Here at the table for the hour, Steve Schmidt and matt miller. But first, to react for the first time, single threads different threads of a single story. Questions about russians and contact with people in the president s inner circle. Former cia director john brennan, lucky for us, now a Senior National security and Intelligence Analyst for msnbc and nbc news. I understand now, sitting here today, why donald trump a week or so ago said dont believe what you see, dont believe what you hear on the news channels, because when you take all these events just this week together, they paint a very compromising position for this president on the question of russian influence. I think thats right, nicolle. I think weve seen over the course of the last two years basically an effort on the part of President Trump and others to pry to inoculate Public Perceptions of what actually
happened during the campaign. First, there were no meetings. Then there were meetings, but they were focused on adoption. They were benign. Then they acknowledged there was meetings and some issues discussed. But now were at the point of them saying collusion is not against the law. So i think this just reflects just this steady slide of the trump team to try to acknowledge that some things happened but they werent illegal. Thats where its up to the special counsel and his team to uncover exactly what happened, the motivations for those who went into those meetings, and to come to the conclusions that i think the evidence will bring forth. Is there any question in your mind about what the motivations were for the people in the meetings . I mean, the Trump Tower Meeting was attended by natalia and others who were known to be close to the kremlin. When you first heard about that meeting, was there any doubt in
and still may be in terms of monitoring these developments. But the fbi and the u. S. Intelligence community are the worlds best in terms of being able to detect and to then uncover. Sometimes realtime, but often youre able to determine exactly what happened by putting together some bits and pieces of data until you can see more of the puzzle. I think i hear what youre saying, and unlike this president , i respect the need to protect sources. I guess what im trying to get at is one of Donald Trumps attacks on the Intelligence Community where you spent the vast majority of your career and on Law Enforcement, which is both sides of those, cia run by his hand picked appointees and before that, by a political supporter, mike pompeo. The fbi now run by his hand picked nominee, christopher wray. He attacks them constantly. Is it should he have been warned by the fbi that there
were russian agents in trump tower . Do you know if there was enough information in possession of the u. S. Government that in hindsight maybe he should have been warned . Certainly the campaign was given defensive briefings by the fbi what they should be on the lookout for. But if there were ongoing investigations at the time, which jim comey and others have acknowledged that in late july, there were those investigations were opened. Its very, very difficult to reveal details of an investigation while at the same time protecting the integrity of that investigation. So i know that the bureau tried to balance their need to warn and to advise the two campaigns about the potential for foreign interference. But at the same time, continue to pull those investigative threads and they continued to pull them throughout the course of the campaign and during the period between election and
functions of the american Intelligence Community and Law Enforcement. I do want to get to the manafort trial. Jeremy bash on this program once said that it was possible that there was a russian plant, that there was somebody who was who sought out employment on the trump campaign. We know that Paul Manafort sought Out Tom Baric and asked to get in front of trump and Paul Manafort served as the chairman when the platform at the Republican National convention koicoincidentally perhaps, maybe its President Trumps one true intellectual impulse on foreign policy, changed to a pro russia position. What do you make of the fact that Paul Manafort, while i understand this trial is about financial crimes, is one of the first characters who could have been perhaps planted or placed there as a russian agent inside the trump campaign, is that implausible to you . The latest Political Developments of the day and interviews with top newsmakers are featured. Intelligence element. But a lot of times people recognize that there are vulnerabilities here in themselves. But still will pursue this because they have tremendous financial pressures upon them. And i think whats coming out in this case is that Paul Manafort faced very, very serious financial problems. And was seeking to capitalize on them. So i think the special counsels team has done a good job of what ive seen so far publicly in terms of uncovering some of this. And rick gates now is acknowledging his role in this. You know, when i see this continued case evolve, i keep thinking about sort of those who are affiliated with President Trump, its almost like a pack of cars going down the highway being pursued by Law Enforcement. And some of those cars have been pulled over and are now cooperating with the authorities. The mike flynns and george
papadopoulpap dap papadopoulos and rick gates. And the other cars are going to be outmaneuvered by Law Enforcement or go off a cliff. Theyre not going to get away. Let me ask you about a white bronco here. Don junior largely thought to be thrown under the bus by his own father. They seem to have a strategy for avoiding maybe not even impeachment but conviction. But he appeared to throw his son under the bus when he said don junior took a meeting with the russians, it happens all the time. You never meet with a foreign government, let alone a foreign adversary. There are plenty of allies who have information. You never take the meeting. You dont meet with the uk or the israelis. You never, ever, ever correspond with american adversaries. So what do you think trumps doing by saying hey, don junior met with russians to get dirt on Hillary Clinton . Do you think its sort of trying to signal the same defense he has for himself, collusion isnt a crime, or doesnt he understand that his son could be in serious legal jeopardy for conspiracy . I think both. He believes he can convince his base and supporters that there was no crime here and trying to explain it away. But also i think he has an exaggerated sense of his ability to navigate these legal shoals. And i think he has done a lot of damage to his Legal Defense and his sons Legal Defense. And im sure some of the lawyers that are trying to defend President Trump and others, the real lawyers, not Rudy Giuliani, but the others are rolling their eyes and are very concerned about all of the things that President Trump continues to either tweet or to say, that its complicating and making their jobs much more difficult. Let me ask you Something Else about russians. They seem to be popping up everywhere. A russian spy that infiltrated the nra, which may seem you have
t off topic, but its about russians manipulating the republicans. Are the russians being embold emboldened or are we Getting Better at catching them . Russian intelligence spans the spectrum from very sophisticated, exquisite operations that are really difficult to detect and uncover, to maybe some of the more entrepreneurial efforts on the part of those who may be working directly or indirectly with one of the russian intelligence services, whose profile is maybe a little bit more prominent than a Traditional RussianIntelligence Officer would like. And so therefore, people like her who have come across the radar, to me it doesnt smack of very sophisticated russian intelligence trade craft. It is very aggressive and asserti assertive, and she had a profile that i think was inconsistent
with what a russian Intelligence Officer would want of his or her asset or person working on their behalf in the United States. I read red spareio. I think i know what youre saying. You talked about whiting and unwhiting accomplices. I put don junior in the unwitting category. Do the events move him over to the witting accomplices . He responded i love it. His father said he walked into a meeting with the russians, people now that we know have ties with the kremlin and sat there, wanting to receive dirt on Hillary Clinton, would you now, in terms of his sort of legal standing and the role that he has played in all this, would you move him into the witting category . I think i would put him in the witting category, in terms of knowing going into that meeting with an anticipation and expectation that he was going to get dirt from those individuals that were associated with russia. Whether he was witting of just how bad that action was, i dont know. But if he had that position within the trump campaign, he certainly should have been aware. And those working with him should have been aware that going into that meeting, in and of itself, just by definition, would be problematic. So i think it was a bit of knee yoo naivety, selfconfidence, and also believing he could get away with it and not be held to account one day. And i think he was wrong on that score. Yes, he hadnt met mr. Mueller. John brennan, thank you for your time. Thank you. Matt miller, so much there. But this idea now that were putting our finger on it, the witting accomplices to the russian effort to meddle in the 2016 election feels like maybe the public facing part of what bob mueller is investigating, the conspiracy. Thats right. If you stake everyone in that meeting at trump tower its Jared Kushner, Paul Manafort, donald trump, jr. And a bunch of russians with ties to the kremlin. Thats right. What did they think they were doing . Its not just the emails that we see Jared Kushner responding to, but you have to take that into context of what happened before. In april, George Papadopoulos had been told that the russians had obtained Hillary Clintons emails. Dan scavino, a close aide to President Trump, had tweeted about the russians having obtained Hillary Clintons emails. We havent seen this confirmed yet, but i guarantee they went into that meeting thinking they were going to get hacked, stolen emails from the russians. And we talked to a person close to the trump Legal Defense effort u who said that every person who told a lie about that meeting, told lies to other people repeatedly, and the idea that every single one of them
had the sensibility to walk in and Tell The Truth the first time to Robert Mueller is a fantasy, that every one of the people who probably knownt the meeting, because it is a small campaign, not a lot of chances that they didnt know what the meeting was about, they all told this lie to the press, to each other, to the rest of the white house, that the idea of every one of those people on the list of six names that Robert Mueller sent over, after it came out wasnt about adoption, could be in serious legal jeopardy. No doubt thats true. What weve known for a long time, was there collusion . Of course there was. When the leading officials of the president ial campaign go to a meeting with russian intelligence operatives for the purpose of receiving dirt on the Democratic Partys nominee for president , they were colluding with a hostile foreign intelligence power. What i dont know is does it meet the Legal Definition of Felony Conspiracy against the United States . And thats what were going to find out over the course of the investigation. But i know this for sure on
any of the campaigns that we worked on together and we worked on two president ial campaigns together, and i know for sure whether youre talking about the senior people who we were in opposition against on the obama campaign, on the john kerry campaign, people that we know well. Not a Single Person on any of those campaigns around barack obama or john kerry, the they were called and asked do you want to meet with russian intelligence operatives, officials, people with ties to the kremlin to get dirt on george w. Bush or john mccain, the answer would have been hell no, and they would have called the fbi. Thats what people do. When we come back, we go inside the courtroom where the Prosecutions Star Witness pulled back the curtain on Paul Manaforts criminal enterprise. Also ahead, blue wave rising. How anger at the president could get a democrat close enough to rattle republicans in a deep red part of ohio. Stay with us. But he has plans today. So he took aleve this morning. Hey dad. If hed taken tylenol, hed be stopping for more pills right now. Only aleve has the strength stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. Tylenol cant do that. Aleve. All day strong. All day long. Now introducing aleve back and muscle pain, for up to 12 hours of pain relief with just one pill. The nations largest seniorliving referral service. For the past five years, ive spoken with hundreds of families and visited seniorcare communities around the country. And ive got to tell you, todays seniorliving communities are better than ever. These days, there are amazing amenities, like movie theaters, Exercise Rooms and swimming pools,
public cafes, bars, and bistros, even petcare services. And nobody understands your options like the advisers at a Place For Mom. These are local, expert advisers that will partner with you to find the Perfect Place and determine the right level of care, whether thats just a helping hand or fulltime memory care. Best of all, its a free service. There is never any cost to you. Senior living has never been better, and theres never been an easier way to get great advice. Call today. A Place For Mom you know your family, we know senior living. Together well make the right choice. Keep it comin love. If you keep on eating, well keep it comin. All you can eat riblets and tenders at applebees. Now thats eatin good in the neighborhood. Ashley parker. Barbara, take us through some of the more important moments of todays testimony. Reporter well, some of the testimony that rick gates gave was very tedious, walking through financial documents. They showed him emails, bank records, invoices and other things, which corroborated his testimony. He kind of connected the dots from all the things weve seen that shows Paul Manafort was using earnings hidden in Bank Accounts to pay his own expenses. When the money ran out, he started engaging in bank fraud because he needed cash. I thought that went very well. Some of the things more interesting, once Paul Manafort had left his job in the trump administration, he used rick gates to try to get him favors like getting a lender of his a position on the council of economic advisers and even to be considered for secretary of the army. Im reading some of your notes about the body hang wage between Paul Manafort and his onetime deputy rick gates. Tell us about that. Reporter yeah, its really interesting. When gates is testifying, he never looked at manafort, he looks at the lawyers and the jury. But manafort himself stairs directly at rick gates, you might say Staring Daggers at him. From time to time, the judge calls the lawyers up, and rick gates is just left there dangling in the wind sitting alone awkwardly, not knowing quite where to look. Manafort continues to stair at him, and gates looks around the room, waiting toer this awkward silence to end. I understand that all of the assurances the president was given about how this trial would have nothing to do with him have been erased in Robert Muellers prosecutors and the idea that hes seeing the kinds of questions and the threads that could be pulled through if the curtain were pulled back on the vast neness of the entire investigation, news that you and Robert Costa Have reported today that Rudy Giuliani is getting ready to get ready to respond,
sort of, to rebuff the latest offer from the special counsel for an interview. See any connection . Reporter well, of course. The president , you know, the people in his orbit are watching this trial theglued to it. F