Missing the forest for the trees. As crystallized in the atlantic, quote, the myriad trump scandals obscure the fact that theyre all elements of one massive tell of corruption, the corruption of the American Government by the president and his associates who are using their official power for personal and financial gain. And their attempts to shield that corruption from political consequence, public scrutiny, or legal accountability. Here are some of the countrys Top National Security officials from past democratic and republican administrations on the topic. I think what were seeing here is the president has just taken his allout assault on the rule of law to a new level. I am really concerned that the depth of the partisan ranker and animus in washington is like ive never seen before. The thing i am most concerned about, though, is this obliteration of norms. Is this erosion of norms and many democratic principles that weve seen. I think thats actually very disturbing assault on the independence of the department of justice. And i think when the president this president or any president tries to use the department of justice as kind of a private investigatory body, thats not good for the country. I think thats not just norm busting. That actually may be in violation of the statute that requires us to keep congress, not one party in congress, fully and currently informed. There is a part of me that, you know, i have been very angry at donald trump for the things he said and things he did. I am now moving into the realm of deep worry and concern that our country needs strong leadership now. Joining our panel today jim mussina, former White House Deputy chief of staff. He also ran president obamas reelection campaign. Jeremy peters, the New York Times political reporter. Elise jordan, former aide in the george w. Bush white house and state department and rick steng l former under secretary of state former diplomacy and former managing editor for time magazine. Let me start with you and ask you, having worked actually all three of us having worked at the highest levels of a west wing to see the kinds of people that used to be really granted a lot of deference when they walked into the west wing for a meeting with the president sounds alarms. To see people like michael hayden, people who had famously low profiles in government, now cant sound the alarms loudly enough about what theyre seeing from this president. I remember going home from the west wing and thinking to myself, i sleep better because of people like lisa monaco, john brennan, every single day protecting the country, didnt matter whether it was george bush, barack obama, these people were patriots trying to do a good job. You look at the incredible attacks on all the branches, judiciary, intelligence services, if barack obama had done any of that, barack obama criticized the fbi once. Fox news would shutdown for the riots that would have occurred at their studios, right . And donald trump is doing every single day and where are the patriots, people standing up and saying, no . Well, we showed some of them, elise. It is a good point. If the shoe were on the other foot, there would certainly be i dont know if there would be riots, but there would certainly be condemnation, if any other politician tried to weapon ize the justice department, to attack or attack their own enemies. I guess what this administration has impressed upon me is how over reliant we were we are on norms. And the respecting of norms that arent necessarily enshrined in law, but every administration endeavors to uphold the standards that have allegation been followed, you know, not having a hotel named after you in the city, in the capital of the nation, that you encourage foreign leaders to host events and their diplomats at. Little things like that. Not using the oval office to promote your daughters fashion line, things that we really or your senior advisors. Your senior advisors, exactly. Things that are definitely questionable, but maybe they might not actually be illegal, but still it is incredibly unseemly and corrupt. On the world stage, certainly george w. Bush brought a lot of criticism for his war in iraq in particular, other counterterrorism policies. President obama less so, but still plenty of criticism of some of his foreign policy. But those were policy disputes. Yeah. There was an understanding among our allies of who we were as a country, that we respected the rule of law, that we adhered to these traditions and norms. With this president who is i think both ignorant of them and disdainful of them, whats the world make of america right now . So, one of the ideas of american exceptionalism was this idea that we were different in the sense that people went into government not to pad their own checkbook, but for disinterested reasons of patriotism and service. And what this what his erosion of norms has done is hes turned the American Government into like a third world government where people go into government to enrich themselves, to enrich their families, and thats how trump sees it. Trump has no understanding of the norms of the rule of law. He sees this as another business, like a kind of crime family that they see in other places around the world, and this has eroded this idea that america is different. We used to go around and say, like, you need to work on your human rights. You need to, you know, you need to do rule of law. And now we have no credibility to say that any more. I want to play for you you have your ear to the ground on whats happening on the right at the grassroots level. I want to play for you something jeff flake said and see if you think he speaks for anyone in the republican grassroots. Our presidency has been debased by a figure who seemingly has a bottomless appetite for destruction and division, and only a passing familiarity with how the constitution works. And our article 1 branch of government, the kocongress, thas me, is utterly supine in the face of the moral vandalism that flows from the white house daily. This disease of our pallity is far too serious not to be recognized for what it is. The damage it threatens to do to our vital organs is far too great for us to carry on as if all is well. All is not well. Well, simply put, we may have hit bottom. So, i wept when i saw that. He spoke to my battered political soul. But there are few enough people like me that donald trump won anyway. That is exactly right and there are almost no people in congress who will speak up to the extent that jeff flake has. I might also point out that hes retiring and he was giving that speech at harvard, not in his home state of arizona where donald trump remains quite popular. So, i think that when you go out into the country and talk to people about what has trump done, the people who support him and by the way, his numbers are rising. We shouldnt lose sight of that. They dont care about russia. They dont care about the tweeting. They dont care about his denigratetion of his political enemies. They think its a big deem al w make such a big deal of it. They see all the noise around trump to be almost an insult to them personally. Like an attack on them. How stupid can you be to support that guy . And thats a really powerful motivator going into the 2018 midterms. Its also something the republicans plan on using to their benefit by reminding voters that, look, these democrats and these never trumpers, they think youre stupid. They hate you. So you have to turnout and make sure that they dont effectively nullify your vote, your victory in putting donald trump in the white house. At some point, this election of 18 is going to be about base turnout. Right now democrats have what, elise, 10 point, 12 point on enthusiasm which is a very big deal. If youre going to rally your base, there is Nothing Better to rally your base to your point than whacking away at washington. Places where i live in montana, that message works, saying, look, you might like those people or not like them. But washington has been screwing you for a very long time. My friends in my ranching community who are republican say i dont care about any of that. I just want trump to stick it to all those guys. They like how do democrats run against that . How do you defend norms . There are plenty of people in these agencies director hayden are defending who are not part of a deep state liberal conspiracy. Theyre speaking up for plenty of republicans in the country. Fbi agents in montana, in arizona. Where is the disconnect . There is a stupid debate going on if my party that makes me want to scream. You talk about corruption or talk about other issues. We as democrats have to walk and chew come at the same time. You have to point out corruption and how the system is not working, trump is using the system to make him and his friends more wealthy. Democrats have to have a message to speaks to people in montana and how your life is going to be better if we get in power. And if we dont, people will turn back to fear, which they did in the trump election. And the republicans will hold onto the house and the senate. Sitting here four months out, i still am very nervous about my partys message to those voters in some of these states that doesnt look condescending, but instead say this is how your life will be better. Elise, i want to ask you about something that general hayden wrote about. He writes, a few months after mr. Trumps inauguration i got a call from a colleague who thought he might be on a very short list for a very senior position in the Trump Administration. He asked my opinion. I told him that three months earlier i would have talked to him about his duty to serve. Now i was telling him to say no. Youre a young man, i said. Dont put yourself at risk for the future. You have a lot to offer. Some day. I got a lot of calls like that from people who were asked to come in and interview for Communications Jobs as im sure you did during the president ial transition. I told all of them to run, not walk away from the trump white house, because donald trump became president without anyone with a title of communications director. I didnt think it would be a post that he would value in the white house. George w. Bush believed that without karen hughes by his side, he would not have prevailed in his president ial campaign. So, the karen hughes job was always in the room, and karen hughes had it, dan bart let had it, i had that job. We were always in the room. So, what about this idea that this white house cannot recruit the very best people, which was central to the trump brand . Well, and i am in a similar position. Friends in National Security and debating the pros and cons. I was very pro that we needed talented National Security professionals who were a political to go into the administration. Today i am not as sure simply because within the National Security realm, they have been overreliant thinking the process would save the policy. And as we see, you know, last week with north korea, it doesnt matter what the agreed upon policy is. Donald trump can decide that hes single handedly going to up end it. So, i dont think that the administration is able to attract talent just because its become such an albatross, serving in the administration, outside of National Security, in coms role, you look at how former staffers arent able to get jobs. They dont have the hiring prospects that in previous administrations you would have. Imagine what it does to morale. Ive heard people say this inside the west wing. When the president is going out and tormenting his attorney general on twitter on a daily basis and humiliating Homeland Security secretary. Or secretary of state imagine what that does to the person who works a few levels down. This is why trump has failed to engender a lot of loyalty, except for really a handful of people around him. Its kind of a death spiral in the sense of the best people are hanging around outside. The worst people go in. The best lack all conviction, the worst are full of passion and intensity. That is the nature of the Trump Administration. Well, wait, i love that. The worst are full of intensity. William butler bates. I love that. Look at you, elevating us. Whats the consequence for the country . Thats what concerns me. Once upon a time when, you know, good people went in on both sides. Were different political parties, you care about the country, i care about the country, we have a different vision. Now its a spiral downward in that you have people who have no conviction, have no ability, trump sees it as a family business. He doesnt understand institutions. He doesnt understand government. He doesnt understand the scale of it. He doesnt understand the fact there are hundreds of thousands of people in washington who care about the country. Theyre doing it because they care about the values that america stands for. He doesnt know how to operate in that environment. And in the beginning i, too, wanted great people to go in there to kind of protect us. But now you know, i wouldnt advise them to do it. As an american i worry you dont have highquality people in there trying to figure it out. In some ways it doesnt really matter because hes not using those institutions anyway. State department is not involved in these negotiations. Hes largely set the cabinet aside. And if you look, except for Jared Kushner who has by associating themselves with donald trump, who has improved their career standing. Did you tell anyone to take a job in that white house or the add sngs no. No, its a sad state of affairs. When we come back, good news. Women, theyre stipulating into the political arena in record numbers. Maybe theyll save us. Will they turn the tide for democrats in november . Cecile richards joins the conversation. Also ahead, pulling back the curtain on Donald Trumps nemesis. The not so failing the New York Times. Inside a brandnew showtime documentary. The first survivor of alzheimers disease is out there. And the Alzheimers Association is going to make it happen. But we wont get there without you. Visit alz. Org to join the fight. If yor crohns symptoms are holding you back, and your Current Treatment hasnt worked well enough, it may be time for a change. Ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohns. Entyvio works at the site of inflammation in the gi tract and is clinically proven to help many patients achieve both symptom relief and remission. Infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. Entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. Pml, a rare, serious, potentially fatal brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. This condition has not been reported with entyvio. 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Its a phenomenon that womens rights activists and former planned parenthood president discusses in her new memoir, make trouble. Standing up, speaking out and finding the courage to lead in which she writes, quote, now more than ever women are the most important Political Force in america. We have enormous power to change the direction of this country and its time to use it. Marching, knitting and protesting are great, but voting and changing who is elected to office is essential. Joining us at the table, Cecile Richards, the former president of planned parenthood, federation of america, my friend. Weve had conversations over the years about all of these issues. And its such a great read. But it really is a call to do more. I mean, you dont accept the stirring images of women filling the street in larger crowds, not that we are as obsessed with size as men, but our crowds were larger than the president s. Thats not enough. Your point is go further. Right. I think thats what were seeing, as you said. Women are not only running for office in historic numbers not only for congress, but also in governors races. We saw Stacey Abrams and that historic race. Women are actually fueling i think all of the opposition to the policies that are happening right now. We saw last year in defeating the repeal of obamacare, in defeating the effort by the white house to end access to planned parenthood, it was women that were really behind that and, of course, it was two republican women, Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski who were really decisive votes and leaders in that fight. So, if you look back at some of the big standoffs in congress over the last five years, the government shutdowns during president obamas presidency, it was always women who kept the lines of communication open. Agree. Women fall short when it comes time to market those skills as political assets. It seems on the republican side, the loudest, most extreme, the members of the house caucus who are the most adversarial to the department of justice, to all of the norms that we see under attack every day, seem to be the ones that get the most air time. How do women grab back some of that oxygen for being diplomats, for being civilized, for solving problems . I think you hit on it right there, nicolle, what people in this country want is she want solutions, not problems. I think thats the frustration with politics. And women in particular are good at crossing the aisle. Again, i think senator murkowski and senator collins are a good example of that. One of the problems is women are simply outnumbered in congress as you know, we have records of women running. We have 20 women senators, senator claire mccaskill, what would