The latest Political Developments of the day and interviews with top newsmakers are featured. Now, the defense was deep into its opening statement. The prosecution had finished their opening statement. Look, this is a dry case about tax evasion and bank fraud. But hanging over it is this enormous pressure that you can almost feel on Paul Manafort. He must be spending millions on this case. He has a team of Defense Lawyers. Hes wearing a suit to court, but hes going sleep in jail in a green jump suit. Hes facing 10 years in this case, another 15 in d. C. The government said that they had two dozen witnesses, and 100 documents, and theyre they essentially portrayed a story of greed and lies. They say that Paul Manafort reaped some 60 million for his work for this ukrainian oligarch, had it paid to avoid 15 million in taxes. And when the spigot turned off in 2015, he started milking
banks, continuing to commit tax fraud. What was interesting to me, what was the defense going to say . Because it doesnt seem like they have much to say. But the defense is hanging its hat on trying to impugn rick gates, manaforts right hand man and turned states evidence and will testify against him. They are portraying him as someone testifying to save his own skin. There was a massive indictment filed against manafort and gates before gates flipped. So the government is say thing case doesnt rest on any one particular witness. Manaforts Defense Lawyer tried to argue if there was tax evasion, it wasnt willful. He didnt mean to file a false tax return. Chuck, im old enough to remember when a political scandal was something that included tax fraud, bank fraud, and immense dpreegreed. But i guess times have changed. Can you take us through your analysis whether Robert Muellers investigators and prosecutors are ultimately able to convict Paul Manafort will still be able to compel testimony from him . I think thats right. Look, its easier, nicolle, when somebody pleads guilty and cooperates as rick gates did. But even if mr. Manafort is convicted at trial, and i expect he will be, by the way, it is, as ken said, a very, very strong case. If hes convicted at trial, they can compel him to testify against others. They can immunize him, strip away his Fifth Amendment privilege, and even do it after an acquittal. So the government has a number of paths open to it, to compel manafort to testify if he doesnt change his mind and made guilty and cooperate. At this point, with Opening Statements being delivered in alexandria, hes going the long route and will not cooperate. The convention when the republican platform was changed. Theres a reason paul is in the position he is today and corey is not. Its not because paul is amateur hour. Ive heard that other people ask, is the family on the outs with paul . Total nonsense. We couldnt be more happy with the work hes doing, the way hes handling the organization of everything going forward. Hes done a phenomenal job. I wish we had him on earlier. I wish we had him on earlier, and Robert Muellers interest in the relationship between donald trump and Paul Manafort, these are some of the questions that were published earlier this year. Robert mueller wants to know what knowledge the president had of any outreach by his Campaign Including by Paul Manafort to russia. I think you cant overstate the importance that Paul Manafort had in securing the republican nomination with donald trump. Youve got to remember that its a time when Paul Manafort entered the campaign, donald trump had just lost in
wisconsin, and his operation had no organizational apparatus where they were going to secure the delegates that were needed so that he would actually get the nomination and not have a contested convention. And Paul Manafort did quite a good job of quelling the uprising, too. At the time, ted cruz was still alive. I want to just bring this back to this big russia question. Again, its not a coincidence that Paul Manafort was on the dole for the russians. Heres jamie bash on our program at the time he said this, it blew my mind, but it seems more possible that jeremy was on to something. Its possible that russia actually dispatched Paul Manafort to the trump campaign, or at least Paul Manafort attached himself to the campaign, the russians said our agent is now on the inside. And they tried to manipulate the campaign not just through propaganda but through agents of
influence. So when he said that, i was watching homeland and i thought it was like an episode. But what do you make of the possibility . It certain hi seems possible. At this point, it would be hard to rule anything out. Manaforts links to russia are so deep and there are lots of dark shadows in that story. Remember, he worked for free for donald trump. Nothing is for free. Nothing is for free, and we know theres been reports that he owed quite a bit of money to people overseas. And certainly as pointed out in the beginning of the block, russia is not on trial here, but russia is shrouded throw this whole thing. Theres been a study the last few days, starting with Rudy Giuliani, talking about collusion is not a crime. But that has been the argument throughout. Theres no collusion, no collusion. And the crime is conspiracy. But thats not the argument
what is the value to the larger Mueller Probe of trying Paul Manafort right now . There may be a lot of value down the road if they convict him and he is compelled to cooperate or volunteers in some way. But theres another important thing to remember, nicolle. In the course of their investigation of russia interference, the mueller team came across a guy, mr. Manafort, who broke lots of laws and lots of different places. So really they have a binary choice. They can walk away from it, which makes no sense, or they can charge it, which they did. So even if there is ultimately no spillover effect, this is what prosecutors and agents do. They find a crime and they charge it. Frankly, they convict on it. I also wanted to say one thing about collusion. Collusion is a crime. Collusion is a crime because its the crime of conspiracy. Its a synonym. If this comes down to synonyms, that just strikes me as
astonishing. The words bank heist dont appear in the Criminal Code either, but bank robbery does. The House Of Cards seems to be getting wobblier and wobblier, and i dont know if wobblier is a word. Well look that up for you. Bring us back to mr. Gates. You mentioned at the top of the show that they were going to blame mr. Gates. Hes a cooperating witness, until Robert Mueller says he isnt. And he was around this white house, he was around this west wing, in and out of the white house for meetings after Paul Manafort was gone. Talk about his role in the drama starting to unfold there. Well, what the defense is saying while Paul Manafort was off in ukraine doing his important work, gates was back home managing the finances. Thats going to be the defense story. Theyre going to put a lot of the blame on gates. I dont think that theres anything in the evidence that suggests thats going to work. But it will be interesting to
him, that George Papadopoulos was i mean, these are not coincidences. They paint a clear picture of conspiracy. The National Security adviser pled guilty to lying not just about anything, but talking about nobody forgot meetings with the spanish leaders or the leaders of mexico or canada. They all forgot about contacts with russia. Its incredible that the white houses message about this Paul Manafort trial, Paul Manafort may be an international criminal, but when he worked for us, he wasnt committing these crimes. Doesnt say a lot about their judgment. But we dont know that he wasnt committing these collusion crimes. Whether he came to the campaign as an insert from the Russian Intelligence Services or whether he got there and had a debt to a Russian Oligarch, he was reaching back out to that Russian Oligarch during the campaign, offering briefings, selling access to the campaign. And he was reaching out through
a known russian intelligence asset. Who was wandering around the Rnc Convention in cleveland. This comes back to the ludicrous and the obvious. The news today is this trial is under way, but the picture is what it always is with donald trump, in bed with many, many different russians. They have a Foreign Exchange program where ambassadors come to different conventions. [ Overlapping Speakers ] but they dont lead to platform changes in the rnc Platform Committee meeting. Its very odd coincidences abound when it comes to the russians. Thank you for starting us off. When we come back, Rudy Giuliani puts collusion in the
same category as obstruction, saying he would not submit his client to answer questions to Robert Mueller on either topic. What that says about his clients innocence or lack thereof. And Donald TrumpsSecretary Of State tries to clean up the boss offer to meet with the leader of iran without preconditions. And news that the north koreans may have duped donald trump. And how basketballs brightest star is making a fool out of laura ingram. Stay with us. Diabetes are excited about the potential of onceweekly ozempic®. In a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than seven and maintained it. Oh under seven . vo and you may lose weight. In the same oneyear study, adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. Oh up to 12 pounds . vo a twoyear study showed that ozempic® does not increase the risk of major cardiovascular events like heart attack, stroke, or death. Oh no increased risk . Ozempic® ozempic® should not be the first medicine for treating diabetes, or for people with Type 1 Diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. Do not share needles or pens. Dont reuse needles. Do not take ozempic® if you have a personal or Family History of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple Endocrine Neoplasia Syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to ozempic®. Stop taking ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, itching, rash, or trouble breathing. Serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis. Tell your doctor if you have Diabetic Retinopathy or vision changes. Taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase the risk for low blood sugar. Common side effects are nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach pain, and constipation. Some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. I discovered the potential with ozempic®. Oh oh oh ozempic® vo ask your Healthcare Provider if ozempic® is right for you. There was no collusion between me and my campaign and the russians. No collusion. No collusion. There was no collusion at all. No collusion, which i knew any way. No coordination, no nothing. Its a witch hunt. He knows a synonym too when he sees one. Trump today following his lawyer, Rudy Giulianis new defense, not so much no collusion, but as he tweeted this morning, collusion is not a crime. But he adds, that doesnt matter because there was no collusion except by Crooked Hillary and the democrats. I want to ask you, how successful this white house has a good success rate at reprogramming the mantras to his base. But are you picking up skepticism about this abrupt and public about face when it comes to the question of collusion . I think theres been a little bit of skepticism in the republican ranks i think piers morgan, its not really the piers morgan test here, but hes been a strong supporter of the president and he raised a few concerns about the statement in the past couple of days. But look, i think what youre seeing from the white house is a sense that things are getting a little tighter. You have the manafort trial. You have Michael Cohen sort of seeming like hes talking. You have these russian indictments. So things are creepy. And you have this looming deadline of labor day. Traditionally, the Justice Department does not take action close to an election, and there is a sense that mueller is a traditionalist and will be on this, and something is going to happen. There are a lot of people here in washington who think its going to happen before labor day. That deadline is getting close. I think you get a sense that the pressure is mounting on the white house right now. Do you have a sense, matt miller, that bob mueller feels hemmed in by tradition by the
way things are usually done . Im told by senior Justice Department officials that what the many bodies there are doing is investigating to prosecute crimes. But it seems like a known unknown at this point whether or not they have ruled as to whether or not they can or cant indict the president , whether or not yeah, thats right. You know, they dont talk about any of this. Its not just with bob mueller. On these big questions, these are questions that would come to rod rosenstein. He would have the power, if he wanted, to overrule the department of justice opinion that a sitting president cannot be indicted. But bob mueller has spent a good part of his career at the Justice Department, rosenstein the same way. I suspect that both with respect
to the question of indictment and this question that lisa brought up about the 60day unwritten rule that you dont do anything about the election, i think he will respect it. I think especially of what jim comeys experience of stepping in right after i think theyll go dark. Rudy giuliani, he ru he rud out questions about obstruction, because even the president s closest friends, yeah,ky see that. But hes now ruled out questions about collusion. So im not sure what theyre going to talk about. You said maybe you would let him answer a few questions on collusion. Given some of the revelations of the last three or four weeks, we have gone further away from answering any questions from them. We dont think they have a legitimate investigation. So thats Rudy Giuliani for the smear mueller investigation, not speaking as to whether or not his client can answer questions about collusion. The president thinks hes his best advocate and can clear his name. He can walk into that room, charm investigators, walk out. No one else thinks thats a good idea. But he is someone who would purger himself three times in seconds. Giuliani has done some things well. With the mueller camp silent, Rudy Giuliani has done a good job establishing some public goal posts to this investigation. And in the media coverage, we have seen that muellers poll numbers have dropped since Rudy Giuliani came on. And he reupped his harshest attacks on sunday. Putting other things in the fog machine that Rudy Giuliani likes to dominate. But do you think theyll be able to put to bed this tease and dance about an interview . At some point, they would have to. It seems like every day rudy is ruling out things he can be asked about. What theyre using is the interview as a way to undermine the credibility itself. Hes not going to sit down for an interview because this is not a legitimate investigation. And i think theyre using the interview to take another whack and whack at mueller to try to undermine whatever it is he might find. 98 days out from the midte
midterms. Are you picking up angst that republicans would like a clearer shot other than whether or not collusion is a crime, whether or not donald trump will do an interview with bob mueller who may or may not be in Donald Trumps view, part of the witch hunt . I think what makes republicans nervous is what they dont know. There is a question some republicans will argue that these things have a short shelf life. That something that would have dominated the conversation on the Campaign Trial for three weeks, now lasts a week or a couple of days before the next explosive thing comes out. And with everything that is explosive, then maybe nothing is explosive. But one thing we know is clear is that this constant stream of revelations provides a consistent shot of adrenaline to democrats. So thats part of why youre seeing the sustained enthusiasm on the democratic side. You had protesters who had been transformed into volunteers,
transformed theoretically into voters. Every week their decision to be engaged is getting reinforced by this continual news cycle about this investigation. So thats certainly not making republicans happy, given that midterms tend to be base elections. You look at the other political calls that donald trump has made in days of late. Hes threatening a government shutdown. Hes threatening to build the wall. Hes much more concerned with go