensic heaven. How often do medical examiners change their findings and then change them back . Ive never had a case where this has happened ever. It took another year, but Conrad Trumans conviction was overturned, and he was granted a new trial. I never even thought that was even a possibility for the medical examiner to change. I never would have thought that. Is there part of the things about i cant get my hopes up . Yeah, thats exactly how i felt. I was beyond happy. We were just absolutely over the moon. For heidys family, it was just the opposite. We couldnt believe it. You thought this was over . We thought it was over. We thought this was settled. That was a hard, hard moment. We hated it. We just thought, so what are they going to come up with this time . And we know thats what youre thinking, too. Coming up a new trial, a new jury, a different verdict . Did those incorrectly entered measurements change your opinion of Conrad Trumans guilt . Should they change anyones opinion . They didnt change my opinion. There was enough there there beyond a reasonable doubt. It was really difficult because why didnt things work out if they didnt work mount the first time, you know . When as night fell continues. Extraction power. Easy twist design for ultimate versatility. Multiple speeds for optimum control. Transforming ordinary foods into extraordinary nutrition. From the creators of nutrient extraction, comes next level blending. Introducing the allnew nutribullet blender combo. One blender with endless possibilities. Were reporters from the new york times. No flights. No roads. Were trying to figure out what animals are being affected. Galapagos is a really challenging place to work. El nino is starting to go haywire. Everywhere is going to get touched by climate change. danny after a long day of hard work. You have to do more work . vo automatically sort your expenses and save over 40 hours a month. danny every day youre nearly fried to a crisp, professionally vo you earned it, were here to make sure you get it. Quickbooks. Backing you. Wthats why xfinity hasu made taking your internetself. And tv with you a breeze. Really . Yup. You can transfer your Service Online in about a minute. You can do that . Yeah. And with twohour Service Appointment windows, its all on your schedule. Awesome. So while moving may still come with its share of headaches. No kidding. Were doing all we can to make moving simple, easy, awesome. Go to xfinity. Com moving to get started. Welcome back. In a stunning turn of events Conrad Truman had been thrown a lifeline. His verdict had been overturned and he was facing a retrial for the murder of his wife heidi. Based on Measurement Errors and the location of her head wound, conrads lawyers were ready to argue that heidi took her own life. But a witness who knew her as long as anyone would tell a different tale. With the conclusion of our story. Conrad truman had been convicted of murder and had already served more than three years. That stunned everyone in the utah countys das Office Especially the man responsible for conrads conviction prosecutor craig johnson. This is something that really took us by surprise. The defense is youve had to have known. Thats their take and theyre doing their job to represent their client and i can tell you categorically thats not correct. Just as stunned was the man whose team took the measurements. Lead detective tom wallace. In the process of transposing numbers, numbers were just transposed wrong. Wallace admits the error but says it was minor, that Conrad Truman did not deserve a new trial. Its not that significant as they made it out to be. Did those incorrectly entered measurements change your opinion of conrads guilt, should they change anyones opinion . It didnt change my opinion. Nor did it change the opinion of the deputy da tim taylor who decided to take on the task himself of prosecuting conrad once again. I still felt there was enough to go forward, but we know going into it, it was going to be tough. At trial the prosecutions case was familiar starting with the officers who testified about conrads rambling often incoherent description of what had happened that night. The core of our case were his inconsistent statements. The story was hard to follow. It was jumping around all over. It wasnt making sense to me. So it was hard to follow. Reporter those officers also told the jury about conrads threats. He was telling us that we were going too slow and we needed to hurry up or he was going to kill us. Ill [ bleep ] kill you if you dont save her life. If you are making these violent threats to people who are there trying to help your wife, how are you treating your wife when its only you and her alone . Reporter taylor then tackled the theory of suicide by calling witnesses to testify heidy was not suicidal. In your experience as heidys mother, was she a sad or depressed person . No. I didnt see her that way. Reporter did heidys not knowing her father or not knowing who he was, did that make her depressed or sad . No, no. Reporter the prosecutor pointed out, conrads story evolved over time. Immediately following the shooting on the way to the hospital. Conrad insisted hide wee never commit suicide. I think something shot her or something. Because she would never shoot herself. Shed never shoot herself. Reporter taylor argued it was only later after suspicion against conrad had mounted that he changed his tune. As for the gunshot residue on heidys right hand, taylor called an expert to say it proved nothing. Nobody can identify a shooter based on the results of this test. That is a major limitation of this test. Reporter defense attorney mark moffat answered by telling the jury that, before being allowed to wash his hands that night, conrad had pleaded with police to confirm he had no residue on them. Hes telling them, test my hands. Test my hands. I didnt shoot a gun. Reporter did you wash your hands before saying that to police . No, i absolutely not. I never washed my hands until they said, go wash your hands. Reporter conrads attorneys were working hard to establish reasonable doubt, and the state medical examiners shifting opinion on heidys manner of death only helped them. Thats your case right there. You would think. Reporter i mean, if he has reasonable doubt, hard to argue a jury shouldnt. Exactly. Reporter the medical examiner told the jury that in the final analysis, he didnt know the manner of heidy trumans death. I finalized the autopsy report with the cause of death as gunshot wound and the manner of death as could not be determined. Reporter the m. E. Also testified how, in his experience, a contact wouldnt like heidys is rare in homicide cases. With the contact gunshot wound, it would be consistent with a wound thats selfinflicted. Reporter after 15 days of testimony, the jury began deliberations. So you felt pretty good leading up to verdict . Yes. There was enough there there beyond a reasonable doubt. Reporter conrad was having a much harder time. It was really difficult. You know . Because why would things work out if they didnt work out the first time . You know what i mean . Reporter eight hours later, the verdict. Hold up your hands. Youre not wearing handcuffs. No cuffs. Reporter youre not in custody. Im free. Reporter thats right. This time Conrad Truman got the verdict he wanted. Not guilty. I just kept saying did they say not . He grabbed my arm. Are you sure . Reporter in the courtroom, conrads family shared tears of joy. I was giggling and crying at the same time. It was weird. Reporter on the other side of the courtroom aisle were tears of a different kind. I felt my heart sink and i just was in shock. Reporter you fainted . I did. I couldnt believe there was a situation where that long shot happened, where he would be freed. Reporter juror Brian Christenson said he and his fellow jurors had no choice but to set conrad free. I believe that we all pretty much felt that he probably did it. Reporter but you voted to acquit. We voted to acquit. Reporter because you had reasonable doubt . We had reasonable doubt. Reporter whether you believe mr. Truman is innocent or not, those measurements either put an innocent man in prison or let a guilty man go free. Well, so youre right. But my opinion hasnt changed. Do i think he got away with murder . Yeah, i do. Reporter whats it like to have your work called into question in a way that frees the guy you helped to convict . Its frustrating to know that a measurement that was inconsequential actually ended up freeing him. Reporter whats life been like for your family since then . Were trying to put the pieces together. Reporter for heidys family, that is easier said than done. I miss the things that we had together. I miss the simple conversations. I miss her sassiness. I miss her wonderful personality. She lives on forever in our hearts. Reporter conrad is left looking both backward and forward. I mean, id do anything to take another day, another walk with her. I loved her. And i do love her still. Reporter you got a lot of life left, a lot. How are you going to live it . To the best of my abilities. Reporter there are jurors who think he might have done it but i had reasonable doubt, i couldnt vote to convict. Well, god bless them. Theres a lot of people who do believe in me. Reporter hes made his own peace with a simple truth the very thing that freed him, reasonable doubt, could also shadow Conrad Truman for the rest of his life. Thats all for this edition of dateline extra. Im craig melvin. Thank you for watching. My parents always told me that monsters dont exist. I can tell you with absolute certainty that is 110 false. He is a monster. A wife and mother killed in her own home. You get a phone call from a screaming irrational voice on the other end. I said is it rachel . I said what do you mean someone came in her house and murdered her . Who