Fbi before he fired him last february. Setting off a new round of questions about whether the president s actions amount to Obstruction Of Justice. Well, if you take the president s own statement, his tweet that he knew Michael Flynn was lying to the fbi when he fired him, which means that he knew Michael Flynn had committed a felony when he asked comey to stop the investigation. And when he fired comey when he refused to do so and when he fired sally yates and when he called Michael Flynn in april to tell him to stay strong. All of these acts are to impede and obstruct justice. A source close to the white house acknowledging the severity of the misstep to the Washington Post which writes a person close to the white house involved in the case turned the saturday tweet a screw up of historic proportions that has caused enormous consternation in
to in legal circles about whether or not a lawyer would have sent a tweet or even dictated a tweet like the one that came from the president s feed on saturday. I think thats why a lot of people find this to be so remarkable, the motion that the president s lawyer would potentially get the president into more legal jeopardy. But john dowd, the president s lawyer over the weekend was very insistent he was the one who dictated this tweet to the social media director. He also acknowledges, as you pointed out, he essentially conflated two things that had previously been set by the president s special counsel ty cobb that Mike Flynn Lied to not only the vice present but to the fbi as well. So theres been a fair amount of Damage Control over the weekend and throughout the day. But its also just very striking this new argument that john dowd is making which is that the president cannot commit Obstruction Of Justice. Argument thats very reminiscent of what Richard Nixon once says after leaving office. If the president does it, its not illegal. Its not a crime. Of course, thats an argument that hasnt been accepted in the past by an awful lot of people including the House Of Representatives which in the nixon case and bill clinton case included Obstruction Of Justice among the articles of impeachment that they lodged against the president s in those questions. Now whether you can charge obstruction in a court of law may be a different thing. Given that a president is in office and impeachment is the main remedy for what wed call high crimes and misdemeanors, the house has clearly made clear it does consider obstruction to be something the president can be held accountable for. Whether these actions count as Obstruction Of Justice or not is a different question. Thats something that is still up for debate. But it is funny to say or it is unusual to say that a president is simply, by virtue of being president , immune from the charges to begin with. Matt, let me bring you in here. You have been doing you have an incredible body of reporting around these questions. I want to ask you specifically about what we learned over the weekend about flynns crime. We learned that flynn was charged with lying to the fbi, but in those charging documents, we learned that he was very far from some sort of rogue actor and i think weve learned since our program that his emails were in communication with k. T. Mcfarland. A Campaign Aide and also getting direction from Jared Kushner. I believe your byline was on this story. New york times, emails dispute white house claims that flynn acted independently on russia. Mr. Trump and his aides have suggested that his concern about flynns potential legal jeopardy was influenced by the president s admiration for his former National Security adviser. But the new details underscore the possibility that the
president may have been worried not just about mr. Flynn but also about whether any investigation might reach into the white house and perhaps the oval office. This seems to get at the heart of the question that remains unknown which is why . Why did Mike Flynn Lie to the fbi about his russia contacts . Any new leads today . Yeah, no, youre absolutely right. Because its not clear that if mike flynn had said to the fbi or even to the Vice President , yeah, i talked to the Russian Ambassador and told him to just cool his jets and dont worry about these new obama sanctions. Well get into office and take care of this. Its not clear if he had said that that there would have really been a problem. Now theres this theoretical logan act violation, which is never successfully been used to prosecute somebody which is this idea that private citizens cant be negotiating against the interests of the United States. So if flynn had been truthful, would we have been in this boat . Im not sure because there were a great many people in the transition who wanted to calm the russians down. Because the russians were key to their Foreign Policy going forward. And ken dilanian, let me bring you in on this specific thread and ask you where the investigation into what the president knew and when he knew it stands right now. Well, just to pick up on what matt was saying, bob bauer has an interesting column today in which he seems to argue that the reason flynn lied is because President Trump may have told him to lie. Obviously, thats an allegation unproven but he theorizes its implausible that donald trump didnt know that mike flynn was going and talking to the russians about sanctions given that others on the Campaign Team knew and were staffing donald trump in maralago. Thats, obviously, an Open Question for us, but, you know, bob mueller knows the answer to it because mike flynn had to offer a proffer before he made
the Sweetheart Deal to plead guilty to one Felony Charge and explain to the special counsel what he would testify to. Not in every detail but in the broad strokes. And so to the extent that mike flynn knows anything about the Trump Campaign and collusion. He was involved to try to get hackers to find Hillary Clintons missing emails . All of that is something Robert Mueller knows the details on and the only question is filling in the blanks, continuing to investigate. Mike flynn knows whether Jared Kushner told the truth. He knows a lot and now as Somebody Else said, he gets up every day wondering how to please Robert Mueller and that cannot be a good thing for this white house. Two more men who may wake up every day wondering how to please Robert Mueller are the White House Counsel Don Mcgahn and the president s soninlaw Jared Kushner. Let me read this from the Washington Post and well talk about it. The post writing, inside the Secretive Nerve Center of the mueller investigation. The stelts morning arrival thursday, last thursday, White House Counsel Don Mcgahn became
the latest in a string of highlevel witnesses to enter the Secretive Nerve Center of special counsel robert s. Muellers investigation into russian interference in the 2016 election. 20 hours later, mueller and his team emerged into public view to Rattle Washington with a dramatic announcement that former National Security adviser Michael Flynn would plead guilty to lying to the fbi. Mb g mcgann was scheduled to return friday but they postponed it to allow mcgann to help the white house manage the response to flynns plea. As ken and matt have suggested, bob mueller knows exactly what don mcgahn told donald trump unless, i guess its always possible hes exerted some sort of privilege suggesting his conversation is with the president , his client would be privileged. But it is likely that with mueller getting closer and closer to the president himself, we will find out in pretty short order what if the president s
tweet over the weekend saying that he was aware that mike flynn had lied to the fbi was something that don mcgahn had told him or not. How worried are all of these senior aides who were sort of in the vortex of this house of mirrors if you will, about whether or not they can simply keep their stories straight from one anothers. Officially, of course, the line here at the white house is that theyre not worried. Theres nothing to be worried about. The point that you make about don mcgahn raises two other issues. One, you have a number of the president s top advisers going in to talk to Robert Mueller. And weve been told thats going to happen in the coming weeks. Number two, the fact that he had friday to come back and deal with the bombshell that flynn had plead guilty to lying to the fbi. I spoke to one source who is close to the president who called that development a very, very, very bad development. Essentially acknowledging what the white house, what the
president s legal team wont say officially which is that, look, this is getting much closer to the west wing, to the president. Now again, and i want to stress this point, the president s legal team says, look, Michael Flynn cant say anything damaging to the president because he doesnt know anything damaging. But there are concerned that even if you believe that line of thought, nicolle, there are concerns about what Michael Flynn might say to Robert Mueller. So i think the point cant be underscored enough. This is getting closer and closer to the president and that is making life very complicated for all of the top advisers here at the white house. Peter baker, let me play you something. Ive heard one of the concerns that the not just this current legal team but the legal teams past that have tried to serve this president in this investigation have had is that theyre not always sure that theyre getting the full story from the president and theyre not always sure theyre getting it first. This was the president with
lester holt. Because my White House Counsel Don Mcgahn came back to me and did not sound like an emergency of any didnt make it sound like he was, you know, and she actually didnt make it sound that way either in the hearings the other day like it had to be done immediately. This man has served for many years. Hes a general. Hes in my opinion, a very good person. I believe that it would be very unfair to hear from somebody who we dont even know and immediately run out and fire a general. Whats so remarkable about that is, we now are going to have a conversation bob mueller is certainly investigating what the white house did after sally yates came to don mcgahn, white House Counsel and said, hey, mike flynn is a potential target for blackmail from the russians. If you believe the president s twitter feed, he also learned at some point that mike flynn had lied to the fbi, even though
sally yates testified to congress that thats not exactly what she said to don mcgahn. But they have in the president someone who conflates interactions. Someone who projects onto interactions certain things. I cant imagine that anyone in this white house is going to testify under oath or to bob muellers investigators that there was nothing to worry about. Theyve been warned that flynn was a potential target for blackmail by russians. I imagine the things they did from that moment until the day he was fired are very much under close, close scrutiny. You are exactly right. A couple weeks and it was only after it was publicized in the Washington Post that they did Fire General Flynn at that point which, of course, always raised the question of why alarm bells didnt go off and why they didnt take it more seriously in a quicker fashion. It was the very first days of the administration. And they were busy and consumed by lots of different things. A lot of fires going. Some of which they had set themselves. And, you know, clearly they had not focused on this the way they would, you know, in hindsight the way youd say they probably should have. Mike flynn was there for 24 days in office. Hes presumably going to have something because the Special Prosecutor isnt going to get him off a single charge like this given how much other evidence he seems to have accumulated unless hes getting something of value. The something of value would have to be during the campaign, the transition and during those 24 days. Matt, im going to play chris ruddy but youll understand why im doing this after. Lets watch and talk about it on the other side. At the end of the day, my view is that Robert Mueller poses an existential threat to the trump presidency. Hes gotten four major, two conviction, two plea agreements, Lightning Speed. That was one of the president s closest friends,
somebody hes known to talk to regularly. Hes of news max, news organization. Not really someone who would be predisposed to admire anything about bob mueller, but he described him as moving at Lightning Speed with four major, two convictions, two three agreements. So its undeniable that bob mueller is working with some urgency to get to the bottom of this. Yeah, and just look at what the white house is saying in response to these moves by bob mueller. Theyre saying, look. All these charges show no collusion. And, see, im totally exonerated. But thats the corner that this white house has been boxed into. Their former National Security adviser is under pleaded guilty. Their former Campaign Chairman is under indictment. Two former aides have been charged. There were not even a year into this administration. If the best argument you can make is, see, were not in
cohoots with the russians to tip the, leks, it shows how much defense theyre having to play here. Bob mueller is looming large. The white house very much wants to get through this period at the end of the year where their senior staff are being interviewed. They very much want to be able to turn this around on bob mueller and say youve enjoyed everybody at the white house. Youve done what you need to do. Tell us were not the focus. Move on to whatever you need to do next. Thats what theyre hoping for. What are the odds of that happening . Not very good. I think these white house interviews are about the Obstruction Of Justice strand of the investigation which probably would not take as long as the Collusion Strand which is going to take a lot longer because in order to make that case, he may need the testimony of paul manafort. Paul manafort may want to go to trial and that could take a year. It feels like theres a lot left to gathor the question of, did senior members of the Trump Campaign knowingly collude with the russian effort. I dont think thats going to wrap up any time soon. The tweets will go on and on and on. Kristen welker, ken dilanian, matt and peter baker, thank you. The law order president rips the fbi. The assault on the Top Law Enforcement Agency and part of a disturbing pattern of seeking to destroy the credibility of anyone or any institution that doesnt bend to his will. And all in for roy moore. Donald trump finally leading, but on behalf of a man accused of Sexual Misconduct by more than nine women, including one who was 14 years old. Well show you who is following the president s lead just eight days out from election day. Stay with us. Your joints. Or your digestion. So why wouldnt you take something for the most important part of you. Your brain. With an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain health supplement
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