Me, its case closed on the question of russian meddling. And offering the bob mueller effectively ended the debate about whether russia did indeed meddle in our democracy. Suggesting it will become awkward at best for the president to continue to call the investigation a hoax. Now that a grand jury was convinced by bob mueller and his investigators who presented this evidence to them, and to which they responded with todays indictments. Deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein took to the d. O. J. Podium and announced the charges. The defendants allegedly conducted what they called Information Warfare against the United States, with the stated goal of spreading distrust towards the candidates and the political system in general. They used stolen or fictitious american identities, Fraudulent Bank accounts, and false identification documents. The defendants posed as political and socially active americans advocating for particular candidates. They established social media pages and groups to communicate with unwitting americans. Were Campaign Officials cooperative or were they duped . Whats their relationship with this . There is no allegation in this indictment that any american had any knowledge, and the nature of the scheme was the defendants took extraordinary steps to make it appear that they were ordinary american political activists, even going so far as to base their activities on a Virtual Private Network here in the United States. If anybody traced it back to the first jump, they appeared to be americans. The charging documents going even one step farther, saying the russians communicated with unwitting Trump Campaign associates in their meddling efforts. President trump responded with a tweet just in the last hour writing, quote, russia started their antiu. S. Campaign in 2014, long before i announced that i would run for president. The results of the election were not impacted. The Trump Campaign did nothing wrong. No collusion. The president ignoring shouted questions from reporters moments ago as he departed for florida. Mr. President , will you punish russia . Will you punish russia . Will you put sanctions on russia . Nothing on russia, mr. President . Join us for tea . Former cia director john brennan sounded the alarm a year ago wittingly or unwittingly trump Campaign Officials may have colluded with russia in the elections. Former cia director john brennan has respond ed to the news, tweeting d. O. J. Statement and indictments reveal the extent and motivations of russian interference in the 2016 election. Claims of a hoax in tatters. My take, implausible they did not influence the views and votes of at least some americans. Former cia director john brennan joins us now by phone. Let me start with your take on todays indictments, the significance and what you think they portend for the nur future. First of all, our hearts are still grieving over the parkland shootings. Im hoping there are going to be actions taken [ inaudible ]. I think the indictments do several things. One is that they really do validate the findings of the Intelligence Community in terms of russian interference as well as the motivations for it. Secondly, it shows that bob mueller and the Investigative Team have really done a great job as far as uncovering the extent and depth of russian engagement involvement. And also the relatively sophisticated manner russia carried out these tactics. Third, i think it just is indicative that this investigation is ongoing. Its making progress, and todays indictments i dont think are going to be the last word by any stretch. So, i am expecting that there are going to be more things coming out in the weeks ahead. Director, i want to ask you, because when we replay as we often do your testimony, it was always so careful when you spoke to the question of what you knew while the president ial campaign was in its full throated heat in the summer of 2016, the fall of 2016. There has been extensive reporting now about how the Obama Administration grappled with what you knew to be true about russian meddling. Based on just the body of information that you all knew as an Intelligence Community, how significant is it that this is becoming public now . And how much more should the public expect to learn . Well, i think it just demonstrates that the work that was done by the Intelligence Community as well as by the fbi during this campaign really was able to identify russian activities, and that this puts a lie to putins claims that russia didnt interfere at all. The extent of the activity, the number of russians who were invited, the types of activities that they engaged in with u. S. Officials or u. S. Persons who, as Rod Rosenstein said, unwitting affiliation. I think this is, again, an indication of just how determined the russians were to undermine the integrity of the election, harm Hillary Clinton, and to enhance the prospects for Donald Trumps election. Is unwittingly a term of art, to allow investigators to get as close as they can to the Trump Campaign, especially the three former Campaign Officials who have now pleaded guilty . Could they help bob mueller get to the bottom of whether the Trump Campaign wittingly or unwittingly cooperated with the 13 individuals who were indicted today . Well, yes. Russians will cultivate relationships with individuals. They dont reveal russian intelligence connections. A lot of these individuals played along with. I think as the fbi team does the interviews of people, i think some lights were going off in peoples minds about exactly what they were involved in. I do think that, you know, while some may have been unwitting, i do think the investigation is going to reveal that some individuals were knowledgeable about what they were doing and they basically strayed from what they should have been doing. This is a typical tactic of Russian Intelligence Services to try to get close to individuals, try to influence, and to use various ways [ inaudible ] as a way to befriend individuals and get individuals to do things that they wouldnt otherwise do. Director, i just want to underscore what you just said and make sure i understood it clearly. You believe that while todays news is that the 13 indicted russian nationals may have cooperated with, i believe the indictments named three Campaign Officials who were aware who they interacted with unwittingly, you believe that at the end of bob muellers investigation, it will be revealed that there were Trump Campaign associates with knowledge of their actions . Oh, i dont know that, but i just know Rod Rosenstein today is very careful and very decisive in words that he used in terms of the indictment of the individuals and this indictment of the individuals who may have been cooperating with the russians were unaware of it. That doesnt mean that theres not going to be further indictments. It doesnt mean that theres not going to be further revelations about individuals who might have been interacting with russians. And so we will see whether or not individuals inside the campaign or outside the campaign were aware of what they were doing, but yet continue to do that. Director brennan, we are so grateful to have your insights on a day like today. Thank you so much for spending some time with us. Thanks so much, nicolle. Lets return to reporters and guests with us from the white house, nbcs kristen welker, also joining Us Associated press White House Reporter ken thomas, nbcs ken dilanian is also with us. From the daily beast, Betsy Woodruff, also an msnbc contributor. Chuck rosenberg, former u. S. Attorney, former senior official at the fbi who worked on the stamp staff of both Robert Mueller and james comey and now an msnbc contributor and matt miller, msnbc legal analyst and former chief spokesman at the justice department. An embarrassment, kristen welker, i have to start with you. I watched the president give a signature move there, the thumbs up. I heard your shouted questions and i wonder if anyone was surprised that today wasnt the day that he walked up and offered any comments. Well, we thought we had a shot today, nicolle. Theres no doubt about that. In part because of the statement that you saw coming out of the white house and that tweet that he sent out. They are now making the case that this is proof that there was no collusion. Of course, the investigation is ongoing. But we thought perhaps he would Say Something on camera. Its worth noting, nicolle, this white house hasnt answered our questions since tuesday. Thats the last time we had a briefing here. And so we are very anxious to be able to talk not only to the president , but to some of his top officials here to get their broader response to what we learned today. Now, in terms of the reaction that were getting from his legal team, john dowd, the president s outside attorney saying that the president was happy with how this was handled. He thinks, quoteunquote, the reference to bob mueller. He was briefed earlier today by the Deputy Attorney general Rod Rosenstein. One white house official told me that is an indication that they see him as a part of the process and not a part of the problem. Those are talking points that were getting from the white house. What we didnt see in that tweet, in that statement, that the administration put out was an acknowledgment of the fact that russia, in fact, did meddle in the u. S. Election. And an acknowledgment there need to be next steps. What will this white house do to prevent it from happening again, particularly with the midterms looming. Will they, in fact, enact sanctions, something that has been passed in congress and a lot of republicans could like to see this president enact those sanctions quickly. And so theres going to be a lot of pressure on next steps. This is obviously something that has roiled this white house. It has gotten closer and closer to the oval office. We know that the president s former top aide steve bannon met with bob mueller for some 20 hours in recent days. And, of course, we know that the president and his legal team are trying to determine what, if any type of interview, he will grant to Robert Mueller. So, all of those issues are looming large as this Administration Still processes this very significant news, these 13 indictments in the russia probe. Thank you, kristen. Chuck, i want to get to you. Theres nothing normal about the white house response. And even for a white house that doesnt do very many normal things, the normal thing to do when a foreign adversary is indicted for committing crimes, particularly crimes that were aimed at distorting or affecting your democracy, is to do what president obama did. I think in his final weeks of his administration, he announced sanctions. He shuttered two russian homes or places that they used for their activities. How jarring is it inside Law Enforcement and inside the Intelligence Community or maybe not at all when it comes to donald trump, to have the indictments that you had today and to have the response from the president be all about the president . Well, ive come to expect some of that, nicolle, but yes, its incredibly jarring. Now, there may be things that our government is doing that we dont know about to sort of get back at the russian Information Warfare detailed in this indictment. But to your point, there are sections in this indictment and i think everyone should read it about the ways, manners, means of the conspiracy. There is a section about the objects of the conspiracy. Guess what section doesnt appear . The vindication section. There is nothing in this indictment that vindicates anybody. Indictments dont vindicate people. Indictments charge people with crimes. In this case, russian officials and russian organizations. So, the notion that you would read this thing and claim vindication strikes me as silly, crazy. Let me ask you a followup question on that. We know from reporting that donald trump doesnt get briefed in person about russia, that its all delivered in writing because it agitates him. Makes him angry. We know from subsequent reporting that he doesnt read his pdb. Do you think there was and this is a serious question. For a president that is not if you accept those accounts and the white house did not comment on either of those articles, do you think it was a shock to him to learn today that 13 russian nationals were deep inside our democracy, acting as american actors, smearing Hillary Clinton, sending people to her rallies, sowing discord. Do you think this was a shock to him, someone had to walk in and take him through all of the different times that the u. S. Intelligence community and u. S. Law enforcement has tried to state just this . Gosh, nicolle. If this was a shock to him, that would be shocking. You would hope, you would expect that folks have been telling him this type of thing in one way or another, whether orally or in writing since he became the president of the United States. I cant go into detail and i know you cant either about the things that are in a pdb, but this is precisely the type of operation being run by a adversary, that the president should be keenly informed about. Exactly. Ken dilanian, i want you to jump in as part of the conversation. I know youve studied the indictment as closely as chuck has. And i want you to we have some time now. Lets hone in on what some of the most godsmacking elements of it. To me its the next that there were not one, not two, but three trump Campaign Officials who were in some sort of contact with the 13 indicted russian nationals. Yeah, thats certainly one of them, nicolle. I was struck by the elements of the operation we didnt know about. We knew about the social media manipulation. But we didnt realize, i dont think, that russian agents were actually infiltrating the United States, using false identities, talking to americans, gathering u. S. Intelligence on the political system in furtherance of this covert operation. We didnt realize they were setting up rallies both in person and on social media, both pro trump rallies and sort of dirty tricks kind of rallies, like muslims for hillary, and pro jill stein rallies. All in an effort to interfere in our democracy. We didnt know there was a budget of more than a Million Dollars a month in this covert operation. So, look, one of my colleagues is circulating a tweet that donald trump tweeted back in july where he talked about negotiating with Vladimir Putin, a Cyber Security defense tact to protect elections from hacking. You know, people forget that. That was immediately repudiated by the white house. But this indictment is an absolu absolu absolute refutation of his world view. This was a hoax, Vladimir Putin insisted he didnt meddle and he was prepared to accept that. The idea that he would claim vindication from this is absurd on its face. And then the point that you raised, which is that we have a president of the United States who is silent in the face of clear evidence of an attack by an american adversary on our political system. They took advantage of our first amendment, of our social media, of our open system to manipulate americans and the question now is what is the u. S. Government going to do about it, nicolle. Ken thomas, do you have any indication from white house sources who sometimes on background are able to share details about a process that, in many instances, is h. R. Mcmaster, trying to bring him around . I know sometimes the cia director pompeo has to bring him around. Sometimes those officials go out and make Public Comments so the president doesnt have to. Do you have any indication from the white house has been at best hunkered down, at worst slamming doors in the faces of the reporters covering them since tuesday . Do you have any sense there is a group that has stayed behind in washington in that building behind you to figure out how to respond to the 13 indictments . Theres not a large party traveling with the president that were aware of. A lot of his Main Advisors are staying back here in washington. Were also told that the president could receive and have a lot of meetings in florida this weekend. Theres obviously the sensitivity about the shooting nearby in parkland. So, the expectation is that, you know, the white house is trying to digest this. The initial read from them is that this is good news, that it shows that this started back in 2014, well before he was a candidate and, you know, offers them a way to claim that it didnt affect the outcome of the election. On the other hand, you do have Rod Rosenstein who the president has been critical of, making a case in the public. So, it makes it much more difficult for now the president to turn around and fire rosenstein if thats something hes been considering. Matt miller, it also makes it more bizarre if they view this as good news, if they truly feel happy, if they truly feel vindicated that today bob muellers special counsel investigation, that that team took evidence to a grand jury and those americans, just like all of us,